[Board] USGIF Conference and diatribe on where we are heading

[Michael P. Gerlek]

Hmm.  I'm interested in exploring this idea of making OSGeo more of an umbrella organization, under which we might have entities like local chapters and organizations like Mark's notion of a US-focused, defense/govt focused professional organization.

Something like that could allow us to keep OSGeo as a relatively light-weight, fully international body, and yet allows maximal flexibility for others with specific interest areas and needs to pursue them.  Specifically such as the US defense world, which I know some in "OSGeo International" would not be interested in directly supporting.

Such a model would of course require the subsidiary organization to do some sort of revenue sharing with the international parent body.

Hmmm......

-mpg


> -----Original Message-----
> From: board-bounces at lists.osgeo.org [mailto:board-bounces at lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Arnulf Christl
> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 11:05 PM
> To: board at lists.osgeo.org
> Subject: Re: [Board] USGIF Conference and diatribe on where we are heading
> 
> Mark,
> thanks for this detailed report and your thoughts. Let me answer to a
> few points you raise and share my ideas about OSGeo's future that I have
> nursed since our last f2f meeting in Denver. It will take some time so
> please bear with me.
> 
> On 10/25/2011 11:54 PM, Mark Lucas wrote:
> > Just got back from the 2011 Geoint Conference in San Antonio Texas.
> > http://geoint2011.com/
> >
> > The USGIF is the conference for geospatial intelligence in the US.  This
> > year there were over 5000 attendees (138 from overseas- mostly foreign
> > military).
> >
> > There over 250  booths and paying sponsors (> 100,000 sq ft of exhibit
> > space) .  They have built this organization up to support a full time
> > staff, multiple events throughout the year, media publications etc.
> > http://www.gotgeoint.com/
> >
> > For the first time, we were able to get on the agenda with an OSS panel.
> > http://geointv.com/archive/geoint-2011-breakout-demonstration-of-military-relevant-open-source-geospatial-software/
> 
> This is great to see. Was OSGeo represented with a booth? Right now I am
> at the OSGeo booth in Seoul at the SmartKorea event, a trade fair with
> some 100 exhibitors from a dozen countries. The trade fair, convention
> and conference is co-organized by the Korean Ministry of Transport and
> others (please check for yourself - it really is a big event). The OSGeo
> booth has been organized by Mr. Sanghee Shin and is sponsored by the
> Korean Local Chapter [1], mainly through his company GRIDA who provide
> know-how and consulting using Open Source software tools. Tomorrow they
> will also hold FOSS4G Korea [2], the local chapter's annual conference
> taking place at the same venue. It is fascinating to see so much
> activity around OSGeo and FOSS4G here. Interest by the government,
> academia and private sector here is building up a lot of momentum.
> 
> I also met with the organizers of the global FIG conference [3] here
> which will take place in Malaysia in 2014. We have talked about
> co-organizing and Open Source track with OSGeo and will also try to have
> a booth and so on.
> 
> This is just to document that there are things going on outside of what
> we typically see.
> 
> > Open source software is suddenly interesting because of dramatic budget
> > cuts that are planned for most of the agencies.
> 
> ...which in my opinion is always a difficult path to star from. I know -
> this is a great chance and I do not want to downplay it, but I also
> think that we have done a pretty good job of making a pitch for Open
> Source explicitly *without* the focus on cost alone, but all the other
> arguments.
> 
> > Most of the presentations are online at: http://geointv.com/
> 
> Some of the presentations were already on Twitter, great to see so much
> positive things going on. We will have to make sure that they are
> collected as testimonials and are readily accessible for interested
> OSGeo members to make a pitch at other events.
> 
> > NSA and NGA both made announcements related to their focus on open
> > source software.
> >
> > As the US government shows increasing interest in open source software
> > solutions the existing contractors will try to align themselves with
> > those capabilities.
> >
> > Unfortunately, this comes at a time when the OSGeo has stepped back from
> > a core staff and is uncertain about holding annual NA conferences.
> 
> My understanding is different. Instead, to me it seems like this will be
> the *first* year where NA will actually "dare" to have it's own
> conference. This is great and I am all for supporting it. If you
> recollect I explicitly asked at the AGM whether someone would volunteer
> to organize it and someone stood up.
> 
> >  Indeed, there almost seems to be a reluctance to focus on raising
> > revenue for the organization - instead focusing on how to allocate what
> > we have to code sprints, travel, etc.
> 
> I think you got this wrong - nobody is saying that we should refrain
> from collecting more funds to be able to do more. Instead (at least I
> am) desperate to get going again and suggested to restart the Funding
> Committee. But our set up so far did not work out to actually achieve
> this goal which is why we changed it.
> 
> > We want to support the building of open source geospatial software.  I
> > would contend that we can do more if we (the board) focus on running the
> > organization more like a business.
> 
> As Tim I disagree here. Yes, some aspects of running a business can and
> should be applied to OSGeo but I do not think that it should become a
> business-like operation. I see OSGeo global or international (let's
> finally find a name for this) more like a UN like structure, ideally
> without a big budget. In my opinion we should focus on the Local
> Chapters to do this in whatever way is appropriate for it's cultural
> surrounding. Again - this is something where North America has not been
> at the front of things due to (absolutely understandable) reasons that
> were mentioned here before. One of the most important aspects is
> language (anything you do in English seems to compete with OSGeo Int'l)
> but also the fact that OSGeo is incorporated in the US.
> 
> > We already do a great job on supporting development.  If we add more
> > attention to business models I believe that we have a window of
> > opportunity to attract sponsorship from some of the many players that
> > already support USGIF.  If the US government continues to move towards
> > OSS, many contractors will want to brand themselves with an OSS
> > approach, resources, development and operational support.
> 
> This type of thing is happening all over the world right now - but with
> very different approaches which is a tribute to the different cultural
> backgrounds and the big difference we can see in local markets.
> 
> > If we do not focus on this we will simply lose the opportunity to USGIF,
> > MIL-OSS, OSFA, OSSI or other organizations that will aggressively step
> > forward.
> 
> Not sure about "aggressively". I do not think this appropriate for our
> organization. Pushing the agenda it with a clearly laid out plan and
> potentially staff, yes. But from all that I can tell this is something
> that the local chapter of North America (or even the US only) can an
> should pursue best.
> 
> > In either case OSGeo projects will become a valuable resource.  As I
> > mentioned before, I was able to convince RadiantBlue to make a $30k
> > investment as a platinum foss4g sponsor based on the trends we see
> > developing.  I'd like to continue and expand that support, but can only
> > do that if there is a business case to be made.
> 
> Then we will have to build a business case. But as already mentioned, I
> don't think that it is a good idea to use OSGeo Int'l as the vehicle to
> start this. At this level we are talking international politics - and
> this should avoid an agenda that is too strictly national. What you
> propose to me feels like a very national thing.
> 
> A different take could be that US based organizations make up for the
> largest share of income for OSGeo and OSGeo then distributes this money
> out to the world. But I can already see a lot of discussion on how this
> is supposed to work and it will be a really slippery slope. Also taking
> into account that the US has some inconvenient international
> involvements like export restrictions, visa limitations and in general
> is a high cost environment. For the money that we spent on one employee
> in NA it would be possible to employ 5 or even 10 people from other
> economic backgrounds. To me this makes it almost impossible to make a
> transparent and fair business case.
> 
> > I feel that we have fallen backwards.  We failed to raise sponsorship
> > and revenue in order to sustain and grow the organization.  That led to
> > decision to cut expenses with the removal of the ED.  I get the feeling
> 
> No, I believe you got something wrong here. We have not fallen
> backwards. Instead the largest chunk of sponsorship jut ran out this
> year - as we knew all along since Autodesk started as sustaining
> sponsor. What happened is that we did not manage to attract enough new
> sponsors to compensate for this loss - even although we did have a full
> time ED. Explicitly looking at funding, removing the ED position does
> not put us in a worse position than we were in before. Continuing with
> this position without appropriate funds would have been suicidal for the
> foundation and irresponsible towards our employee.
> 
> > that some on the board are comfortable with the status quo.  It is
> > probably clear that I'm in a different camp - we need to raise revenue,
> > get back to where we can support core staff, and grow the organization
> > on a couple of fronts.  A litmus test for me will be a decision on the
> > annual NA conference.
> 
> As already stated above, I am absolutely in favor of having an annual
> North American event and will support it with a +0. I intentionally say
> "+0" because I feel that the responsibility for this to happen - and
> also the format of the event - lies with the northern Americas.
> 
> > I feel that this is a discussion we should quickly settle one way or the
> > other and I'd appreciate any feedback in advance of the next board
> > meeting.  Either way I'll continue to be a strong supporter and user of
> > OSGeo projects - its just that we all need to decide where we are going
> > to focus and put our energies.
> >
> > Mark
> 
> Not sure that we can settle this quickly, but it is great to see the
> energy to get things done.
> 
> 
> 
> Let me add some more random thoughts. What I have to say might not make
> all of us comfortable - so please approach this with an open mind.
> 
> As you all know I am not happy with the current compilation of board
> members. I highly respect and personally like you all - plus I am
> thankful that you invest all the time needed to pursue furthering OSGeo.
> But 7/9 directors are from northern America and native English speakers
> and the two remaining board members are from Europe. In many aspects
> Europe is very comparable to the US and Canada. Forgive me for lumping
> us all in one bucket but you know where I am getting at: This is not an
> international representation.
> 
> So I have been wondering whether we should break down the current board
> of directors and start again from a different angle. I can see excellent
> leadership and great ideas in the current board and believe that you
> could perfectly well populate a North American Local Chapter - kind of a
> meta chapter. This North American Chapter could then incorporate as a
> not-for-profit (if they see the need), start to build it's own budget,
> have elections, organize FOSS4G conferences, employ staff, conduct
> training events and so on.
> 
> What do you think?
> 
> The OSGeo Int'l board of directors would then be different in that
> members are nominated and elected by the local chapters - however this
> can be organized... This would probably make up for a much more diverse
> board and make OSGeo Int'l a truly global organization.
> 
> 
> Best regards,
> Arnulf.
> 
> PS:
> This has been hacked into a flimsy netbook sitting on my knees attending
> the United Nations GGIM. If you think I have gone nuts please feel free
> to point this out, it may well be that I have been over politicized by
> the last three days here... :-)
> 
> [1] http://www.osgeo.kr/
> [2] http://www.osgeo.kr/3
> 
> --
> President, OSGeo
> http://www.osgeo.org
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