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      <font size="3" face="Comic Sans MS">I agree&#44; very good conversation&#44; I&#39;ve already pointed a few folks at it as the same topic has come up here at work on two different projects&#44; as well as a Survey I just completed yesterday for a Federal data provider. I pointed the survey taker at this thread as well.</font>    </p>
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      <font size="3" face="Comic Sans MS">bobb</font>    </p>
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      &gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;Landon Blake&quot; &lt;lblake@ksninc.com&gt; wrote:<br>    </p>
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            I think we were talking about the easiest way to implement saving space. :&#93;<o p="#DEFAULT"></o>          </p>
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            I was trying to point out &#40;and maybe Paul was also&#41; that ease of implementation &#40;now or in the future&#41; should be a factor the government chooses when selection a file format/technology for data storage and distribution to the public.<o p="#DEFAULT"></o>          </p>
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            There are a number of other factors&#44; as MPG mentioned. <o p="#DEFAULT"></o>          </p>
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            This has been a really good discussion&#44; and I will try to get some content about open file formats on the wiki as Arnulf requested. Maybe next week&#63;<o p="#DEFAULT"></o>          </p>
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              Office Phone Number: &#40;209&#41; 946-0268            </p>
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              From:            </p>
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              discuss-bounces@lists.osgeo.org &#91;mailto:discuss-bounces@lists.osgeo.org&#93;             </p>
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                On Behalf Of              </p>
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              Bob Basques<br>            </p>
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                Sent:              </p>
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              Friday&#44; August 21&#44; 2009 11:28 AM<br>            </p>
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              <st1 st="on" personname="#DEFAULT" w="#DEFAULT">
              OSGeo Discussions</st1>&#59; Ivan Lucena<br>            </p>
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                Subject:              </p>
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              RE: &#91;OSGeo-Discuss&#93; OpenFile FormatsandProprietaryAlgorithms&#91;SEC&#61;UNCLASSIFIED&#93;            </p>
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            Can someone remind me again&#44; are we talking about saving space&#44; or making it easier to implement something . . .&nbsp;&#160;:c&#41;          </p>
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            I personally prefer nice simple internal pyramided tiles with indexing&#44; about 10&#37; extra space&#44; and very good performance.          </p>
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            Someone earlier in this thread spoke about some of these technologies being somewhat obsolete what with the new network and bandwidth speeds available for publishing.          </p>
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            &gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;Lucena&#44; Ivan&quot; &lt;ivan.lucena@pmldnet.com&gt; wrote:<o p="#DEFAULT"></o>          </p>
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              But you can&#39;t compress data types other than byte in JPG. Can you do that in JP2K&#63;<br><br><br>&gt;&#160;&#160;-------Original Message-------<br>&gt;&#160;&#160;From: <st1 st="on" personname="#DEFAULT" w="#DEFAULT">Landon Blake</st1>&nbsp;&lt;lblake@ksninc.com&gt;<br>&gt;&#160;&#160;Subject: RE: &#91;OSGeo-Discuss&#93; Open FileFormatsandProprietaryAlgorithms&#91;SEC&#61;UNCLASSIFIED&#93;<br>&gt;&#160;&#160;Sent: Aug 21 &#39;09 12:42<br>&gt;&#160;<br>&gt;&#160;&#160;Paul&#44;<br>&gt;&#160;<br>&gt;&#160;&#160;I was wondering the same thing.<br>&gt;&#160;<br>&gt;&#160;&#160;It seems a little like choosing to drive a Honda Accord&#44; or a Ferrari.<br>&gt;&#160;&#160;The Ferrari is a lot faster and comes with a better looking trophy wife<br>&gt;&#160;&#160;&#40;or husband&#41;&#44; but the Honda is a lot easier to fix. &#40;Try finding an<br>&gt;&#160;&#160;affordable Ferrari mechanic in <st1 st="on" place="#DEFAULT" w="#DEFAULT"><st1 city="#DEFAULT" st="on" w="#DEFAULT">Stockton</st1>&#44; <st1 st="on" state="#DEFAULT" w="#DEFAULT">California</st1></st1>.&#41;<br>&gt;&#160;<br>&gt;&#160;&#160;To tie this back into our original discussion&#44; it seems like the<br>&gt;&#160;&#160;government should be choosing to drive a Honda Accord when it can&#44;<br>&gt;&#160;&#160;instead of the Ferrari.<br>&gt;&#160;<br>&gt;&#160;&#160;I guess you&#39;d really have to crunch the numbers and see if the savings<br>&gt;&#160;&#160;in bandwidth/disk space costs were really worth the compression savings<br>&gt;&#160;&#160;that result from a proprietary compression scheme &#40;&quot;wavelet black<br>&gt;&#160;&#160;magic&quot;&#41;.<br>&gt;&#160;<br>&gt;&#160;&#160;The problem with this is a lot of the benefits that come from the Honda<br>&gt;&#160;&#160;Accord &#40;open image format &#43; open compression algorithm&#41; aren&#39;t easily<br>&gt;&#160;&#160;calculated in dollars and cents.<br>&gt;&#160;<br>&gt;&#160;&#160;Still&#44; this speaks to an important truth I have discovered in open<br>&gt;&#160;&#160;source development: Simple is better&#44; even when it isn&#39;t necessarily<br>&gt;&#160;&#160;faster and smaller.<br>&gt;&#160;<br>&gt;&#160;&#160;I&#39;d rather have code that I can understand&#44; or a file format that a<br>&gt;&#160;&#160;programmer in 20 years will understand&#44; than a Ferrari you can&#39;t drive<br>&gt;&#160;&#160;unless you have a PHD and did a thesis on wavelet compression. :&#93;<br>&gt;&#160;<br>&gt;&#160;&#160;Landon<br>&gt;&#160;&#160;Office Phone Number: &#40;209&#41; 946-0268<br>&gt;&#160;&#160;Cell Phone Number: &#40;209&#41; 992-0658<br>&gt;&#160;<br>&gt;&#160;<br>&gt;&#160;<br>&gt;&#160;&#160;-----Original Message-----<br>&gt;&#160;&#160;From: discuss-bounces@lists.osgeo.org<br>&gt;&#160;&#160;&#91;mailto:discuss-bounces@lists.osgeo.org&#93; On Behalf Of Paul Ramsey<br>&gt;&#160;&#160;Sent: Friday&#44; August 21&#44; 2009 10:36 AM<br>&gt;&#160;&#160;To: <st1 st="on" personname="#DEFAULT" w="#DEFAULT">OSGeo Discussions</st1><br>&gt;&#160;&#160;Subject: Re: &#91;OSGeo-Discuss&#93; Open File<br>&gt;&#160;&#160;FormatsandProprietaryAlgorithms&#91;SEC&#61;UNCLASSIFIED&#93;<br>&gt;&#160;<br>&gt;&#160;&#160;So hung up on wavelets&#44; we are.<br>&gt;&#160;<br>&gt;&#160;&#160;Internally tiled TIFF with JPEG compression and similarly formatted<br>&gt;&#160;&#160;internal overviews can achieve 10:1 compression rates without<br>&gt;&#160;&#160;noticeable image quality reductions&#44; and as an added bonus can be<br>&gt;&#160;&#160;decompressed a heck of a lot faster than wavelet-based formats. The<br>&gt;&#160;&#160;wavelet stuff is k00l&#44; in that there is no need for an overview<br>&gt;&#160;&#160;pyramid &#40;it&#39;s implicit in the compression math&#41; and much higher<br>&gt;&#160;&#160;compression rates can be achieved. But operationally&#44; you can go a<br>&gt;&#160;&#160;long way with the more primitive &#40;open image format &#43; open compression<br>&gt;&#160;&#160;algorithm&#41; approach.<br>&gt;&#160;<br>&gt;&#160;&#160;P.<br>&gt;&#160;&#160;_______________________________________________<br>&gt;&#160;&#160;Discuss mailing list<br>&gt;&#160;&#160;Discuss@lists.osgeo.org<br>&gt;&#160;&#160;<a href="http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss">http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a><br>&gt;&#160;<br>&gt;&#160;<br>&gt;&#160;&#160;Warning:<br>&gt;&#160;&#160;Information provided via electronic media is not guaranteed against defects including translation and transmission<br>errors. If the reader is not the intended recipient&#44; you are hereby notified that any dissemination&#44; distribution or<br>copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this information in error&#44; please notify the<br>sender immediately.<br>&gt;&#160;&#160;_______________________________________________<br>&gt;&#160;&#160;Discuss mailing list<br>&gt;&#160;&#160;Discuss@lists.osgeo.org<br>&gt;&#160;&#160;<a href="http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman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        <font size="1" face="Arial"><b>Warning:<br style="font-size: 1; font-family: Arial; font-weight: bold"></b>Information provided via electronic media is not guaranteed against defects including translation and transmission errors. If the reader is not the intended recipient&#44; you are hereby notified that any dissemination&#44; distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this information in error&#44; please notify the sender immediately.</font>
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