[OSGeo-Discuss] Open File Formats and ProprietaryAlgorithms[SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

Fri Aug 21 08:27:13 PDT 2009

Thanks for the information Michael. I am downloading Opticks right now.
:]

I also found this Java library for JP2, thought I'm not sure how
complete/up-to-date it is:

http://jj2000.epfl.ch/

Maybe we need a JPEG 2000 page on the OSGeo wiki.

Landon
Office Phone Number: (209) 946-0268
Cell Phone Number: (209) 992-0658

-----Original Message-----
From: discuss-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
[mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Considine, Michael
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 8:09 AM
To: OSGeo Discussions
Subject: RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open File Formats and
ProprietaryAlgorithms[SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

All,

Opticks is an open source remote sensing application and development
framework. We recently started the process to add JPEG 2000 support to
our framework. We picked OpenJpeg to add JPEG 2000 support to our
application. They are also open source. We currently support importing
JPEG 2000 files but we are currently limited to the 4GB memory size
after decoding.

Our plan is to continue development and to upgrade to OpenJpeg 2.0 once
they have a stable release. That will allow Opticks to use a pager to
display and support much larger files.

Michael Considine

-----Original Message-----
From: discuss-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
[mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Bruce Bannerman
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 8:15 PM
To: 'OSGeo Discussions'
Subject: RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open File Formats and Proprietary
Algorithms[SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

IMO:

Just another thought on this issue (though we do seem to be recycling
arguments over the years...):

Assuming that I have a very large archive of spatial data, be it imagery
or any other spatial format and that I store my data in a variety of
proprietary formats:

In ten years from now, can I be sure that:

- the company that created, understands, and holds the IP in the 
  data format will still be around?

- there will still be software that runs on the then current
  operating environment, that can read and 'fully exploit' the data
  in the proprietary standard?

- that this future software will work seamlessly with my then current 
  spatial environment?

- if all of the above risks prove to eventuate, can I be sure that I'll
  be able to salvage my data into another format, retaining its complete

  semantic context?

IMO, it is a high risk proposition to lock public (or private) archives
away in proprietary data formats. It makes more sense to use open
standards and formats that are publically available.

Bruce Bannerman

> -----Original Message-----
> From: discuss-bounces at lists.osgeo.org 
> [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Michael 
> P. Gerlek
> Sent: Friday, 21 August 2009 6:55 AM
> To: OSGeo Discussions
> Subject: RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open File Formats and 
> Proprietary Algorithms
> 
> Some clarifications:
> 
>  
> 
> - MrSID has both lossy and lossless modes
> 
> - MrSID is not fractal based; it uses wavelets (and 
> arithmetic encoding)
> 
> - you can't copyright algorithms; the MrSID source code 
> certainly is, however
> 
> - MrSID relies on a number of patents, not all of which are 
> owned by LizardTech
> 
> - reading MrSID does not require any fees; we have libraries 
> you can download, although they are not open source
> 
>  
> 
> That said, some editorial comments (although I'm now wishing 
> I hadn't been so quick to rise to Landon's bait :-)
> 
>  
> 
> - Some of you know the history of trying to open source 
> MrSID; I won't go into that here, except to say that 
> LizardTech doesn't own all of the required IP needed to make 
> that happen.
> 
> - If we are speaking of the NAIP data, then no, it is not 
> exclusively available in MrSID format; it is also shipped as GeoTIFFs.
> 
> - JPEG 2000 is a very robust open standard alternative to 
> MrSID, and a number of players already support it (including 
> LizardTech), but not enough to make it viable for certain 
> domains like NAIP.
> 
> - some of you also know the history on open JP2 support: 
> there is today no open source implementation of JP2 that is 
> suitable for geo work.  Alas.
> 
>  
> 
> -mpg
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> From: discuss-bounces at lists.osgeo.org 
> [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Eric Wolf
> Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 2:15 PM
> To: OSGeo Discussions
> Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open File Formats and 
> Proprietary Algorithms
> 
>  
> 
> The MRSID format is a very special case - and perhaps an 
> opportunity for a new FOSS file format. MRSID is a lossless, 
> fractal-based, multi-scale raster compression format. 
> LizardTech has the algorithms to encode and decode MRSID 
> locked up in copyrights, and I believe, patents. Even 
> companies like ESRI shell out big bucks to LizardTech to be 
> able to read and write the MRSID format.
> 
>  
> 
> I guess I missed the context of the discussion. Is the 
> government releasing certain data exclusively in this format? 
> If so, I think the argument can be made against this 
> practice. The different in compression between MRSID and 
> gziped TIFFs isn't really that great in this day of cheap 
> disks and fat pipes.
> 
>  
> 
> -Eric
> 
> 
> -=--=---=----=----=---=--=-=--=---=----=---=--=-=-
> Eric B. Wolf                    New! 720-334-7734
> USGS Geographer
> Center of Excellence in GIScience
> PhD Student
> CU-Boulder - Geography
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
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