[OSGeo-Discuss] Comparision between MapServer/OpenLayers and ESRI ArcIMS

Tue May 26 21:48:22 PDT 2009

On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 8:38 AM, John Callahan <john.callahan at udel.edu> wrote:
> I've dealt with this question before but not quite with those specifics.
>  Actually, I've had these issues from a different angle: people who already
> have the ESRI suite because their larger company or government agency
> purchased an ESRI enterprise license yet they were looking at open source as
> a serious option.
>
> Hopefully some of this can help...
>
>
> My first thought is that a current ESRI solution would be based on ArcGIS
> Server rather than ArcIMS.  ArcIMS is basically gone (the 2008 Dev Summit
> had ZERO tech sessions on ArcIMS but did have a few migration to ArcGIS
> server topics.  On the current ESRI support site for ArcIMS life cycle, they
> do NOT mention a 9.4 release (current is 9.3.1) although they do for ArcGIS
> Desktop and ArcGIS Server.  The ArcIMS Data Delivery Extension is not being
> sold any more.  ArcIMS could do basic clip-n-ship using the Extract Server
> but that is only available using the old AXL image services and NOT the
> ArcMap services.    I've heard trusted rumors (from some ESRI staff at tech
> shows and conferences) that ArcGIS Server is where ESRI has been putting all
> their energy for the past few years.
> ArcGIS Server (AGS) costs quite a bit, up to 4 cores it's about $32K - $40K
> per server for the advanced, enterprise level.    This Advanced version
> includes the 3D, Spatial, Network and Geostatistical extenions.  It does not
> include the Data Interoperability extension (based on FME Safe and typically
> used for data ETL tasks) or the Image Server extension (used for real-time
> display of rasters in various bands and combinations, like NDVI)
> Extensions are about 4K - 8K each.
>
> The "Enterprise" licenses mean it includes more features plus ArcSDE for
> major RDBMS like Oracle SQL Server.  The "Workgroup" version includes a
> limited ArcSDE for Workgroups.  Enterprise ArcSDE (and therefore Enterprise
> ArcGIS Server) is almost *required* for anything data delivery system
> greater than a few GB and especially if web based.
>
>
> For more pricing, here are a few I found...
>
> https://www.gsaadvantage.gov/  (search for "arcgis server")
> http://www.eyaktek.com/public/ESRI%20Catalog%2006-20-08.xls
> http://www.esri.com/partners/hardware/ibm-advanced-enterprise.pdf
>
>
> For data processing and delivery, like LIDAR processing and anything that
> would result from a model, is typically done either 1) via Model Builder,
> python scripts in the ArcMap MXD document (typically unstable), or 2) via
> ArcObjects coding through the NET or Java APIs (the Interface OO programming
> is difficult to learn).  Recently, quite a lot is done through ArcGIS
> Desktop (ArcMap.)  ArcCatalog is used to fully manage AGS.  There is a web
> application for managing AGS but it can't do everything that ArcCatalog can
> do, critical things like map caching.  (at least that was the case in 9.2.)
>   So, yes, you'll need quite a few ArcGIS Desktops.
> You'll need ArcEditor (~$5K) versions for writing to ArcSDE.  You'll need
> ArcInfo level (~$14K) for creating the models to be processed in AGS.   This
> does not include desktop extensions which run about $2.5K each.  Plus, many
> advanced feature of AGS (that you see in demos or brochures) are only
> accessible via thick AGS clients like ArcGIS DEsktop or ArcGIS Explorer.
>  Remember the initial primary purpose for AGS was was a desktop GIS server,
> like a replacement for the old ArcInfo 7x geoprocessing server.  It was to
> push centralized GIS processing, editing, mobile checkin/checkout,
> geocoding, etc...   Traditional web applications (replacement for ArcIMS)
> came later.
>

This is a most excellent summary John. Consider adding this to a wiki
page that can be regularly updated.

>
> - John
>
> **************************************************
> John Callahan
> Geospatial Application Developer
> Delaware Geological Survey, University of Delaware
> 227 Academy St, Newark DE 19716-7501
> Tel: (302) 831-3584  Email: john.callahan at udel.edu
> http://www.dgs.udel.edu
> **************************************************
>
>
> Bill Thoen wrote:
>>
>> I need to make a case for developing a map and data server using Open
>>  Source software such as MapServer, Open Layers, PostgereSQL/PostGIS to
>>  counter a proposal to go with ESRI's solutions. The client who this  would
>> be directed to manages a lot of land parcels on which some  development is
>> planned. As part of the support for this, the object is  to build an
>> Internet-accessible server that maintains about 800Gb of  spatial and
>> tabular data, that can provide interactive maps of the  properties, data
>> downloads of selected areas and layers in shapefile,  AutoCAD and other
>> formats. It also needs to generate 3D surfaces from  dense LiDAR data that's
>> available. It also needs a database cataloging  system that can be searched
>> for data held in the system. Finally, it  needs to provide different access
>> privileges to various personnel who  will be using restricted data sets.
>>
>> So what I need are some *current* facts about what packages are needed  to
>> do this completely with ESRI software and what it will cost. Have any  of
>> you had to address this 800-lb gorilla problem recently and do you have any
>> advice or facts I can use? I have to  present my case to people who don't
>> know much about GIS so I think price  is going to be my best argument. So
>> far, all I've been able to ascertain  is that an Internet license for ArcIMS
>> costs about $9 - $10K per dual  core machine per year. Is that true? And
>> don't you also need ArcSDE for the  database connection, and some Arc3D for
>> surface generation from LiDAR  and copies of ArcGIS all around, and is data
>> downloading even available  through ArcIMS? What functionality comes
>> "out-of-the-box" with ESRI's tools that meets what I've listed above? Is
>> there something in the ESRI stable that can maintain differential,
>> password-protected user access? How much would still have to be developed?
>> And what about training and staff to maintain the system? What's that cost?
>>
>> If anyone has answers to any of these questions I'd be grateful if you
>> could give me some facts. As it stands I can put those questions out for
>> consideration, but I'd like to know the answers too.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> - Bill Thoen
>> _______________________________________________
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-- 
Puneet Kishor http://www.punkish.org/
Carbon Model http://carbonmodel.org/
Charter Member, Open Source Geospatial Foundation http://www.osgeo.org/
Science Commons Fellow, Geospatial Data http://sciencecommons.org
Nelson Institute, UW-Madison http://www.nelson.wisc.edu/
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