[OSGeo-Discuss] [Board] [Ica-osgeo-labs] The LAS format, the ASPRS, and the “LAZ clone” by ESRI

Sun Mar 1 09:32:24 PST 2015

Carl,

No, it doesn't really clarify it. I think what people are wondering is
"does OGC have a default mission and position that closed formats are
bad for the industry and would it publicly admonish a member who took
actions that ran counter to that position".  I assume that, as a
"member driven organization" whose membership includes the offender,
the OGC will not be standing up and publicly saying "this company is
contravening the spirit of our organization and mission, that it is
supposedly supportive of".

Am I incorrect?

WRT to OSGeo, I think that black letter cases like this come along
infrequently enough that it would not be at all inappropriate for
OSGeo to publicly state what is wrong with the direction being taken
in the world of LAS formats. The only trouble is, it's exactly what
everyone expects we would do, and therefore will be greeted with a
collective yawn. But it is the right thing, so we should still do it.

ATB,

P.

On Sun, Mar 1, 2015 at 8:23 AM, Carl Reed <creed at opengeospatial.org> wrote:
> All -
>
> The OGC is not currently involved in activities related to defining or
> maintaining LIDAR specific modeling and related encoding standards. Any work
> the OGC has been doing WRT LIDAR is within the context of processing,
> visualization, and analytics. Obviously, existing OGC standards such as WCS
> and GMLJP2 can be used to encode and share small, processed LIDAR data sets.
> Feel free to check OGC email archives, project pages, and so forth for
> documentation on any ongoing discussions in the OGC related to LIDAR.
>
> http://www.opengeospatial.org/pub/www/ows9/innovations.html : The thread
> participants looked at NITF, LIDAR, and DAP/OPeNDAP, and investigated their
> re-implementation in an OWS environment with a focus on the Web.
>
> or
>
> http://koenigstuhl.geog.uni-heidelberg.de/publications/bonn/conference/LanigGeoinformatik09.pdf
>
> for examples.
>
> Hope this clarifies the current OGC position.
>
> Regards
>
> Carl
>
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Suchith Anand
> Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2015 4:20 AM
> To: Cameron Shorter ; P Kishor ; Suchith Anand
> Cc: discuss at lists.osgeo.org ; Hogan, Patrick(ARC-PX) ; board at lists.osgeo.org
> ; ica-osgeo-labs at lists.osgeo.org
> Subject: Re: [Board] [OSGeo-Discuss] [Ica-osgeo-labs] The LAS format, the
> ASPRS, and the “LAZ clone” by ESRI
>
>
> Hi Cameron,
>
> Thank you for this excellent suggestion. I remember this previous
> Geoservices REST API issues and discussions.
>
> Patrick - Could you please start a wiki page and input as much information
> as you know on this (ideally in the same structure as the Geoservices REST
> API wiki ). Once it is ready, please email the community and OSGeo Board and
> we all can look into this.
>
> Anyone from OGC willing to help with this?
>
> I think this should be open letter from the OSGeo Board to the whole Geo
> community. I really hope this proprietary vendor (ESRI) will be decent
> enough to not keep repeating these inappropriate actions in the future.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Suchith
>
> ________________________________________
> From: Cameron Shorter [cameron.shorter at gmail.com]
> Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2015 10:47 AM
> To: P Kishor; Suchith Anand
> Cc: discuss at lists.osgeo.org; Hogan, Patrick (ARC-PX); board at lists.osgeo.org;
> ica-osgeo-labs at lists.osgeo.org
> Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Ica-osgeo-labs] The LAS format, the ASPRS, and
> the “LAZ clone” by ESRI
>
> Patrick, others,
> OSGeo and related OGC communities have been successful previously in
> stopping ESRI's inappropriate creation of OGC standards. See here:
> http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Geoservices_REST_API
>
> I'd suggest that if we as OSGeo wish to be effective at blocking a vendor
> lock-in tactic, as seems to be the case, then we should consider developing
> a similar wiki page for the LAS format debate.
>
> 0. Write an open letter (who to? OGC?)
> 1. Describe the issue. (Is there someone who knows the issues well enough to
> describe them?)
> 2. Describe technically why one format is or is not better than the other,
> on both a technical and commercial point of view.
> 3. Is the Open LIDAR format an OGC standard?
> 4. If needed, collect signatures.
> 5. If needed, ask OSGeo Board to present the open letter
>
> On 28/02/2015 11:18 am, P Kishor wrote:
> Thanks Patrick for surfacing this. Yes, this should be opened up for
> scrutiny by the entire community and we should all weigh in.
>
> On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 4:13 PM, Suchith Anand
> <Suchith.Anand at nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:Suchith.Anand at nottingham.ac.uk>>
> wrote:
> Hi Patrick,
>
> Thanks for bringing this to our attention. I believe the OSGeo Board need to
> look into this and prepare a position paper with inputs from the community
> as this has wider implications. This also need to be discussed with like
> minded organisations. We all can provide the needed support for this.
>
> Jeff and OSGeo Board - please add this to the next month Board meeting's
> agenda items. Thanks.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Suchith
>
>
> ________________________________________
> From:
> ica-osgeo-labs-bounces at lists.osgeo.org<mailto:ica-osgeo-labs-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>
> [ica-osgeo-labs-bounces at lists.osgeo.org<mailto:ica-osgeo-labs-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>]
> On Behalf Of Lene Fischer [lfi at ign.ku.dk<mailto:lfi at ign.ku.dk>]
> Sent: Friday, February 27, 2015 6:29 PM
> To: Hogan, Patrick (ARC-PX);
> ica-osgeo-labs at lists.osgeo.org<mailto:ica-osgeo-labs at lists.osgeo.org>
> Subject: Re: [Ica-osgeo-labs] The LAS format, the ASPRS, and the “LAZ clone”
> by ESRI
>
> +1
>
>
> Lene Fischer
> Associate Professor
>
> Department of Geosciences and Natural Resource Management
> University of Copenhagen
>
> MOB +45 40115084<tel:%2B45%2040115084>
> lfi at ign.ku.dk<mailto:lfi at ign.ku.dk><mailto:lfi at ign.ku.dk<mailto:lfi at ign.ku.dk>>
>
>
> [cid:image001.gif at 01D052C3.B23B1060]
>
>
>
> Fra:
> ica-osgeo-labs-bounces at lists.osgeo.org<mailto:ica-osgeo-labs-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>
> [mailto:ica-osgeo-labs-bounces at lists.osgeo.org<mailto:ica-osgeo-labs-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>]
> På vegne af Hogan, Patrick (ARC-PX)
> Sendt: 27. februar 2015 18:48
> Til: ica-osgeo-labs at lists.osgeo.org<mailto:ica-osgeo-labs at lists.osgeo.org>
> Emne: [Ica-osgeo-labs] The LAS format, the ASPRS, and the “LAZ clone” by
> ESRI
>
> Dear OSGEO,
> For what our good name is worth. . .
> Do we have an opinion on something so essential as an open standard for a
> data format?
> Speak now, or forever hand over your wallet. Individual and collective
> response encouraged.
>
> Can OSGEO provide a short position paper commenting on our values? I.e., “We
> hold these truths to be self-evident, that all [data] are created equal,
> that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that
> among these [is Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Openness].”
>
> The LAS format, the ASPRS, and the “LAZ clone” by ESRI
> http://rapidlasso.com/2015/02/22/lidar-las-asprs-esri-and-the-laz-clone/
>
> [First paragraph]
> We are concerned about ESRI’s next moves in forcing yet another proprietary
> format into wide-spread deployment. Forwarded emails, retold conversations,
> and personal experiences suggest that sneaky
> tactics<http://rapidlasso.com/2014/11/06/keeping-esri-honest/> are being
> used to disrupt the harmony in open LiDAR formats that we have enjoyed for
> many years.
> [cid:image002.jpg at 01D052C3.B23B1060]
>
> Thanks much,
> -Patrick
>
> Patrick.Hogan at nasa.gov<mailto:Patrick.Hogan at nasa.gov><mailto:Patrick.Hogan at nasa.gov<mailto:Patrick.Hogan at nasa.gov>>
> Project Manager
> NASA World Wind
> (650) 604-5656<tel:%28650%29%20604-5656> (office)
> (650) 269-2788<tel:%28650%29%20269-2788> (cell)
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Puneet Kishor
> Manager, Science and Data Policy
> Creative Commons
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
> --
> Cameron Shorter,
> Software and Data Solutions Manager
> LISAsoft
> Suite 112, Jones Bay Wharf,
> 26 - 32 Pirrama Rd, Pyrmont NSW 2009
>
> P +61 2 9009 5000,  W www.lisasoft.com<http://www.lisasoft.com>,  F +61 2
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>
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