[OSGeo-Conf] [Board] FOSS4G rotation
Cameron Shorter
cameron.shorter at gmail.com
Fri Apr 19 14:00:50 PDT 2013
From my assessment:
We know from FOSS4G metrics that:
* There are ~ 200 to 300 people who will travel to a global foss4g
event, anywhere in the world.
* However, the majority of foss4g delegates are local or regional, in
the case of North America, in the order of 500+, and these 500 won't
travel to Europe, or Australia, or ... to see FOSS4G. Metrics are
similar for the rest of the world.
* There is a proven demand for annual regional FOSS4G events. A global
FOSS4G event would reach 1/3 or less of potential FOSS4G attendees which
multiple regional conferences could reach.
* So if our primary goal is outreach to as many people as possible, then
we are best served by multiple regional FOSS4G events.
* The price we pay for this increased OSGeo market, is increased
marketing costs (in that vendors and delegates need to consider
travelling to multiple events).
* The Open Source business model favours local businesses who can
provide local, personalised services. As such, I think that it is in the
interests of most OSGeo vendors to focus on regional events, where they
can reach more targeted customers.
* And for the 300 odd people wishing to par-take in the "annual
gathering of the tribes", we will delegate one of the regional
conferences to be the global foss4g conference for the year.
Hence, my vote is that we continue to have regional conferences every
year, with one of these regional conferences being given the extra
honour of being called the global conference.
On 19/04/2013 12:54 PM, Daniel Kastl wrote:
>
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 3:01 AM, Steven Feldman <shfeldman at gmail.com
> <mailto:shfeldman at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> When we bid we were concerned about regional events impacting
> attendance at the big one inn Nottingham this year.
>
> this year we have a NA and CEE event as well as FOSS4G. Everyone
> has reassured us that they have little or no impact, I am not so
> confident in a time of economic pressure but only time will tell.
>
> It is difficult to be precise about cannibalisation by regional
> events unless we survey the delegates at these two regional events
> and ask them whether they plan to also attend Nottingham and if
> not whether they would have considered Nottingham if there had not
> been a regional event. Is that worth doing?
>
>
>
> Regarding regional events I would make a difference between events
> that are mainly in English language or some other language.
> For example the German FOSSGIS or the Japanese FOSS4G wouldn't really
> attract an audience, that doesn't speak German or Japanese. Same for
> regional events in Spanish or French. These local events are
> important, because lot of people prefer to hear (or give)
> presentations in their native language.
> A big regional event such as FOSS4G NA though might have an impact
> though.
>
> Daniel
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 17 Apr 2013, at 00:06, Cameron Shorter
> <cameron.shorter at gmail.com <mailto:cameron.shorter at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>> I'd like to hear thoughts from people who organise FOSS4G
>> regional events about the two year global / regional / global
>> rotation.
>>
>> In particular, would large regional conferences such as FOSS4G-NA
>> or FOSS4G-EU or FOSS4G-CEE be interested in only holding events
>> every second year?
>>
>>
>> On 16/04/2013 9:46 PM, Bart van den Eijnden wrote:
>>> I think Barend's suggestion of a two year scheme (regional in
>>> year X, global in year Y) deserves some more discussion /
>>> attention.
>>>
>>> Personally I can see the benefits of this scheme (no big
>>> competition from large regional conferences in the global year).
>>>
>>> Also, does OsGeo currently get money out of the big regional
>>> conferences (such as FOSS4G-CEE and FOSS4G-NA)?
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Bart
>>>
>>> --
>>> Bart van den Eijnden
>>> OSGIS - http://osgis.nl <http://osgis.nl/>
>>>
>>> On Apr 15, 2013, at 11:34 AM, b.j.kobben at utwente.nl
>>> <mailto:b.j.kobben at utwente.nl> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hia ll,
>>>>
>>>> I am not a board member nor a conference committee member, but
>>>> I feel an
>>>> urgent need to give my opinion here.
>>>>
>>>> I grow uncomfortable by some of the trends that seem to
>>>> "logically follow"
>>>> (note the quotes, and yes I am exaggerating on purpose) from this
>>>> discussion:
>>>> 1)- FOSS4G events are there to make money
>>>> 2)- non NA/Europe events don't make (enough) money
>>>> 3)- non NA/Europe events get badly organized (see Beijng)
>>>>
>>>> Proposition 1 already makes me feel itchy. How can you 'charge'
>>>> FOSS4G
>>>> main event organizers with being a cash cow ("expecting a $50K
>>>> profit") if
>>>> at the same time encouraging (allowing?) other events to be
>>>> organised that
>>>> almost certainly will cannabilise the main event (Foss4G-NA,
>>>> FOSS4g CEE)
>>>> on which events you put no obligation to make money? I think we
>>>> need a
>>>> two-year cycle: one year the main conference and other years
>>>> regional ones
>>>> (i.e. ones actively supported by OSGEO "central", what the regional
>>>> chapters do on their own is their own responsibility).
>>>>
>>>> Proposition 2 is touching a nerve because I work at an
>>>> institute that is
>>>> about capacity building for lesser developed countries. I think
>>>> part of
>>>> OSGEO is promoting the use of FOSS, and bringing knowledge and
>>>> experience
>>>> and enthousiasm about that to the places in the world that
>>>> would profit
>>>> most from it is a good cause that is worth doing even if it
>>>> brings you
>>>> less or no money. By all means subsidize the LDC meetings with
>>>> profits
>>>> from the Europe/NA ones. Call me a specialist, but I prefer some
>>>> solidarity in this...
>>>>
>>>> Proposition 3 is plain not true. The South Africa FOSS4G was
>>>> excellent in
>>>> my opinion, the Beijng one failed because of insufficient control
>>>> mechanisms (either in place or just not followed up on) to
>>>> check on a
>>>> local organisation that chooses to do its own thing completely
>>>> independent
>>>> of 'OSGEO central'. Could have happened with self-centered
>>>> stubborn Dutch
>>>> organizers just as well, and certainly at least part of the
>>>> blame should
>>>> be on the 'OSGEO central' shoulders...
>>>>
>>>> Yours truly,
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Barend Köbben
>>>> Senior Lecturer, ITC - University of Twente,
>>>> Faculty of Geo-Information Science and Earth Observation
>>>> PO Box 217, 7500AE Enschede (The Netherlands)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 13-04-13 14:30, "Cameron Shorter" <cameron.shorter at gmail.com
>>>> <mailto:cameron.shorter at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Frank,
>>>>> I agree that a compelling proposal should include meeting foss4g
>>>>> financial expectations.
>>>>>
>>>>> For the record, the last board meeting discussed changing
>>>>> guidelines for
>>>>> foss4g budgets from expecting a $20K profit under conservative
>>>>> estimates,
>>>>> to a $50K profit. (This would typically result in a $100K+
>>>>> profit under
>>>>> expected conditions).
>>>>>
>>>>> David Bitner, pointed out that a $100K profit spread across 1000
>>>>> attendees equates to $100 extra per delegate, which is a good
>>>>> point, but
>>>>> should be tempered against the variability of FOSS4G
>>>>> attendees, and the
>>>>> high impact on profits this has. Looking back at
>>>>> an old foss4g budget, I extrapolated some profit figures:
>>>>>
>>>>> Attendees: Profit
>>>>> 1000: $58K
>>>>> 900: $35K
>>>>> 800: $11K
>>>>> 700: -$11K
>>>>> 600: -$35K
>>>>> 500: -$58K
>>>>>
>>>>> While I made some gross generalisations in my extrapolation,
>>>>> the take
>>>>> home message is that fixed costs of a large conference such as
>>>>> FOSS4G are
>>>>> very high, and consequently, a small percentage increase or
>>>>> decrease in
>>>>> attendance has high impact on profitability.
>>>>> So if we want to ensure a worst case scenario of 500 delegates
>>>>> will break
>>>>> even, then we should expect to make a $110K profit for an expected
>>>>> attendance of 1000.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 13/04/13 08:10, Frank Warmerdam wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Cameron,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I feel this question ties into the expected revenue to some
>>>>> degree. I'm
>>>>> personally fine with your suggestion with the caveat that we
>>>>> should
>>>>> expect a "compelling proposal" to meet our revenue generation
>>>>> guidelines
>>>>> which is (IMHO) going to be hard
>>>>> to do if aim for $50K revenue in the conservative case.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm also fairly flexible on this who issue, but I *feel* like
>>>>> every time
>>>>> we have a revenue discussion we come up with one set of
>>>>> conclusions, but
>>>>> somehow we fail to actually apply those conclusion when setting
>>>>> requirements for the conference.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>> Frank
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 2:24 PM, Cameron Shorter
>>>>> <cameron.shorter at gmail.com <mailto:cameron.shorter at gmail.com>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> In the last board meeting, the question was raised about
>>>>> global FOSS4G
>>>>> rotation.
>>>>>
>>>>> we currently have a 3 way rotation policy: Europe 2013 / North
>>>>> America
>>>>> 2014 / Rest of world 2015
>>>>>
>>>>> It has been suggested that we should revisit this rotation
>>>>> policy, and
>>>>> consider:
>>>>>
>>>>> Europe / North America / Europe / North America
>>>>>
>>>>> Reasons:
>>>>> * Previous global FOSS4G events have attracted more people and
>>>>> been more
>>>>> lucrative in Europe / North America
>>>>> * Europe/North America could be argued to be less financially
>>>>> risky. Our
>>>>> one cancelled FOSS4G was in China in 2012.
>>>>> * FOSS4G (global and regional) events traditionally draw half
>>>>> their
>>>>> attendance from the local region. Europe and North America
>>>>> both have
>>>>> large populations with established OSGeo communities.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm in favour of continuing our current 3 way rotation, on the
>>>>> proviso
>>>>> that there are proven OSGeo communities outside of NA/Europe.
>>>>> By proven,
>>>>> I'd suggest that we would consider regions which have already
>>>>> successfully staged a FOSS4G regional event (or similar)
>>>>> and who can put together a compelling justification that they can
>>>>> attract comparable attendees and sponsors to Europe/North America.
>>>>>
>>>>> Looking at:
>>>>> http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Live_GIS_History
>>>>> <http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Live_GIS_History>
>>>>> <http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Live_GIS_History>
>>>>> I see that there have previously been regional FOSS4G events in:
>>>>> Argentina
>>>>> India
>>>>> Korea
>>>>> Malaysia
>>>>> Japan
>>>>>
>>>>> So for 2015, I'd suggest that our FOSS4G pre qualification
>>>>> should invite
>>>>> responses from "rest of the world" and Europe, but we should
>>>>> give a
>>>>> preference to "rest of world" assuming they can provide a
>>>>> compelling
>>>>> proposal which is likely to attract similar success
>>>>> to past European and North American conferences.
>>>>>
>>>>> Generalising the rule. Our rotation policy should be:
>>>>>
>>>>> * We give a strong preference to a region which hasn't had
>>>>> FOSS4G for 2
>>>>> years
>>>>> * We next consider the region which had FOSS4G 2 years ago
>>>>> * Only as a last resort would we consider a region which had
>>>>> FOSS4G last
>>>>> year
>>>>>
>>>>> Regions are considered as: Europe / North America / Other
>>>>> locations
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Cameron Shorter
>>>>> Geospatial Solutions Manager
>>>>> Tel:
>>>>> +61 (0)2 8570 5050 <tel:%2B61%20%280%292%208570%205050>
>>>>> <tel:%2B61%20%280%292%208570%205050>
>>>>> Mob:
>>>>> +61 (0)419 142 254 <tel:%2B61%20%280%29419%20142%20254>
>>>>> <tel:%2B61%20%280%29419%20142%20254>
>>>>>
>>>>> Think Globally, Fix Locally
>>>>> Geospatial Solutions enhanced with Open Standards and Open Source
>>>>> http://www.lisasoft.com <http://www.lisasoft.com/>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Board mailing list
>>>>> Board at lists.osgeo.org <mailto:Board at lists.osgeo.org>
>>>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/board
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> ---------------------------------------+----------------------------------
>>>>> ----
>>>>> I set the clouds in motion - turn up | Frank Warmerdam,
>>>>> warmerdam at pobox.com <mailto:warmerdam at pobox.com>
>>>>> <mailto:warmerdam at pobox.com> <mailto:warmerdam at pobox.com>
>>>>> light and sound - activate the windows |
>>>>> http://pobox.com/~warmerdam <http://pobox.com/%7Ewarmerdam>
>>>>> <http://pobox.com/%7Ewarmerdam> <http://pobox.com/%7Ewarmerdam>
>>>>> and watch the world go round - Rush | Geospatial Software
>>>>> Developer
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Cameron Shorter
>>>>> Geospatial Solutions Manager
>>>>> Tel: +61 (0)2 8570 5050 <tel:%2B61%20%280%292%208570%205050>
>>>>> Mob: +61 (0)419 142 254 <tel:%2B61%20%280%29419%20142%20254>
>>>>>
>>>>> Think Globally, Fix Locally
>>>>> Geospatial Solutions enhanced with Open Standards and Open Source
>>>>> http://www.lisasoft.com <http://www.lisasoft.com/>
>>>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Cameron Shorter
>> Geospatial Solutions Manager
>> Tel:+61 (0)2 8570 5050 <tel:%2B61%20%280%292%208570%205050>
>> Mob:+61 (0)419 142 254 <tel:%2B61%20%280%29419%20142%20254>
>>
>> Think Globally, Fix Locally
>> Geospatial Solutions enhanced with Open Standards and Open Source
>> http://www.lisasoft.com <http://www.lisasoft.com/>
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>> Conference_dev mailing list
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>
>
>
> --
> Georepublic UG & Georepublic Japan
> eMail: daniel.kastl at georepublic.de <mailto:daniel.kastl at georepublic.de>
> Web: http://georepublic.de <http://georepublic.de/>
--
Cameron Shorter
Geospatial Solutions Manager
Tel: +61 (0)2 8570 5050
Mob: +61 (0)419 142 254
Think Globally, Fix Locally
Geospatial Solutions enhanced with Open Standards and Open Source
http://www.lisasoft.com
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