[OSGeo-Discuss] [Incubator] Should OSGeo accept "benevolent dictator" projects into OSGeo?
Ian Turton
ijturton at gmail.com
Wed May 4 09:57:56 PDT 2016
>From the discussion so far it sounds as all that is needed is for Rasdaman
to designate it's collection of committers as a PSC and carry on with out
all this fuss.
There is no restriction on how many people you have on your PSC if you can
manage them. And it is worth noting that the current PSCs don't spend all
their time rejecting PRs - mostly we just review and check that we have
committer agreements from people.
Ian
On 4 May 2016 at 17:34, Peter Baumann <p.baumann at jacobs-university.de>
wrote:
> HI Cameron,
>
> first, as this word has been used too often now, the current model has
> nothing
> at all to do with dictatorship. What is the suggested opposite, BTW -
> "dictatorship of majorities"? ;-)
>
> If it would at least be called a "technocracy", that I could accept:
> rasdaman
> has always been driven by purely scientific elaboration _and_ consensus
> orientation and respect. Genius rules, regardless where it comes from -
> this is
> at the heart of our scientific progress.
>
> It is the fundamental freedom of science that is at stake here.
>
> I guess that OSGeo needs to decide whether it can accept a model based on
> scientific ethics ...or not.
>
> best,
> Peter
>
>
> On 05/04/2016 02:01 PM, Cameron Shorter wrote:
> > Hi Peter,
> > Are you open to considering relinquishing rasdaman's current "benevolent
> > dictator" governance model?
> >
> > Many (most?) OSGeo projects that I'm aware of are managed similarly to
> your
> > description below.
> > There is usually a sage or two amongst the community, typically someone
> who
> > founded the project. The sage(s) have more experience with the project,
> and
> > their opinion holds greater weight amongst the community.
> > This informal relationship continues even with a formal Project Steering
> > Committee.
> >
> > As you would understand, building a successful Open Source community
> involves
> > a significant amount of mutual respect, and mutual recognition of team
> > members. Community members typically show respect by giving extra weight
> to
> > the opinion of founders, and founders often show respect and trust of
> their
> > community by sharing project governance.
> >
> > If you are a good open source leader, and it appears you must be, there
> is
> > little risk you will loose your current influence on the project. Its
> also
> > unlikely there will be an unresolvable difference between yourself and
> the
> > community. But if there is, and the project forks, whether you are head
> of the
> > official PSC or the new rouge PSC will have little impact on the final
> result.
> >
> > So please do consider adopting a shared PSC governance model.
> >
> > If you do wish to go ahead with a "benevolent dictator" model, I agree
> with
> > Andrea's that we should put the question to OSGeo Charter members to
> vote, as
> > it would be a new direction for OSGeo.
> >
> > Warm regards, Cameron
> >
> > On 3/05/2016 5:46 pm, Peter Baumann wrote:
> >> interesting discussion, with valuable thoughts!
> >>
> >> True, micro management is not the case in rasdaman - on the contrary,
> we are
> >> most happy about helping hands, and are constantly thinking about
> opportunities
> >> for process improvements. Personally, I am so much overloaded that I
> enjoy
> >> handing over tasks, and yes: with appropriate responsibility; in
> practice that
> >> means that we openly discuss pros and cons with myself being "primus
> inter
> >> pares" (first among equals). I have not received any complaint over the
> years
> >> that anybody would not get heard appropriately. Regularly I just need
> to lean
> >> back (metaphorically) and await the outcome of the discussion of the
> experienced
> >> developers, and add my nodding to the group consensus.
> >>
> >> We regularly try to involve the community in such design and
> implementation
> >> discussions (and I am urging devers to do that), but feedback
> invariably was
> >> minimal. Which I see as a sign of trust when looking at the download
> figures at
> >> www.rasdaman.org.
> >>
> >> It may be worth noting that we have installed mechanisms for openly
> commenting
> >> and voting on patches; ever clicked on the Review URL in the Patch
> Manager?
> >>
> >> Actually, it is more about deciding not by election, but by
> qualification.
> >> Concepts and code of rasdaman are extraordinarily complex; large and
> experienced
> >> companies like Oracle, Teradata, and ESRI have tried to copy rasdaman,
> and
> >> failed. Therefore, it unfortunately takes patience for a newcomer to
> immerse to
> >> a degree that allows making suggestions that are fully backed by the
> team. That
> >> said, we do not attach maturity labels to coders ;-), rather the
> technical merit
> >> of each individual contribution is weighted carefully.
> >>
> >> Another constraint, of course, are project considerations- there is a
> contract
> >> behind where ESA, the European Commission, or whoever-else expects
> fulfilment.
> >>
> >> Bottom line, the atmosphere in rasdaman is highly cooperative and
> >> consensus-based, I just reserve jumping in as a last resort. Someone has
> >> questioned the term used in this discussion as not quite adequate; I
> like the
> >> diplomacy aspect raised.
> >>
> >> -Peter
> >>
> >>
> >> On 05/03/2016 01:54 AM, Julien-Samuel Lacroix wrote:
> >>> I found this nice description of the benevolent dictator governance:
> >>> http://oss-watch.ac.uk/resources/benevolentdictatorgovernancemodel
> >>>
> >>> It's a nice read, but I want to highlight this part:
> >>>
> >>>> In many ways, the role of the benevolent dictator is less about
> >>>> dictatorship and more about diplomacy. The key is to ensure
> >>>> that, as the project expands, the right people are given influence
> >>>> over it and the community rallies behind the vision of the project
> >>>> lead.
> >>> Another good one from (linked from the above):
> >>>
> http://producingoss.com/html-chunk/social-infrastructure.html#benevolent-dictator-qualifications
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> they let things work themselves out through discussion and
> >>>> experimentation whenever possible. They participate in those
> >>>> discussions themselves, but as regular developers, often deferring to
> >>>> an area maintainer who has more expertise. Only when it is clear that
> >>>> no consensus can be reached, and that most of the group wants someone
> >>>> to guide the decision so that development can move on, does she put
> >>>> her foot down and say "This is the way it's going to be."
> >>>
> >>> From my (really) naive point of view, the "benevolent dictatorship"
> is a
> >>> do-ocracy were the committers get the right, or influence, to lead
> parts of
> >>> the projects and where the "dictator" is acountable of its decision to
> the
> >>> community. The key ingredients are the same as other governance :
> >>> - Be easy to contribute patches and features
> >>> - Be open on the direction of the project
> >>> - Be forkable
> >>>
> >>> If someone wants to contribute a new feature, they ask the
> mailing-list and
> >>> the committer responsible for this part of the software, not the
> "dictator",
> >>> will approve or suggest changes. The approach is less formal than with
> a PSC,
> >>> but still works the same.
> >>>
> >>> This is of course an ideal scenario, but can be as open as a PSC, I
> think, as
> >>> long as the project as a good "forkability".
> >>>
> >>> Back to the incubation discussion, Rasdaman seems to have multiple
> committers
> >>> and 2 main organisation behind it. What I would like to ask is, what's
> the
> >>> "bus number". Is there a second (or third) in command that could
> ultimately
> >>> take care of the project after the dictator's "end-of-term"? From my
> point of
> >>> view, a PSC of 3, 2 being from the same company, is a small PSC and
> will
> >>> probably lack a bit of variety in opinions. Is there any other key
> >>> contributors that the "dictator" refers to when trying to get inputs
> and defer
> >>> technical decisions?
> >>>
> >>> Julien
> >>>
> >>> On 16-05-01 07:29 AM, Jody Garnett wrote:
> >>>> This is kind of a larger topic than just the incubation committee, but
> >>>> no I do not believe we should. It is a defining characteristic of our
> >>>> foundation to not place many restrictions on our projects - but demand
> >>>> that the projects be inclusive and open to collaboration.
> >>>>
> >>>> I do not believe that the "benevolent dictator" fits this ideal.
> >>>>
> >>>> I also do not think we need to stress the PSC approach as the one true
> >>>> way, smaller projects that only wish to have committers vote on
> >>>> decisions (rather than form a PSC) is perfectly acceptable - provided
> >>>> there is a provision for new committers to be added into the mix.
> >>>>
> >>>> We also have an outstanding request from our president to make the
> >>>> foundation more inclusive. With this in mind we are a lot less
> demanding
> >>>> on our community projects - which provides a way for projects that do
> >>>> not meet some of our ideal criteria to be part of the foundation.
> >>>> --
> >>>> Jody
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Jody Garnett
> >>>>
> >>>> On 1 May 2016 at 00:44, Cameron Shorter <cameron.shorter at gmail.com
> >>>> <mailto:cameron.shorter at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> OSGeo discuss, OSGeo incubation, OSGeo board,
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm hoping the greater OSGeo community will consider and comment
> on
> >>>> this question:
> >>>>
> >>>> Should OSGeo accept a "benevolent dictator" [1] governance model
> for
> >>>> incubating projects?
> >>>>
> >>>> -0 from me, Cameron Shorter.
> >>>>
> >>>> Background:
> >>>> * As part of incubation, Peter Baumann, from Rasdaman has
> requested
> >>>> a "benevolent dictatorship" governance model [2]. While
> "benevolent
> >>>> dictatorships" often lead to successful projects, all prior OSGeo
> >>>> incubated projects have selected "equal vote by PSC members".
> >>>> Someone with better legal training than me might find "benevolent
> >>>> dictatorships" to be unconstitutional according to OSGeo bylaws.
> [3]
> >>>>
> >>>> [1] Eric Raymond's "Homesteading the Noosphere":
> >>>>
> http://www.catb.org/esr/writings/homesteading/homesteading/ar01s16.html
> >>>> [2] http://www.rasdaman.org/wiki/Governance
> >>>> [3]
> http://www.osgeo.org/content/foundation/incorporation/bylaws.html
> >>>>
> >>>> On 1/05/2016 3:56 pm, Peter Baumann wrote:
> >>>>> Cameron-
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I understand where you are coming from, and your
> characterization
> >>>>> is definitely correct. While our process is and always has been
> >>>>> absolutely open to discussion so as to obtain the scientifically
> >>>>> and technically best solution this "benevolent dictatorship" has
> >>>>> brought rasdaman to where it stands now - it is designed by
> >>>>> innovation, not by committee. Just to get me right, our model is
> >>>>> certainly not the right one for every endeavour. Here it is the
> >>>>> most appropriate, and hence we will keep it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> As you observe, this model is not contradicting OS as such, and
> >>>>> many projects run it. So ultimately it lies in the hand of OSGeo
> >>>>> to decide whether they accept the existing plurality of
> approaches
> >>>>> (in this case manifest with rasdaman).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> best,
> >>>>> Peter
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 04/30/2016 10:47 PM, Cameron Shorter wrote:
> >>>>>> Bruce, Peter,
> >>>>>> I've read through the incubation process documentation, and can
> >>>>>> only see one thing which I think breaks our OSGeo principles.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The Governance model includes a statement:
> >>>>>> "In all issues, the PSC strives to achieve unanimous consent
> >>>>>> based on a free, independent exchange of facts and opinions.
> >>>>>> Should such consent exceptionally not be reached then Peter
> >>>>>> Baumann has a casting vote."
> >>>>>> http://www.rasdaman.org/wiki/Governance
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> This is describing a "benevolent dictator" model, which has
> >>>>>> proved to be an effective model for many open source projects.
> >>>>>> See Eric Raymond's "Homesteading the Noosphere":
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> <
> http://www.catb.org/esr/writings/homesteading/homesteading/ar01s16.html>
> http://www.catb.org/esr/writings/homesteading/homesteading/ar01s16.html
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> However, it is not in line with existing OSGeo Incubated
> >>>>>> projects, which have documented a "vote by PSC" as the defining
> >>>>>> governance process. In practice, the PSC community debate
> >>>>>> alternatives, and if needed, respectfully revert to reasoned
> >>>>>> advice provided by the "benevolent dictator".
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Peter, are you open to changing the governance model to a "vote
> >>>>>> by PSC"?
> >>>>>> I'd be comfortable with a "vote by PSC, with PSC chair being
> >>>>>> given 1.5 votes to break any deadlocks. I'd also be ok with PSC
> >>>>>> chair defaulting to Peter (as founder), until such time as
> Peter
> >>>>>> resigns from the role."
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Warm regards, Cameron
> >>>> --
> >>>> Cameron Shorter,
> >>>> Software and Data Solutions Manager
> >>>> LISAsoft
> >>>> Suite 112, Jones Bay Wharf,
> >>>> 26 - 32 Pirrama Rd, Pyrmont NSW 2009
> >>>>
> >>>> P+61 2 9009 5000 <tel:%2B61%202%209009%205000>,
> Wwww.lisasoft.com
> >>>> <http://www.lisasoft.com>, F+61 2 9009 5099
> <tel:%2B61%202%209009%205099>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Incubator mailing list
> >>>> Incubator at lists.osgeo.org <mailto:Incubator at lists.osgeo.org>
> >>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Incubator mailing list
> >>>> Incubator at lists.osgeo.org
> >>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator
> >>>>
> >
>
> --
> Dr. Peter Baumann
> - Professor of Computer Science, Jacobs University Bremen
> www.faculty.jacobs-university.de/pbaumann
> mail: p.baumann at jacobs-university.de
> tel: +49-421-200-3178, fax: +49-421-200-493178
> - Executive Director, rasdaman GmbH Bremen (HRB 26793)
> www.rasdaman.com, mail: baumann at rasdaman.com
> tel: 0800-rasdaman, fax: 0800-rasdafax, mobile: +49-173-5837882
> "Si forte in alienas manus oberraverit hec peregrina epistola incertis
> ventis dimissa, sed Deo commendata, precamur ut ei reddatur cui soli
> destinata, nec preripiat quisquam non sibi parata." (mail disclaimer, AD
> 1083)
>
>
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>
--
Ian Turton
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