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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Bob,<br>
<br>
For what it's worth, and it's the same at OSGeo of course,
LocationTech & the Eclipse Foundation want projects to want to
join. It's always optional.<br>
<br>
It is unlikely for the foreseeable future that OSGeo would invest
in the specialized staff, infrastructure, and such to do the kind
of rigorous IP review that LocationTech & Eclipse Foundation
projects receive. This isn't a shot against OSGeo, it just is.
There are other services & infrastructure that are similar.<br>
<br>
The good news is, so long as an OSGeo project was comfortable
doing the trademark assignment (part of the process), then a
project could be dual listed fairly comfortably. I don't think the
benefit that OSGeo gets from projects is diminished in this case.
If this is comfortable to everyone, I could see LocationTech
projects do the same and list at OSGeo.<br>
<br>
Andrew<br>
<br>
On 17/09/14 08:08, Basques, Bob (CI-StPaul) wrote:<br>
</div>
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans
MS"">All,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans
MS""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans
MS"">How would the separation of projects occur between
those in OSGeo already vs those wanting to be LocationTech
certified as well. I would imagine that some would not feel
like they need to be certified by both. What happens in
this case?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans
MS""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans
MS"">Also, what are the longer term differences between
LocationTech and OSGeo with regard to keeping code legally
free of proprietary code, what’s the followup on the
Location tech side? I’m more in tune with OSGeo processes
BTW.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans
MS""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans
MS"">Bobb<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans
MS""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans
MS""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans
MS""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:discuss-bounces@lists.osgeo.org">discuss-bounces@lists.osgeo.org</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:discuss-bounces@lists.osgeo.org">mailto:discuss-bounces@lists.osgeo.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jachym Cepicky<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, September 15, 2014 4:59 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Jody Garnett<br>
<b>Cc:</b> OSGeo Discussions; Daniel Morissette<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Hacking OSGeo<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in">What about speeding OSGeo incubation
in a way, that projects, who made it through locationtech,
would have to work only at the differences between both
incubations, afaik the community aspect and maybe something
else, in order to make it to OSGeo project? It would be more
easy for them to make it through OSGeo incubation, things
would be speeding up a bit<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in">I'm I completely wrong?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in">Jachym<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in">Send from cellphone<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in">-- <br>
Jachym Cepicky<br>
e-mail: jachym.cepicky gmail com<br>
URL: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://les-ejk.cz">http://les-ejk.cz</a><br>
GPG: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://les-ejk.cz/pgp/JachymCepicky.pgp">http://les-ejk.cz/pgp/JachymCepicky.pgp</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in">Give your code freedom with PyWPS -<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://pywps.wald.intevation.org">http://pywps.wald.intevation.org</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">On Sep 15, 2014
7:55 AM, "Jody Garnett" <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:jody.garnett@gmail.com">jody.garnett@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Good
questions/discussion:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Going to
chime in as I enjoy both working with OSGeo incubation
and LocationTech. I am a couple timezones west of Daniel
but sleep is on the horizon.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">TLDR: I am
not 100% positive of either organisation, which is why
I am trying to make them better.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">--<br
clear="all">
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Jody
Garnett<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">On
Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 4:44 PM, Massimiliano Cannata
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:massimiliano.cannata@supsi.ch"
target="_blank">massimiliano.cannata@supsi.ch</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in">As you said the final
goal is the same: open source Geospatial software
affirmation. And this is the best thing I can wish
to all of us.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Agreed,
and I was very heartened by aspects of foss4g
this year.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid
#CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<p style="margin-left:.5in">Nevertheless what I
just have not clear is: what location teach do
differently with respect to osgeo? <o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">A
lot of questions :) The two organisations share
the same goals, but have different talents with
respect to outreach.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">I am
going to try and do a single Pro/Con for each
organisation just so you can see how they
differ. I suspect this is a better conversation
over beer or coffee since I cannot tell what
kind of differences you are interested in?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">OSGeo
Incubation<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Pro:
OSGeo incubation has the advantage of being less
formal, and thus able to adapt to the needs of
the projects in incubation today. This message
gets lots repeatedly, which makes me a bit sad.
I usually pick on my own projects, but perhaps
the pycsw crew would not mind being used as an
example. We have an "checklist" item about user
/ developer interaction, with an example
provided of user list collaboration around
releases. This example is dated and does not fit
with an amazing aspect of the pycsw story -
pycsw have great downstream projects fulfilling
this role (risk mitigation around release based
on bug reports, testing, collaboration). OSGeo
incubation has the flexibility to recognise this
value ... and get on with life.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Con:
OSGeo incubation has a look but don't touch
attitude - we like to leave projects as we found
them and not disturb the way each projects is
already functioning. This is great "low impact"
approach for when we were taking on fully-fored
projects like MapServer, MapGuide and PostGIS.
What could possibly be the drawback? We are not
in position to offer much guidance to
organisations that are new to open source
struggling to know where to start.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Contrast:
We are great at reviewing project viability to
try and protect OSGeo users from adopting
projects that have gone stale.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">LocationTech
Incubation<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Pro:
LocationTech is a working group in an already
established Software Foundation. They have a
long history of teaching new projects how to do
OpenSource. Many of the conventions we work with
in our open source projects (voting +1 to accept
a new committer on a project) have been
automated into a developer portal. This
structure can help those new to open source feel
confidence they are doing it right.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Cons:
The workload associated with checking
License/Headers is both harder and easier then
OSGeo. There are staff to do the checking, but
you need to submit each thing you depend on -
even down to the build tools used to compile,
build diagrams or generate docs. While I can
kind of respect this (protecting potential
developers from needing to purchase tools) was
not prepared for the workload.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Contrast:
Eclipse incubation does not say much about if a
project is stale.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid
#CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">does
it somehow overlap with incubation or not? What
are the distinctive features?<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">There
is an overlap, but differences:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">* A
project graduating out of OSGeo ...would have to
do a formal IP check to graduate out of
LocationTech. There is paid staff to do the
work, but it is still a lot of work to submit
all the code. I think there is like a TM check
and other stuff. Lots of work, with some
assistance on offer.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">* A
project graduating out of LocationTech ... would
have to do organisation viability, documentation
checks, user/developer collaboration and
similar. Soft concerns but hard to do.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">They
also have a similar issue: projects are (quite
rightly) more focused on the next release and
any publicity .. then actually completing
incubation.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid
#CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<p style="margin-left:.5in">Personally I wonder
why some of the most eminent person of osgeo
(like you) decided to work into location teach?
Don't misunderstood me, I'm not judging nor
criticizing, I'd just like to understand
opportunities or aspect or services not found in
osgeo and that experts and leaders found there.<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">When
the talks go up, skip to the end of the
LocationTech projects you can see leads from
several projects answer your question.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">For
me personally the motivation is the same: foster
new projects as the best way of fulfilling our
OSGeo mandate / LocationTech charter.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">For
me as uDig project lead:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">a)
The uDig project always wanted to join Eclipse:
since it is built with Eclipse "Rich Client
Platform (RCP)" the best way to attract new RCP
developers is to take uDig closer to where the
developers are.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">b)
Is in need of a new home as Refractions does not
appear active<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid
#CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<p style="margin-left:.5in">Sorry in advance for
my eventual ignorance, but I think this would
help people better understand the discussion and
the future of osgeo.<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Thanks
for the questions Maxi. If you want a front row
seat you could always talk to the OSGeo Board
about being the Guest on the LocationTech
meetings. This position was created help with
communication, and I guess this email thread
indicates a need.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">The
nice thing is that all these software
organisations are here to help (OSGeo, Eclipse
Foundation, Apache Foundation, Free Software
Foundation, Linux Foundation). This ability to
play well with others is something I respect
about OSGeo. We are not worried about our
projects being hosted on GitHub, or Marble GIS
working with KDE Foundation.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">--<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Jody<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">PS.
I wrote a <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.lisasoft.com/blog/programming-public-osgeo-and-locationtech"
target="_blank">blog post</a> of some of my
culture shock when first starting with
LocationTech. I have learned a bit since then so
take that link with a grain of salt.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">PPS.
I volunteered to help with foss4g-na, no idea
what I am in for, but if you have any
ideas/suggestions please send them to me.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid
#CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<p style="margin-left:.5in">Maxi<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Il
14-set-2014 17:05 "Daniel Morissette" <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:dmorissette@mapgears.com"
target="_blank">dmorissette@mapgears.com</a>>
ha scritto:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
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6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:.5in">FWIW I'm happy
to hear that there was such a face to
face discussion. I believe that open
communication on the issues will be the
best way to address the fears and find
ways to move forward in the best
interest of the overall worldwide
community of people, businesses,
institutions, etc who have a common
interest in seeing free and open source
geospatial software strive.<br>
<br>
Keep in mind that we all come to this
model of software development for
different reasons (business, academic,
philosophical, hobby, etc.), but in the
end we're all working towards a similar
objective, so there is no fear to be
had, just different means of reaching a
common objective, and since the result
of everybody's actions is better
free/open source software, everybody
will benefit in the end.<br>
<br>
Not sure if I was able to relay my
thoughts properly... maybe I need a bit
more sleep.<br>
<br>
Cheers all<br>
<br>
Daniel<br>
<br>
<br>
On 14-09-14 10:25 AM, Jachym Cepicky
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:.5in">Guys,<br>
<br>
as long as I understand it: "some
members of the community" are scared<br>
of LocationTech "taking over" whatever
(FOSS4G conference, OSGeo<br>
projects and community). This can be
based on real action, taken on<br>
either site, unofficial statement,
misunderstandings or personal<br>
dislikes.<br>
<br>
Yesterday, we had short (about 2hours)
face 2 face discussion with<br>
Andrew here in PDX (me, Vasile, Jeff and
Gerald) and I personally<br>
believe, that it is not in interest of
LocationTech to "crush" OSGeo<br>
or FOSS4G conference. It was clearly
stated, that LocationTech would<br>
like to contribute to FOSS4G and make it
to better conference,<br>
regarding (again) "some remarks" of
"some members of the community"<br>
(including myself), that the way, FOSS4G
is organised, does not<br>
necessary meet some of the community
aspects, we would like to stress.<br>
I would like to note, that the
discussion was very open on both sides,<br>
still calm and productive.<br>
<br>
"To contribute" of course means "to
work" and LocationTech is anything<br>
but volunteer driven organisation. It
has been stated, that FOSS4G-NA<br>
next year will be organised primarily by
LocationTech, but OSGeo willl<br>
be represented clearly and (so to say)
loudly.<br>
<br>
This could be one of the firsts steps
towards closer cooperation<br>
between LocationTech and OSGeo.<br>
<br>
Everybody is aware, that on some points,
LocationTech is not that<br>
good, as OSGeo currently is. OSGeo is
certainly failing in other<br>
things. Looking for ways, how to
strengthen common strengths and<br>
weaken our weaknesses should have
"non-zero-sum" effect.<br>
<br>
We, as OSGeo shall later evaluate,
whether the price for helping us<br>
LocationTech with conferences
(regardless if on regional or global<br>
level), was too hight or quite ok. In
case of disagreement, we shall<br>
try to find solution for the next time.<br>
<br>
In the worst case, we find out, that
cooperation is not possible and<br>
everybody can go it's way than.<br>
<br>
I hope, you get my point(s) and that I
did not misinterpreted<br>
anything, what was said.<br>
<br>
Thank you<br>
<br>
<br>
Jachym<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:.5in"><br>
-- <br>
Daniel Morissette<br>
T: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:%2B1%20418-696-5056%20%23201"
target="_blank">+1 418-696-5056 #201</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.mapgears.com/"
target="_blank">http://www.mapgears.com/</a><br>
Provider of Professional MapServer
Support since 2000</p>
</blockquote>
</div>
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</div>
</blockquote>
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</div>
</div>
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