[OSGeo-Discuss] Non-precise framing can hurt the community

Fri Aug 18 16:10:44 PDT 2017

Hi Jody,

>As someone who is very much an advocate of our foss4g community

also here on my side, I promote FOSS4G wherever I have a chance to :-) ... from the scientific level up to governmental level ... 

>> Will locationtech also promote OSGeo projects? 
>Of course, have been doing so for some years.

also on their website? 

>>collaboration has something to do with reciprocity!

:-)

Kind regards
Helmut

Gesendet: Samstag, 19. August 2017 um 00:54 Uhr
Von: "Jody Garnett" <jody.garnett at gmail.com>
An: "Helmut Kudrnovsky" <hellik at web.de>, "Jeffrey Johnson" <ortelius at gmail.com>
Cc: "OSGeo Discussions" <discuss at lists.osgeo.org>, "Sandro Santilli" <strk at kbt.io>
Betreff: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Non-precise framing can hurt the community

Sorry I could not focus on this important conversation - foss4g is a distraction from email!

As someone who is very much an advocate of our foss4g community I find it rewarding to assisting projects adopt open source principles and transparency. As such I contribute time as incubation chair at osgeo and technology-pmc chair with LocationTech. 

My observation is this - both organizations have the mission to help move the dial from proprietary to open source.

I enjoy working with both organizations, and as I have told many people at foss4g this week, it is nice to have different tools for different jobs.

I had a presentation at foss4g Korea on this if anyone wants to hunt it down.

On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 5:57 PM Helmut Kudrnovsky <hellik at web.de[mailto:hellik at web.de]> wrote:>Please keep asking questions.

 I think I've asked questions:

> Will locationtech also promote OSGeo projects?

Of course, have been doing so for some years.

We have been doing LocationTech tour events for years promoting osgeo events. The majority of workshops and presentations at the events I have gone to have been osgeo and other projects - simply as LocationTech has not many projects to promote. 

By the same token osgeo promotes LocationTech projects like JTS.

it's locationtech's turn to answer. collaboration has something to do with reciprocity!

> Who will decide which project or other org will be promoted?

Um, OSGeo has a mandate to empower everyone with open source geospatial. We have taken that to mean OSI approved licenses; giving a wide range of projects to promote, see osgeo live for an example of an existing outreach initiative. 
 >Why not promote projects from any other org?

We do! See above.
> What is the added value for OSGeo to promote locationtech projects?

To better meet our mandate we promote all projects. A real pretty example is navigating the choose a project wizard to processing and analysis and then cloud processing and finding several LocationTech projects (and perhaps the ZOO-Project if I understood there announcement in the AGM).

This is a real exciting area of RnD being explored nub apache foundation and LocationTech projects, and we have not had any of these projects ask to join OSGeo at this time. 

I've not seen any answer on this questions yet.

See above, we have all been a bit busy.

Indeed I have not seen the beta website since Tuesday and look forward to seeing all the content that is being discussed.

You will see above that I am being focused on representing all projects because that is the osgeo mandate.  Beyond that LocationTech is a partner of OSGeo - and we have a closer relationship than many of the MOUs on the wiki indicate - OSGeo is s member of LocationTech pretty much since it started,  Michael Smith contributes time as our the OSGeo representative, and then are many joint code sprints and events such as foss4gna. 

Thanks for the discussion please excuse typos as this email is via phone. 

Kind regards
Helmut

Gesendet: Freitag, 18. August 2017 um 23:42 Uhr
Von: "Jeffrey Johnson" <ortelius at gmail.com[mailto:ortelius at gmail.com]>
An: "Helmut Kudrnovsky" <hellik at web.de[mailto:hellik at web.de]>, "Marc Vloemans" <marcvloemans1 at gmail.com[mailto:marcvloemans1 at gmail.com]>, hmitaso at ncsu.edu[mailto:hmitaso at ncsu.edu], raghavan at media.osaka-cu.ac.jp[mailto:raghavan at media.osaka-cu.ac.jp]
Cc: "OSGeo Discussions" <discuss at lists.osgeo.org[mailto:discuss at lists.osgeo.org]>, "Sandro Santilli" <strk at kbt.io[mailto:strk at kbt.io]>
Betreff: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Non-precise framing can hurt the community

Please keep asking questions. It's healthy and how we (try to) arrive at consensus.  

On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 17:13 Helmut Kudrnovsky <hellik at web.de[mailto:hellik at web.de][mailto:hellik at web.de[mailto:hellik at web.de]]> wrote:Dear Venka, Dear Helena, Dear Marc, Dear OSGeo Community,

I'm some kind of surprised about the reactions and long threads about my question yesterday.

Just back from a long walk along a nice alpine river where I had time to contemplate about it. Therefore it will be a personal and some kind of philosophical note.

In my personal, cultural and scientific background I was educated that asking questions isn't anything bad.

* Asking questions regarding things I'm interested in, to learn more about it ...
* Asking questions regarding things I'm interested in, I'm involved, and where I have some kind of responsibility, to take care that it evolves in a sustainable way ...

citing [1]:

"The third category is Charter Member. Individuals in this category have the same rights as the above Member category, but with two important differences. Firstly, individuals in this category are not self-selected, but rather must be voted into this category by the other Charter Members. Secondly, individuals in this category have the right to vote in elections for other Charter Members, and for Board Members.

    These two factors are intended to maintain the integrity of the Foundation election processes -- and by extension the integrity of the Foundation itself. We use the term "Charter" Member to explicitly indicate that these members are responsible for upholding the "charter" of the Foundation."

As I'm honoured to be elected an OSGeo charter member, this is a high motivation for me to volunteer e.g. this year as OSGeo GSoC admin, to have fun within the GRASS community and to promote OSGeo and free and open source GIS whenever I have a chance to do so... and from time to time it encourages me to ask questions about OSGeo's evolution. So here we are now ...

Community and communication .... both have the same latin word stem: communis.

I like OSGeo's do-ocracy :-) ... but also I think it's now time to rephrase the open source mantra to "communicate often, communicate early" :-) ... that OSGeo is able to evolve in a sustainable way!

Kind regards
Helmut 

[1] http://www.osgeo.org/Membership[http://www.osgeo.org/Membership][http://www.osgeo.org/Membership%5Bhttp://www.osgeo.org/Membership%5D]

Gesendet: Freitag, 18. August 2017 um 21:15 Uhr
Von: "Marc Vloemans" <marcvloemans1 at gmail.com[mailto:marcvloemans1 at gmail.com][mailto:marcvloemans1 at gmail.com[mailto:marcvloemans1 at gmail.com]]>
An: "Sandro Santilli" <strk at kbt.io[mailto:strk at kbt.io][mailto:strk at kbt.io[mailto:strk at kbt.io]]>
Cc: "Helmut Kudrnovsky" <hellik at web.de[mailto:hellik at web.de][mailto:hellik at web.de[mailto:hellik at web.de]]>, "OSGeo Discussions" <discuss at lists.osgeo.org[mailto:discuss at lists.osgeo.org][mailto:discuss at lists.osgeo.org[mailto:discuss at lists.osgeo.org]]>
Betreff: Re: Non-precise framing can hurt the community
@Helmut et all,

Thanks for another opportunity to give the community more insights in what LocationTech (the Eclipse Industry Working Group for spatially aware software) entails and how it relates to OSGeo!

We help co-develop and co-promote OSGeo projects in general (including GPL-projects!) through
- sponsoring codesprints (e.g. Here in Boston tomorrow) and
- co-organising events (e.g. codesprints and Foss4g North Amerika)

Kind regards,
Marc Vloemans

> Op 18 aug. 2017 om 12:53 heeft Marc Vloemans <marcvloemans1 at gmail.com[mailto:marcvloemans1 at gmail.com][mailto:marcvloemans1 at gmail.com[mailto:marcvloemans1 at gmail.com]]> het volgende geschreven:
>
> Dear Sandro,
>
> We (Eclipse Foundation -LocationTech) are 'not against it' ! I repeat; not against........did I mention 'not'?
>
> GPL is approved by OSI, just like the EPL. We are on the same team. The word 'against' suggests we are at odds with each other over this. Which we are not, never have been and never will be.
>
> Our members (businesses, academia, NGO's) work with/on projects that incorporate various licenses. Individual choices depend on 'the right tools for the job'. Developers work on projects and in communities that encompass a wide spectrum of licenses.
> End-users (the ones that fund so many of open spatial projects) determine and decide which tools will suit their purposes. And they love our community's versatility to meet their demands. Thus furthering the overall success of open spatial IT in the world.
> The present full spectrum of projects provides a compelling, comprehensive storyline as is demonstrated by an increasing number of implementations. Worldwide, across industry verticals, profits, non-profits, etc etc.
>
> Hope this clarifies and let's together move forward!
>
> Kind regards,
> Marc Vloemans
>
>
>>> Op 18 aug. 2017 om 11:25 heeft Sandro Santilli <strk at kbt.io[mailto:strk at kbt.io][mailto:strk at kbt.io[mailto:strk at kbt.io]]> het volgende geschreven:
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 09:19:52PM +0200, Helmut Kudrnovsky wrote:
>>>
>>> Will locationtech also promote OSGeo projects?
>>
>> This is an interesting question, especially as LocationTech is
>> against GPL-licensed projects (like GRASS, QGIS, PostGIS)
>>
>> --strk;
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Jody Garnett