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Hi Sanghee,<br>
You are right to pick me up on my wording of "regional" vs
"international" conference.<br>
And indeed, we the OSGeo leaders should be using positive terms to
describe FOSS4G.<br>
<br>
So let me re-phrase as "FOSS4G should plan for an exciting
international event, which will continue to be exciting, and
financially viable should there be less attendees than in Europe of
North America".<br>
<br>
Every location has strengths and weaknesses, and Korea has many
strengths to highlight.<br>
<br>
The State of the Map is a good example. With a small number of
attendees, you tend to find the people who do attend are the
enthusiasts, the high value community members who make for a vibrant
enthusiastic event. <br>
In some of the more recent FOSS4G events, I've heard people mention
that the increased size of the event has led to a reduction in the
concentration of the community spirit and enthusiasm that FOSS4G
started with.<br>
<br>
One of the other attractors of Korea (and Asia in general) is that
the region is an exotic travel destination for European / US people.
<br>
<br>
My reasons for estimating potential lower attendance at FOSS4G Korea
are:<br>
Europe and North America attract attendees because the have a rich,
populous local user base to draw upon.<br>
<br>
Sydney (2009) and Johannesburg (2008) are both remote locations
which resulting in lower attendance, (and that was when there was
only one FOSS4G event per year, without competing regional events).
Regional attendance was over half of the delegates, with
international attendees previously numbering ~ 200. We are finding
regional events are highly successful, with attendance at a regional
USA/EU foss4g being comparable to an international foss4g EU/USA.
Ie, international attendance at FOSS4G is becoming a relatively
minor percentage at foss4g events.<br>
<br>
FOSS4G Korea will compete with both a FOSS4G-NA and FOSS4G-EU for
international delegates and sponsors.<br>
Based on this, I'd guess ~ 80% attendees for FOSS4G Korea will be
drawn from the Asian region. But the international delegates you do
attract will be very interesting and create a great "buzz" for this
Asian event.<br>
<br>
Metrics from prior FOSS4G events:<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://docs.google.com/a/lisasoft.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Al9zh8DjmU_RdEZoOUtSeVZRVWtKQzV6R2N5ekdSdlE#gid=57">https://docs.google.com/a/lisasoft.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Al9zh8DjmU_RdEZoOUtSeVZRVWtKQzV6R2N5ekdSdlE#gid=57</a><br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/05/2014 3:13 am, Bart van den
Eijnden wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:75B8F870-69A9-4D9B-9398-7CC5DC810179@osgis.nl"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
Hi all,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I agree with Sanghee here that it’s important that the
message to the outside world will be that this will be the
international FOSS4G and not a regional event.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>IMHO this does not prevent us from doing a conservative
budget approach.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best regards,</div>
<div>Bart</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On 11 May 2014, at 17:37, 신상희 <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:shshin@gaia3d.com">shshin@gaia3d.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Dear Cameron,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Most of all I really appreciate your sincere advices
and comments based on your real past experiences. I can
feel your sincerity through your email. As a chair of
the LOC, I also have similar concerns and
worries. Actually I have very mixed feeling with much
expectations and many worries on the FOSS4G 2015 at the
same time. Anyway I would like to share my thoughts on
your comments and advices. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>1. I know one of my biggest weakenss point is that
I'm always too optimistic all the time in my life. I
think your realistic or conservative approach to the
number of attendees will be very valuable compliment to
the planning of FOSS4G 2015. I feel that we need to
prepare the contingency plan based on the worst case
scenario just like you mentioned including 'Half for low
income prices'</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regarding 'Half for low income prices', actually I do
feel that laborers in 'low-income countries' always
subsidize us whenever we buy cheap T-shirts, clothes,
electroinc devices or even enjoy favourable coffee. It's
just my feeling and I don't want to start any social or
political debate here. Anyway as I mentioned in my
earlier reply to Steven, I think 'Half for low-income
countries' could be just symbolic policy that could not
affect much to our budget. Daniel already shared his
experiences about this policy in SoTM 2012 in Tokyo. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>However we'll look over the feasibility of this
policy and potential impact to the budget and then we'll
finally make a decision whether we'll employ this policy
or not. That's why we mentioned employing this policy
should be discussed with OSGeo Board.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>2. I will not consider FOSS4G 2015 as 'Regional
Conference' and will NEVER have such a mindset in my
mind. If I or you or so called OSGeo leaders think of
FOSS4G2015 as 'Regional Conference', that would be the
express ticket to the failure of FOSS4G 2015
immediately, I belive. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If I or you consider FOSS4G 2015 as regional one, our
decision, behaviour and activities will be as such and
limited, fixed at the regional level. And if you, OSGeo
leaders, have a mindset that FOSS4G 2015 is a regional
conference, and then your mindset will give very
negative sign and effects to general OSGeo guys. That is
human. Who will want to attend the International FOSS4G
that is treated and regarded as regional event after
paying lots of airfares and hotel expenses? They'd
better attend their continent's own regional conference.
Also sponsors will be very reluctant to support us, if
they heard FOSS4G 2015 is treated as regional one by
OSGeo leaders. I always believe that our mindset
eventually affect our activities and results in the
final results. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I know global FOSS4G in Asia will be the BIG
challenge to OSGeo and us. However only if we
persitently stick to 'International or Global FOSS4G
2015', and then we attract more delegates all around the
world. That is the power and value of "International"
FOSS4G. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>3. Cameron, can I ask why you wouldn't be surprised
if there can be only around 300 attendees at FOSS4G
2015? Because I think your mentioning about only 300
attendees suddenly creates fear and race of suggesting
which number is lowest or worst case among us. So I just
wonder whether you have mentioned that number with any
ground or proof.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We experienced simliar situation in 2008 in Cape Town
and in 2009 in Sydney. However total number of attendees
always were more than 400. I felt that your mentioning
about 300 attendees is now accepted as just like BEST
case in the FOSS4G 2015 conference. Look at the Paul's
email now.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I definately say that we need to prepare very
conservative contigency plan for the wort case. However
we don't need to focus our resources and energy to guess
which number is lowest one. Instead we need to talk
about how to increase delegates & sponsors. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>4. I think we are on the verge of tipping point that
we can goup to the virtuous cycle or we can go down to
the vicious cycle. To go up to the virtuous cycle, the
LOC need OSGeo's help from all around the world. I know
FOSS4G 2015 is BIG challenge. However if we work
together to overcome this challenge, we could get over
all the things. So I ask your help and support. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Yep. It would be very diffuclt job for us to make
FOSS4G 2015 successful one. So how can we make FOSS4G
attractive? Let's go back to the basic. Why delegates
want to attend FOSS4G? Maybe for learning, for business
and networking. For learing, we need globally
distinguished big names participation and those are you.
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>There is an old Korean saying, "Do your best and then
wait for the heaven's order." </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We, the LOC, are ready to do our best for the success
of FOSS4G 2015 and it's now your turn. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>With regards,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Sanghee </div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">2014-05-09 22:34 GMT+01:00
Cameron Shorter <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:cameron.shorter@gmail.com"
target="_blank">cameron.shorter@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> Hi Sanghee,<br>
Thank you for your proposal, and I'm delighted to
see Korea submitting a proposal for FOSS4G. There
are a few areas that makes me feel positive about a
response from Korea:<br>
<br>
1. I have been impressed with you Sanghee
personally, with regards to your commitment and
initiative. Chairing a FOSS4G is a significant
amount of work, and requires some hard decisions.
You will need to be strong enough to say "NO" to a
lot of people who will have valid reasons as to why
they should have a discount or something for free.<br>
<br>
2. Korea has run regional foss4g events before, and
that will provide valuable experience and contacts.<br>
<br>
However, having said that, I'm concerned about
assumptions of attendee profile, which will have an
impact on the budget.<br>
<br>
In particular, In your organisor minds, I suggest
that you should consider "FOSS4G Korea" to be a
Regional Conference, which has the added prestige of
holding the OSGeo board meeting, and attracts a
handful of international attendees, rather than an
International conference which attracts lots of
local attendees.<br>
<br>
We learned this lesson the hard way at FOSS4G -
Sydney, where we discovered that less than half our
attendees were international. In particular, the
majority of attendees we expected to come from
Europe didn't turn up. Anecdotally, we heard that
Europeans were saving their money for FOSS4G
Barcelona the following year. And that was before
the successful FOSS4G-NA and FOSS4G-Europe to
compete with.<br>
<br>
Also, be very mindful of the lessons learned from
FOSS4G Beijing [1], which was cancelled.<br>
<br>
I suggest that your conservative break even version
of the budget should assume that you will only get a
few attendees from Europe / North America - maybe 30
to 50. I'd assume that 80% to 90% of attendees come
from Asia, and as such, you should make sure that
these attendees can cover the costs of the
conference.<br>
I am very nervous of the "Half price for low income
countries" clause, as I suspect that these half
price tickets would constitute the majority of
attendees. If you do indeed want to keep the price
down, I suggest considering:<br>
a. Cut costs (use a cheap venue such as a
University)<br>
b. Profile where you expect attendees to come from,
and make sure the local Asian attendees (say 80%)
will cover conference costs.<br>
c. Make sure any half price clauses, if included,
will result in a profit if 80% of attendees are
paying half price.<br>
<br>
Note also, there will be a perception from rich
countries that they are paying to subsidize local
attendees, as well as paying international air
fairs, which will leave a bad taste, and may result
in even less international attendance.<br>
<br>
I'm not sure how many people an Asian conference
would attract, but I wouldn't be surprised if it
were 300 instead of 450. I'd suggest considering a
revised budget which considers a very conservative
number of attendees.<br>
<br>
[1] <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/FOSS4G_2012_Lessons_Learned"
target="_blank">http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/FOSS4G_2012_Lessons_Learned</a>
<div>
<div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<div>On 29/04/2014 3:45 am, Sanghee Shin wrote:<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div class="h5">
<pre>Dear FOSS4G Selection Committee,
On behalf of LOC, it's my great honor and pleasure to submit this final proposal for hosting FOSS4G 2015 in Seoul, Korea.
Please note that some major changes has been made including venue, dates and co-organizer from our first LOI.
I attached final proposals and budget estimation here. However I'd like to give you an executive summary as follows:
1. Venue : Seoul COEX
2. Preferred Dates : 14th Sep to 19th Sep, 2015.
3. Regular registration fee : KRW 500,000(USD 455) including VAT
4. Will organize 'FOSS4G Asia Special Session'
5. Want to introduce 'Half for low-income countries scheme'. For details, see page 24 in the proposal. Need talks with OSGeo board.
We are ready to answer to your questions about our proposal. Let's start the talks.
Thanks and regards,
Sanghee
---
Shin, Sanghee
Gaia3D, Inc. - Helping Earth Sustainable
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.gaia3d.com/" target="_blank">http://www.gaia3d.com</a>
Tel : <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2B82-%280%292-3397-3475" target="_blank" value="+82233973475">+82-(0)2-3397-3475</a>
Fax : <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2B82-%280%292-3397-3478" target="_blank" value="+82233973478">+82-(0)2-3397-3478</a>
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