<div dir="ltr">Thank you all for the exciting discussion.<div><br></div><div>In my opinion we definitely do not want to dictate / force projects on how to operate.</div><div>I agree that it would be preferable for our projects to use free and open source tools for their needs and in this case Travis is Open Source (just not that easy to deploy on our own infrastructure).</div><div><br></div><div>The Board discussed this issue yesterday and there is an open motion:</div><div><a href="https://www.loomio.org/d/6xBUHvaV/approve-an-investment-of-5000-for-a-yearly-travis-support">https://www.loomio.org/d/6xBUHvaV/approve-an-investment-of-5000-for-a-yearly-travis-support</a><br></div><div><br></div><div>It would be great if our projects would make the small effort to apply for a budget at the begining of the year (as we call them to) in order to have the money to spend in such cases.</div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div>Angelos</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 8:00 AM, Regina Obe <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:lr@pcorp.us" target="_blank">lr@pcorp.us</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-US" link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72"><div class="m_-35575779080627030WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="color:#1f497d">Even,</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I'm going to say this to save people some time.  I don't think Jenkins is right for GDAL project or at least not yet. It might be useful to augment GDAL testing,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">but I wouldn't expect GDAL to give up using travis.  So the only question is if you are being seriously inconvenienced by the lack of workers right now or is it something you are willing to wait a month or 2 to revisit.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">If you feel it's holding you back, then by all means yes OSGeo should pay for it , and maybe add it as a GDAL/Proj.4 budget item.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">My concern with having brought it up is my fear that people will start thinking they should get into the github/OSGeo.org group and then the pricing becomes exorbitant and starts straining other funds.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I can say for me, I am not happy with having just travis, I want to use other tools gitlab, Jenkins, etc. in addition to travis.  I enjoy tinkering with configuring software just as much as I like programming. I think others feel the same way that travis is insufficient given what people have said and that has surprised me, as I thought I was alone feeling travis was inadequate.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I also think as Mike Ternier says whether we should be in the business of dictating what projects can and can't use.  I definitely don't want to be in that business.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Each project should have a budget they can use for what they think they need, and be allowed to pool their budgets with projects that have similar needs.<u></u><u></u></span></p><span class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Sans Serif",serif;color:#1f497d">> </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Sans Serif",serif">On mardi 1 mai 2018 12:22:26 CEST Howard Butler wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p><p style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Sans Serif",serif;color:#1f497d">></span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Sans Serif",serif">> On 5/1/18 2:39 AM, Regina Obe wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p><p style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Sans Serif",serif;color:#1f497d">></span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Sans Serif",serif">> > I'm sure Hobu will correct my ignorance and rave about all the goodness of<u></u><u></u></span></p><p style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Sans Serif",serif;color:#1f497d">></span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Sans Serif",serif">> > Travis :)<u></u><u></u></span></p><p style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Sans Serif",serif;color:#1f497d">></span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Sans Serif",serif">> My point(s) about Travis are not about its technical non-superiority.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Sans Serif",serif"> <u></u><u></u></span></p></span><p style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Sans Serif",serif;color:#1f497d">> </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Sans Serif",serif">I would not be able to articulate things more clearly than Howard did and due to his experience on this very precise topic, the value of his testimony should be considered with care.<span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></span></p><p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Yes Howard's testimony was very moving and I am thinking about it earnestly.  <u></u><u></u></span></p><span class=""><p style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Sans Serif",serif"> <u></u><u></u></span></p><p style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Sans Serif",serif;color:#1f497d">> </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Sans Serif",serif">Due to lack of recent experience with Jenkins, I can't really comment if it is appropriate for the task. I think it can trigger builds on pull requests, can't it ? <span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></span></p></span><p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">               Yes<u></u><u></u></span></p><span class=""><p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Sans Serif",serif;color:#1f497d">> </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Sans Serif",serif">What about configuration of builds: is there the equivalent of a config file hosted in the source code repo (ala .travis.yml) to which any contributor can contribute changes to the CI scripts:<span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></span></p><p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Sans Serif",serif;color:#1f497d">> </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Sans Serif",serif"> fix them, add new configurations, etc ? If it is a task that can only be done by a select administrator of each project, then we add extra burden on its shoulders.<span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></span></p><p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></span><p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Yes it can via a Jenkins file and that is what we would need to do if we start growing Jenkins yes.  I admit to not having experience using JenkinsFile pipeline approach. That's the other reason I was thinking one instance might not be sufficient as people works with Jenkins a little differently   That said the Jenkins file structure is a very different from travis and gitlab, so travis and gitlab I feel are probably more comparable.  It can also use docker images<u></u><u></u></span></p><p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><a href="https://jenkins.io/doc/book/pipeline/syntax/" target="_blank">https://jenkins.io/doc/book/<wbr>pipeline/syntax/</a><u></u><u></u></span></p><span class=""><p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Sans Serif",serif;color:#1f497d">> </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Sans Serif",serif">But the above is just details compared to a more fundamental difference when comparing Jenkins to Travis-CI/CircleCI/GitLab-CI/<wbr>etc... Jenkins is just a software. Which machines would run it ? <span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></span></p><p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Sans Serif",serif;color:#1f497d">> </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Sans Serif",serif">Has OSGeo a stock of 20 unused cores somewhere to support 10 concurrent builds ?<span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></span></p></span><p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">               I'm not absolutely sure how many cores we have to spare.  We just ordered a new server, and much of the stuff on our old servers will be moved to this which would free up those machines.  Funtoo has also provided us hardware – I forget the details of how many cores that is.  <u></u><u></u></span></p><p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I was also thinking that now companies like Amazon, Microsoft Azure, Google Cloud are making serious money from selling things like PostGIS. With the right recipe for coaxing  we can get hardware and bandwidth since our work will make their product stronger. Since PostGIS relies on GDAL, well it's in their best interest to make sure GDAL has massive amounts of testing.  We need someone with good coaxing skills.  I'm looking at you Mike Ternier </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1f497d">J</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">.  <u></u><u></u></span></p><span class=""><p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Sans Serif",serif;color:#1f497d">>  </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Sans Serif",serif">I don't really believe either in solutions where people bring their machines. I think that was how buildbot worked with the build slaves, right ?<span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></span></p></span><p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I have my reservations on that too.<u></u><u></u></span></p><span class=""><p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Sans Serif",serif;color:#1f497d">> </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Sans Serif",serif">My mention of having sufficiently hardware power is not just a theoretical concern: ironically a lot of flakes I've seen with GDAL and Travis were due to the GDAL autotest suite doing the mundane task of downloading (small) files from <a href="http://download.osgeo.org" target="_blank">download.osgeo.org</a><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></span></p><p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">> <u></u><u></u></span></p><p style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Sans Serif",serif"> and the server being unresponsive due to probably being overloaded by other tasks. I've finally modified those tests to pull from <a href="http://rawcontent.github.com" target="_blank">rawcontent.github.com</a> and those flakes have gone away.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></span><p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">That's a bit of a concern there and something we should investigate.  Sounds more like a bandwidth issue than hardware.<u></u><u></u></span></p><span class=""><p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Sans Serif",serif"> <u></u><u></u></span></p><p style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Sans Serif",serif;color:#1f497d">> </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Sans Serif",serif">And even if you have the appropriate software + the appropriate machines, the crucial human factor as raised by Howard remains. I feel my time is better spent at taking care at the sofware I'm <span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></span></p><p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Sans Serif",serif;color:#1f497d">> </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Sans Serif",serif">knowleadgable of rather than at doing system administration/maintainance work for which I've little expertise/interest, and which implies to be available at the moment when things break.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Sans Serif",serif"> <u></u><u></u></span></p><p style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Sans Serif",serif;color:#1f497d">> </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Sans Serif",serif">Even<u></u><u></u></span></p><p style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Sans Serif",serif"> <u></u><u></u></span></p></span><p style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Sans Serif",serif;color:#1f497d">I wouldn't have it any other way – keep GDAL going and focus on that.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Regina<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Board mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Board@lists.osgeo.org">Board@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/board" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.osgeo.org/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/board</a><br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><span style="border-collapse:separate;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:'Times New Roman';font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;font-size:medium"><span style="font-family:arial;font-size:small">Angelos Tzotsos, PhD<br>OSGeo Charter Member<div><a href="http://users.ntua.gr/tzotsos" target="_blank">http://users.ntua.gr/tzotsos</a></div></span></span></div></div></div>
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