[OSGeo-Conf] LGBT in Tanzania

Tue Feb 20 04:02:58 PST 2018

Hi Steven,

This is a complex issue and there is no clear answer. There is no win-win
here. Whatever we do is going to be a problem to someone.

In the WIT (women in tech) field we have discussed this several times and
usually the topic ends with the following question: Should we ban
racists/misogynist/... even when they are majority to allow discriminated
people to participate? Or should we allow them to participate... making
life more complicated for discriminated people? What is more important here?

I have a strong personal opinion in this matter, but sure, I am not
objective here. There are countries I can't visit. And there are even more
countries I can't visit and be fully myself, but I can visit if I risk and
keep a low profile.

Getting FOSS4G to "close" countries may help them open. Or not. But what is
sure is that if we organize FOSS4G in some specific countries, some of us
can't go. Not Tanzania, not this year. But this is an issue we will have to
face sooner or later. Or we may even want to avoid travelling to some
countries because, you know, we don't want to be discriminated:
https://qz.com/1166305/world-chess-champion-anna-muzychuks-stand-against-saudi-arabias-misogyny-will-cost-her-two-titles/

This is no minor issue and I am happy we are facing it.

Regards,
María.

On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 12:43 PM, Steven Feldman <shfeldman at gmail.com>
wrote:

> We have never thought about this in the selection process. Should we? I am
> not sure.
>
> There are so many countries that have legal and societal norms that are
> discriminatory against one group or another - think LGBTQ, religion, visa
> restrictions on entry - the list will be quite long.
>
> Just on the LGBTQ legislation there are 73 countries that are shown at
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_by_country_or_territory Should
> we be excluding these countries from hosting FOSS4G or should we be
> providing guidance to our community on the constraints of attending an
> event in these countries? We are committed to promoting diversity but it
> could be that in doing that we limit diversity.
>
> No answers, just some questions.
>
> For 2018 we can ask the LOC to provide security information to all
> delegates (ideally in advance of registration). For future years we need
> guidance from the Board as to how to proceed.
> ______
> Steven
>
>
> On 20 Feb 2018, at 08:36, María Arias de Reyna <delawen at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> At least, I would consider this as a factor: security.
>
> I am used to not being able to travel freely everywhere, but maybe...
> Maybe I shouldn't have to skip conferences because of this. What is more
> important, getting the conference venue on sensitive places or having
> everybody allowed to travel freely?
>
> At least for Tanzania I plan to go, but I already assumed I am not going
> to do any tourism or any walk around besides the hotel, airport and
> conference venue. It's just going to be the conference, which is not as bad
> as it may sound :) At least I "only" have to hide my body (as suggestions
> from https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/tanzania/local-
> laws-and-customs ), which is going to be more difficult than you think. I
> am not used to hiding arms and legs when there are hot temperatures :)
>
> Anyway, this kind of advices are better if they are made by the conference
> organization than if they are made by some embassy. It is not the same
> travelling to a big city than travelling to a small town.
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 9:03 AM, Bart van den Eijnden <bartvde at osgis.nl>
> wrote:
>
>> Shouldn't this be part of our selection criteria for the next conferences?
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Bart
>>
>> On 19-02-18 22:48, María Arias de Reyna wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Mark, any further information will be very helpful :)
>>
>> El 19 feb. 2018 10:45 p. m., "Mark Iliffe" <markiliffe at gmail.com>
>> escribió:
>>
>>> Hi Maria,
>>>
>>> Yes, it is partly. Our LOC is formalising a partnership with HOT
>>> currently, as per an earlier email to the list, and this is our first topic
>>> of discussion. With regard to the legislation, it is unfortunately a legacy
>>> from the colonial times, as someone who had lived there for 6 years in a
>>> vibrant international community, I am yet to see an instance where these
>>> laws have been applied - however, I stress, this is my personal view.
>>>
>>> Our plan is to hold further consultations with the OSGEO LGBT+ community
>>> and I have personally reached out to those in a  position of responsibility
>>> within this intersection for further advice. I assisted HOT with drafting
>>> their initial response [1] to this concern also.
>>>
>>> As the FOSS4G 2018 co-chair, I would welcome that people share their
>>> concerns publicly, or if they wish, privately with myself. But on behalf of
>>> the LOC, I stress that our stated vision in both our proposal and now,
>>> through our website, is to the most inclusive FOSS4G that we can be. We, as
>>> a LOC, are firmly committed to equality, regardless of sexual orientation,
>>> gender, race, and creed. We want to provide the safest possible space at
>>> this year's FOSS4G, setting this out in both our vision and Code of Conduct
>>> [2].
>>>
>>> We will be discussing this in our weekly LOC meeting tomorrow and I
>>> will, in due course, feedback to this list.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Mark Iliffe
>>> 2018 FOSS4G Co-Chair
>>>
>>>
>>> [1] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/hot/2018-Febru
>>> ary/014201.html
>>> [2] http://2018.foss4g.org/code-of-conduct.html
>>>
>>> On 19 February 2018 at 16:00, María Arias de Reyna <delawen at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I'm following this conversation on HOT:
>>>>
>>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/hot/2018-February/014199.html
>>>>
>>>> Is this real? Do this year's organisation have a plan? Is it legacy
>>>> deprecated laws or are they being applied? Do we have a problem with LGBT+
>>>> next FOSS4G? Should we warn the community? Can we do something about it?
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Maria.
>>>>
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>>>> Conference_dev at lists.osgeo.org
>>>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
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