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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Bob,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>What did you have in mind when you said “pre-processing”.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><strong><b><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Landon</span></font></b></strong><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Office Phone Number: (209) 946-0268</span></font><font
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10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Cell Phone Number: (209) 992-0658</span></font><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
discuss-bounces@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:discuss-bounces@lists.osgeo.org] <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Bob Basques<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, August 24, 2009 9:21
AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">OSGeo
Discussions</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open
File Formats andProprietaryAlgorithms</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=3 face="Comic Sans MS"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
"Comic Sans MS"'>Landon,</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=3 face="Comic Sans MS"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
"Comic Sans MS"'>Just had another thought . . .</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=3 face="Comic Sans MS"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
"Comic Sans MS"'>What about setting up a (openSource) tool set specifically for
handling Raster images for pre-processing purposes. Might even be
something that publishers could re-distribute with their datasets, as in this
processor stack works with our data.</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=3 face="Comic Sans MS"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
"Comic Sans MS"'>Just thinking on the run here, no detail (or ramifications
though through [at all :c) ])</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=3 face="Comic Sans MS"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
"Comic Sans MS"'>bobb</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
<br>
>>> "Bob Basques" <Bob.Basques@ci.stpaul.mn.us> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid #050505 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 5.0pt;
margin-left:11.25pt'>
<p style='background:#F3F3F3'><font size=3 face="Comic Sans MS"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'>Landon,</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p style='background:#F3F3F3'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p style='background:#F3F3F3'><font size=3 face="Comic Sans MS"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'>>It would be
interesting to come up with a standard structure on a computer file system that
could be used to accessed tiled raster data, if this hasn’t been done already.
One the file system structure was defined, it would be fairly easy to write
open source software that accessed this structure and provided individual tiles
as a service to desktop GIS applications. </span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p style='background:#F3F3F3'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p style='background:#F3F3F3'><font size=3 face="Comic Sans MS"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'>Hmm, interesting angle, to
expand on your idea a bit more, what about a processing suite (or set of
suites) that process data for different types of uses, visual display, DEM
analysis, etc. Each "processor" stack would/could have
it's own rules associated with data resolution vs files sizes, etc. </span></font>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style='background:#F3F3F3'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p style='background:#F3F3F3'><font size=3 face="Comic Sans MS"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'>bobb</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:#F3F3F3'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p style='background:#F3F3F3'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
<br>
>>> "<st1:PersonName w:st="on">Landon Blake</st1:PersonName>"
<lblake@ksninc.com> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid #050505 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 5.0pt;
margin-left:11.25pt'>
<div>
<p style='background:#F3F3F3'><!--ppd1000033--><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p style='background:#F3F3F3'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Bobb wrote: “Here's my reasoning, we're never
(ever?) going to hit the top end on how big files ever get, resolution just
keeps going up and up, so there is always going to be some upper limit that
will need to be breached somehow. Working out a proper method for
segregating the data up front (dare I say it), as some sort of standard (which
can be adjusted as time passes) will make everything work nicely, then all will
work with available tools when they are available, if tools to handle larger
datasets become available, and the community feels there is a reason/need that
these new larger files need to be handled, then they get to change the
standard.”<o p="#DEFAULT"></o> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p style='background:#F3F3F3'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p style='background:#F3F3F3'><o p="#DEFAULT"><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> </o>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p style='background:#F3F3F3'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p style='background:#F3F3F3'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>I agree with some of the points you are making in your
argument Bobb. There is certainly a practical limit to how much you data you
should put in a single file. That is why we have lumber cut to 8 foot lengths.
You don’t need a flatbed semi to carry it to your house. :]<o p="#DEFAULT"></o>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p style='background:#F3F3F3'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p style='background:#F3F3F3'><o p="#DEFAULT"><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> </o>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p style='background:#F3F3F3'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p style='background:#F3F3F3'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>When you refer to a standard for splitting data up
front, what do you mean?<o p="#DEFAULT"></o> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p style='background:#F3F3F3'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p style='background:#F3F3F3'><o p="#DEFAULT"><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> </o>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p style='background:#F3F3F3'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p style='background:#F3F3F3'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>It would be interesting to come up with a standard
structure on a computer file system that could be used to accessed tiled raster
data, if this hasn’t been done already. One the file system structure was
defined, it would be fairly easy to write open source software that accessed
this structure and provided individual tiles as a service to desktop GIS
applications.<o p="#DEFAULT"></o> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p style='background:#F3F3F3'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p style='background:#F3F3F3'><o p="#DEFAULT"><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> </o>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p style='background:#F3F3F3'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p style='background:#F3F3F3'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Landon<o p="#DEFAULT"></o> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal align=center style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;
text-align:center;background:#F3F3F3'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;
text-align:center;background:#F3F3F3'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
</div>
<p style='background:#F3F3F3'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p style='background:#F3F3F3'><b><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-weight:bold'>From: <o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style='background:#F3F3F3'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>discuss-bounces@lists.osgeo.org
[mailto:discuss-bounces@lists.osgeo.org] <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p style='background:#F3F3F3'><b><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of <o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>
</div>
<p style='background:#F3F3F3'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Bob Basques<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p style='background:#F3F3F3'><b><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-weight:bold'>Sent: <o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>
</div>
<p style='background:#F3F3F3'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Monday, August 24, 2009 7:33 AM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p style='background:#F3F3F3'><b><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-weight:bold'>To: <o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>
</div>
<p style='background:#F3F3F3'><st1:PersonName w:st="on"><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>OSGeo Discussions</span></font></st1:PersonName><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p style='background:#F3F3F3'><b><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-weight:bold'>Subject: <o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>
</div>
<p style='background:#F3F3F3'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open File Formats and
ProprietaryAlgorithms <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<p style='background:#F3F3F3'><o p="#DEFAULT"></o><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p style='background:#F3F3F3'><o p="#DEFAULT"><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> </o>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p style='background:#F3F3F3'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p style='background:#F3F3F3'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>All, <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p style='background:#F3F3F3'><o p="#DEFAULT"></o><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p style='background:#F3F3F3'><o p="#DEFAULT"><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> </o>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p style='background:#F3F3F3'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p style='background:#F3F3F3'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Ok, I'm probably going to get someone irritated, but
here goes . . <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p style='background:#F3F3F3'><o p="#DEFAULT"></o><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p style='background:#F3F3F3'><o p="#DEFAULT"><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> </o>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p style='background:#F3F3F3'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p style='background:#F3F3F3'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Why not approach this from the other end of the
spectrum and work at making the original files smaller. Work with
the providers to make the images smaller in the first place, or at least come
up with a maximum practical size to work with, I mean if this is the only (or
biggest reason) for implementing JP2, then getting folks to make the smaller
deliverables seems like a better long term approach. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p style='background:#F3F3F3'><o p="#DEFAULT"></o><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p style='background:#F3F3F3'><o p="#DEFAULT"><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> </o>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p style='background:#F3F3F3'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p style='background:#F3F3F3'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Here's my reasoning, we're never (ever?) going to hit
the top end on how big files ever get, resolution just keeps going up and up, so
there is always going to be some upper limit that will need to be breached
somehow. Working out a proper method for segregating the data up
front (dare I say it), as some sort of standard (which can be adjusted as time
passes) will make everything work nicely, then all will work with available
tools when they are available, if tools to handle larger datasets become
available, and the community feels there is a reason/need that these new larger
files need to be handled, then they get to change the standard. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p style='background:#F3F3F3'><o p="#DEFAULT"></o><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p style='background:#F3F3F3'><o p="#DEFAULT"><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> </o>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p style='background:#F3F3F3'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p style='background:#F3F3F3'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>bobb <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p style='background:#F3F3F3'><o p="#DEFAULT"></o><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p style='background:#F3F3F3'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<o p="#DEFAULT"></o>
<p style='background:#F3F3F3'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p style='background:#F3F3F3'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
<br>
>>> "Fawcett, David" <David.Fawcett@state.mn.us> wrote:<o p="#DEFAULT"></o>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-left:11.25pt'>
<p style='background:#F3F3F3'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p style='background:#F3F3F3'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
I realize that there are likely not a large number of people who have<br>
the expertise and experience to write this kind of code. <br>
<br>
Is this a project that should be shopped around for funding? Google<br>
Summer of Code? A grant from our ~benevolent overlord
Google? Some<br>
other foundation or org interested in open data formats? <br>
<br>
David.<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: discuss-bounces@lists.osgeo.org<br>
[mailto:discuss-bounces@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Michael P. Gerlek<br>
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 4:36 PM<br>
To: <st1:PersonName w:st="on">OSGeo Discussions</st1:PersonName><br>
Subject: RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open File Formats and Proprietary<br>
Algorithms<br>
<snip><br>
<br>
<br>
> Do you know why there hasn't been a broader adoption of JP2?<br>
<br>
Not through lack of trying on my part :-)<br>
<br>
I think the two biggest reasons are:<br>
<br>
(1) The algorithms for handling large images in memory really are rocket<br>
science, and no one in the FOSS community has gotten the "itch"<br>
sufficiently bad enough to go and do the work needed inside the existing<br>
open source packages. Hopefully someday someone will.<br>
<br>
<br>
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