<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"><html><head><meta content="text/html;charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type"></head><body ><div style="font-family: "Open Sans"; font-size: 12pt;"><div>Hi Jonathan,<br></div><div>Thanks for sharing your considerations! Indeed it is not easy to make all the right judgements. Still I remain trustful in the capacities and judgements of both the LOCs and the CC whom have proven track records in serving OSGeo. After all, we are a merits based foundation, and all we need is trust in one another to get things moving. We are from my experience a pretty considerate crowd when it comes to the sustainable use of resources. <br></div><div>Cheers!<br></div><div>Jeroen<br></div><div id="Zm-_Id_-Sgn" data-sigid="20081933409" data-zbluepencil-ignore="true"><div><br></div><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" bgcolor="#efefef" width="100%"" style="background-color: #efefef; border-collapse: collapse;"><tbody><tr><td><table width="250" border="0" cellpadding="20" cellspacing="0" align="left" style="background-color: #efefef; border-collapse: collapse;" bgcolor="#efefef"><tbody><tr><td width="200" valign="top"><a href="https://www.geocat.net" target="_blank" style="color: #0099cc;"><img style="width: 200px" src="https://www.geocat.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/Logo-Colour_w250.png" border="0" width="200"> </a> <br></td></tr></tbody></table><table width="250" border="0" cellpadding="20" cellspacing="0" align="left" style="background-color: #efefef; border-collapse: collapse;" bgcolor="#efefef"><tbody><tr><td width="250" valign="top" style="font-size: 12px;color: #777;line-height: 1.5"><div>Jeroen Ticheler <br></div><div>E-mail: jeroen.ticheler@geocat.net<br></div><div><a href="https://www.geocat.net" style="color: #0099cc;" target="_blank">https://www.geocat.net </a> <br></div></td></tr></tbody></table><table width="200" border="0" cellpadding="20" cellspacing="0" align="left" style="background-color: #efefef; border-collapse: collapse;" bgcolor="#efefef"><tbody><tr><td width="200" valign="top" style="font-size: 12px;color: #777;line-height: 1.5"><div>Veenderweg 13 <br></div><div>6721 WD Bennekom <br></div><div>The Netherlands <br></div><div>Tel: +31318416664 <br></div></td></tr></tbody></table><table width="237" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" align="left" style="background-color: #efefef; border-collapse: collapse;" bgcolor="#efefef"><tbody><tr><td width="237" valign="top"><a href="#" target="_blank" style="color: #0099cc;"><img style="width: 237px" src="https://www.geocat.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/NRK-logo_Vrienden_van_EN_ON_WHITE_237x150px.png" border="0" width="237"> </a> <br></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table><div><br></div></div><div><br></div><div class="zmail_extra_hr" style="border-top: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); height: 0px; margin-top: 10px; margin-bottom: 10px; line-height: 0px;"><br></div><div class="zmail_extra" data-zbluepencil-ignore="true"><div><br></div><div id="Zm-_Id_-Sgn1">---- Op vr, 31 mei 2024 15:07:30 +0200 schreef <b>Jonathan Moules <jonathan-lists@lightpear.com></b> ----<br></div><div><br></div><blockquote id="blockquote_zmail" style="margin: 0px;"><div><p>Hi Jeroen,<br></p><p>Thanks for your thoughtful response. I concur that there a
numerous geospatial communities around the world, however I was
careful with my word choice: International conferences shouldn't
be hosted in these particularly remote. Run local ones, that's
fine, but putting international conferences in some of the most
geographically remote places in the world just isn't sustainable.
Think about it another way: Will the benefits of hosting an
international conference in these places really be worth the extra
several thousand tons of CO2 they create? I simply don't see how.<br></p><p><i>> It will be up to the participants individual
considerations if that implies visiting a Global OSGeo
conference in Brasil, in Japan or in New Zealand. Or not to and
wait for a global conference that is closer to home. With due
respect for individual perspectives and considerations.</i><br></p><p>Alas, all evidence suggests that humans are not capable of making
this decision rationally. Aspects of the Tragedy of the Commons
come into play here, along with various cognitive biases,
personality traits, etc. Very few people assess societal best
interests when making decisions (and that's ignoring that
"societal best interests" is going to be very subjective and
almost impossible to quantify anyway).<br></p><p><i>> The Conference Committee and the submitters of the
current proposals are, form my perspective, extremely capable of
taking all aspects of hosting a global conference into
consideration, including environmental impact</i><br></p><p>Unfortunately this process remains, ironically, closed. So
there's no evidence to support this assertion; we have no idea
what criteria are actually being used for the selection. Even if
we give the committee the benefit of the doubt, there are
innumerable cognitive biases that will still be affecting their
decision, and we have no transparency into that. A public scoring
mechanism would be much more objective and open. I tried googling
around for examples that could be built from, but my internet is
woefully broken (56k baud speeds in 2024 == frustration).<br></p><p>Cheers,<br></p><p>Jonathan<br></p><div class="x_1622830142moz-cite-prefix">On 2024-05-31 12:29, Jeroen Ticheler
wrote:<br></div><div id="zmail_block"><br></div></div><blockquote><div><div>Hi Jonathan,<br></div><div><br></div><div>Although I very much see where you are coming from, it is
also important to consider that life does not only happen in
Europe or North America. The Oceania and Asian OSGeo
communities are strong and have incredible people working with
and contributing to OSGeo FOSS. The goal of OSGeo is to
promote its use and adoption across the globe. This brings
lots of good IMHO. And yes, that also implies that OSGeo has
set a goal for itself to have a global conference move across
continents in a way that does justice to both the people and
the OSGeo mission. <br></div><div><br></div><div>It will be up to the participants individual considerations
if that implies visiting a Global OSGeo conference in Brasil,
in Japan or in New Zealand. Or not to and wait for a global
conference that is closer to home. With due respect for
individual perspectives and considerations.<br></div><div><br></div><div>The Conference Committee and the submitters of the current
proposals are, form my perspective, extremely capable of
taking all aspects of hosting a global conference into
consideration, including environmental impact. And related to
this we also see stronger and stronger regional conferences
being setup that reduce travel for many and increase the
outreach.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,<br></div><div>Jeroen<br></div><div><br></div><div class="x_1622830142zmail_extra_hr"><br></div><div class="x_1622830142zmail_extra"><div><br></div><div id="x_1622830142Zm-_Id_-Sgn1">---- Op do, 30 mei 2024 16:31:19 +0200
schreef <b>Jonathan Moules via Conference_dev <a class="x_1622830142moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:conference_dev@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank"><conference_dev@lists.osgeo.org></a></b> ----<br></div><div><br></div><blockquote id="x_1622830142blockquote_zmail" style="margin: 0px;"><div><p>As a counterpoint, I'd like to suggest that it's
environmentally irresponsible to even consider hosting
international conferences in locations as remote as New
Zealand, Hawaii, or Australia.<br></p><div class="x_167368264moz-cite-prefix">On 2024-05-30
11:49, María Arias de Reyna via Conference_dev wrote:<br></div><div id="x_1622830142zmail_block"><br></div></div><div>_______________________________________________<br></div><div> Conference_dev mailing list <br></div><div> <a class="x_1622830142moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Conference_dev@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">Conference_dev@lists.osgeo.org</a> <br></div><div> <a class="x_1622830142moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev" target="_blank">https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev</a> <br></div><div> <br></div><blockquote><div dir="ltr">I just want to say to both teams behind the
proposals: whoever doesn't win, please, try again. This
is not an easy decision because both proposals are very
good. I wish we could have both.<br></div><div><br></div><div class="x_167368264gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="x_167368264gmail_attr">On Mon, May
27, 2024 at 10:33 AM Vasile Craciunescu via
Conference_dev <<a href="mailto:conference_dev@lists.osgeo.org" class="x_167368264moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext" target="_blank">conference_dev@lists.osgeo.org</a>>
wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="x_167368264gmail_quote">Dear
Conference Committee voting members,<br> <br> The deadline for voting for FOSS4G2025 venue was
extended! The new deadline is *May 31 12h CET*. This
is due to the fact that some of you (especially Gmail
accounts) did not receive the Auckland financial
proposal that was privately send by me, due to a DKIM
misconfiguration problem. I'm very sorry for the
situation and I kindly ask you to accept my apologies.
Please take in consideration the information submitted
to you this morning when casting your vote. Please do
vote ASAP!<br> <br> Warm regards,<br> Vasile<br> <br> <br> On 21.05.2024 13:22, Vasile Craciunescu via
Conference_dev wrote:<br> > Dear voting members of OSGeo's conference
committee!<br> > <br> > We are entering in the final phase for the
selection of the FOSS4G 2025 venue [1]. Go through the
great work of Auckland and Hiroshima teams [2]
(Auckland financial details will be send directly to
the Committee members). Then, please please send the
name of your favored location/team via email to:<br> > <br> > - <a href="mailto:codrina@geo-spatial.org" target="_blank" class="x_167368264moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext">codrina@geo-spatial.org</a><br> > - <a href="mailto:adams@terrestris.de" target="_blank" class="x_167368264moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext">adams@terrestris.de</a><br> > <br> > The deadline is May 28 12h CET. You can find the
question from the committee and the answers from the
LOC on our wiki page [3][4].<br> > <br> > Please vote!<br> > <br> > Warm regards,<br> > Vasile<br> > <br> > <br> > [1] <a href="https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/FOSS4G_2025_Bid_Process" target="_blank" class="x_167368264moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext">https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/FOSS4G_2025_Bid_Process</a><br> > [2] <a href="https://svn.osgeo.org/osgeo/foss4g/2025/" target="_blank" class="x_167368264moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext">https://svn.osgeo.org/osgeo/foss4g/2025/</a><br> > [3] <a href="https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/FOSS4G2025_Q%26A_2_Auckland" target="_blank" class="x_167368264moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext">https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/FOSS4G2025_Q%26A_2_Auckland</a><br> > [4] <a href="https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/FOSS4G2025_Q%26A_2_Hiroshima" target="_blank" class="x_167368264moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext">https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/FOSS4G2025_Q%26A_2_Hiroshima</a><br> > _______________________________________________<br> > Conference_dev mailing list<br> > <a href="mailto:Conference_dev@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank" class="x_167368264moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext">Conference_dev@lists.osgeo.org</a><br> > <a href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev" target="_blank" class="x_167368264moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext">https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev</a><br> <br> _______________________________________________<br> Conference_dev mailing list<br> <a href="mailto:Conference_dev@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank" class="x_167368264moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext">Conference_dev@lists.osgeo.org</a><br> <a href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev" target="_blank" class="x_167368264moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext">https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev</a><br></blockquote></div><div><br></div><pre class="x_167368264moz-quote-pre">_______________________________________________
Conference_dev mailing list
<a class="x_167368264moz-txt-link-abbreviated moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:Conference_dev@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">Conference_dev@lists.osgeo.org</a>
<a class="x_167368264moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev" target="_blank">https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev</a>
<br></pre></blockquote></blockquote></div><div><br></div></div><div><br></div></blockquote></blockquote></div></div><br></body></html>