[OSGeo-Discuss] Detect and define the coordinate system of gis data with no projection information automatically

Thu Sep 1 16:45:18 PDT 2016

Julien -

The EPSG is what the OGC considers normative. This is because there are
humans in the loop that process requests for new a CRS to be added to the
EPSG database. The humans are geodesy experts who validate the
"correctness" or validity of a submitted CRS. After review, most submitted
CRSs are included in the EPSG database and available via registry
interfaces, such as provided by the OGC. Obviously, the process can take a
while as the humans are volunteers.

The primary problem with a totally open CRS registry is validation. In the
100% situation, anyone can submit and have included a CRS in the registry.
At that point, every entry in the registry becomes suspect as to its
mathematical correctness and geodetic validity. The problem is exacerbated
if anyone can edit existing entries. Then the entire registry becomes
suspect and buyer beware - along with potential liability/litigation.

So, if there is a decision to move forward within the OSGeo community to
provide a CRS registry, I would suggest also providing a governance
mechanism and/or process to ensure as best as possible the validity of
entries in the registry.

My two cents on this topic!

Regards

Carl Reed
Long time geo guy

On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 5:17 PM, Julien Moquet <moquet.julien at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi Peter,
>
> How open is the OGC registry ?
> If data came from EPSG, it will not be really open : they never answer the
> request I sent.
> I think it's a human scalability problem (not really maintained).
>
> The idea is to make an open registry.
> May be it can use OGC registry, but projects might want to superseed it
> when request are not taken into account.
> Github offer an easy way to fork data, for free.
>
> Are you with us so ?
>
> Regards,
> Julien.
>
>
> 2016-09-01 21:29 GMT+02:00 Peter Baumann <p.baumann at jacobs-university.de>:
>
>> Hi Manfred,
>>
>> On 09/01/2016 05:55 PM, manfred at egger-gis.at wrote:
>> > Hello Peter,
>> >
>> > Sorry, I have never heard of this standard.
>>
>> it is not a standard, it is a service offered by OGC (and based on
>> standards).
>>
>> > Is there a existing sample application using this database by OGC? Is
>> there a simple way to get the WKT like:
>> > http://www.epsg-registry.org/
>>
>> the link below yields GML. Other representations can be added - for
>> example, the
>> activist group establishing here might submit WKT representations; better,
>> though, would be a tool for converting from GML as EPSG does updates
>> every now
>> and then. Such a tool might get extended at some time to also deliver JSON
>> representations. Ideally it would do that on the fly whenever a CRS
>> definition
>> is requested. But now I am jumping ahead - obviously there is good room
>> for
>> extension and further services, at the same time avoiding duplication of
>> effort.
>>
>> cheers,
>> Peter
>>
>> PS: note that this service endpoint is mainly for m2m requests, not so
>> much for
>> human inspection. Another facet for discussion.
>>
>> PS2: the underlying service software is open-source (LGPL), might be of
>> interest, too.
>>
>>
>> > To Luís: Maybe before we start with a new datamodel and templates, we
>> should look what solutions exist and collect them in the github project and
>> then decide?
>> >
>> > Best regards,
>> >
>> > Manfred
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: "Peter Baumann" <p.baumann at jacobs-university.de>
>> > Sent: Thursday, September 1, 2016 3:20am
>> > To: "Luís de Sousa" <luis.de.sousa at protonmail.ch>, "
>> manfred at egger-gis.at" <manfred at egger-gis.at>
>> > Cc: discuss at lists.osgeo.org
>> > Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Detect and define the coordinate system of
>> gis data with no projection information automatically
>> >
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> > a public registry of all EPSG CRSs and their definitions is provided by
>> OGC
>> > since many years under http://www.opengis.net/ . For example, WGS 84 is
>> > accessible through http://www.opengis.net/def/crs/EPSG/0/4326 .
>> >
>> > This service is kept in sync with EPSG releases and adds further CRS
>> families,
>> > such as Index CRSs and height CRSs and in future, once definitions are
>> resolved
>> > by OGC, also time ("temporal") CRSs. Arrangement has been made to also
>> host
>> > Planetary CRS definitions of the International Astronomical Union (IAU).
>> >
>> > Repeating (part of) this comprehensive (and authoritative) work may be
>> less
>> > fruitful, but building additional services on top of that might make a
>> lot of
>> > sense indeed.
>> >
>> > my 2 cents,
>> >
>> > Peter
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 08/28/2016 08:39 PM, Luís de Sousa wrote:
>> >> Dear Manfred,
>> >>
>> >> The projection finder project is not entirely clear to me, however, the
>> >> suggestion for a new coordinate system database is indeed pertinent.
>> This was
>> >> referred in other addresses at the conference: spatialreference.org
>> has not
>> >> been maintained for several years; parts of proj4 are not, or poorly,
>> maintained.
>> >>
>> >> Besides a reference system database, it would also be quite useful to
>> have a
>> >> projection data base, including mathematical definitions, map sketches
>> of
>> >> their ouput and some clues or guidelines to its implementation (e.g.
>> >> pseudo-code algorithms). This information is today very dispersed in
>> the web.
>> >>
>> >> Regards,
>> >>
>> >> Luís
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> -------- Original Message --------
>> >>> Subject: [OSGeo-Discuss] Detect and define the coordinate system of
>> gis data
>> >>> with no projection information automatically
>> >>> Local Time: August 28, 2016 6:05 PM
>> >>> UTC Time: August 28, 2016 4:05 PM
>> >>> From: manfred at egger-gis.at
>> >>> To: discuss at lists.osgeo.org
>> >>>
>> >>> Hello,
>> >>>
>> >>> At FOSS4G 2016 in Bonn i talked with Venkatesh Raghavan about my
>> poster
>> >>> presentation "SHAPEFILE PROJECTIONFINDER". URL to poster:
>> >>> http://www.egger-gis.at/app/download/13175253496/POSTER_EGGE
>> R_FOSS4G.pdf?t=1469787116
>> >>>
>> >>> He recommended to start a discussion in this mailing list about the
>> topic
>> >>> mentioned in the mail subject.
>> >>>
>> >>> I also talked in Bonn with Petr Pridal about http://epsg.io. Some
>> days before
>> >>> Bonn i wrote emails to Aaaron Racicot and the mailing list of
>> >>> http://spatialrefrence.org.
>> >>>
>> >>> Please read first carefully on my website, what i plan to do:
>> >>>
>> >>> http://www.egger-gis.at/shapefile-projectionfinder/
>> >>>
>> >>> There are two problems to solve before tools like SHAPEFILE
>> PROJECTIONFINDER
>> >>> can be developed as a sustainable solution:
>> >>>
>> >>> 1. Until today there is no stable free service running like
>> >>> www.projfinder.com by Aaron Racicot, which can be used by all
>> developers.
>> >>>
>> >>> 2. Until today there is no open source database which includes all
>> coordinate
>> >>> system with epsg-code and additionally user and esri definded grids.
>> >>>
>> >>> There are open source solutions like:
>> >>>
>> >>> - spatialrefrence.org
>> >>> - epsg.io
>> >>>
>> >>> But in the detail both solutions have problems to update their
>> database with
>> >>> low costs.
>> >>>
>> >>> Maybe OSGeo can promote a stable service with load balancing on the
>> base of
>> >>> an existing solution like epsg.io including Aarons idea?
>> >>>
>> >>> Maybe organisation like UN, a university or EU (INTERREG) are possible
>> >>> project partners/sponsors for such a solution?
>> >>>
>> >>> The goal is: Tools like SHAPEFILE PROJECTIONFINDER, a Q-GIS-Plugin or
>> a
>> >>> mobile application can use a stable free gis-service updated daily
>> and help
>> >>> gis users to solve projection troubles faster. I think gis users
>> working not
>> >>> everyday with gis will be happy about this solutions?
>> >>>
>> >>> What do you think about my idea?
>> >>>
>> >>> Best regards,
>> >>>
>> >>> Manfred Egger
>> >>>
>> >>> Alois-Schrott-Str. 34
>> >>> 6020 Innsbruck
>> >>> Austria
>> >>>
>> >>> Web: http://egger-gis.at
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Discuss mailing list
>> >>> Discuss at lists.osgeo.org
>> >>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Discuss mailing list
>> >> Discuss at lists.osgeo.org
>> >> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>
>> --
>> Dr. Peter Baumann
>>  - Professor of Computer Science, Jacobs University Bremen
>>    www.faculty.jacobs-university.de/pbaumann
>>    mail: p.baumann at jacobs-university.de
>>    tel: +49-421-200-3178, fax: +49-421-200-493178
>>  - Executive Director, rasdaman GmbH Bremen (HRB 26793)
>>    www.rasdaman.com, mail: baumann at rasdaman.com
>>    tel: 0800-rasdaman, fax: 0800-rasdafax, mobile: +49-173-5837882
>> "Si forte in alienas manus oberraverit hec peregrina epistola incertis
>> ventis dimissa, sed Deo commendata, precamur ut ei reddatur cui soli
>> destinata, nec preripiat quisquam non sibi parata." (mail disclaimer, AD
>> 1083)
>>
>>
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>
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-- 
Carl Reed, PhD
Carl Reed and Associates

Mobile: 970-402-0284

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know
peace." Jimi Hendrix
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