<div dir="ltr"><div><div><div><div><div>Thank you Dirk,<br><br></div>I was missing that part from Peter answer.<br><br></div>I fully understand that the solution we want to build need to respect existing services.<br></div>And I wasn't suspect how many registry there was !<br><br></div>Regards,<br></div>Julien.<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2016-09-02 9:38 GMT+02:00 Dirk Frigne <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:dirk.frigne@geosparc.com" target="_blank">dirk.frigne@geosparc.com</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Peter,<br>
Carl,<br>
<br>
Thank you for your valuable input to the discussion,<br>
For me it is clear, as Peter suggests that improvements should be build on top of what exists, and is carefully validated.<br>
<br>
Dirk.<div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
On 2016-09-02 01:45, Carl Reed wrote:<br>
</div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div class="h5">
Julien -<br>
<br>
The EPSG is what the OGC considers normative. This is because there are<br>
humans in the loop that process requests for new a CRS to be added to<br>
the EPSG database. The humans are geodesy experts who validate the<br>
"correctness" or validity of a submitted CRS. After review, most<br>
submitted CRSs are included in the EPSG database and available via<br>
registry interfaces, such as provided by the OGC. Obviously, the process<br>
can take a while as the humans are volunteers.<br>
<br>
The primary problem with a totally open CRS registry is validation. In<br>
the 100% situation, anyone can submit and have included a CRS in the<br>
registry. At that point, every entry in the registry becomes suspect as<br>
to its mathematical correctness and geodetic validity. The problem is<br>
exacerbated if anyone can edit existing entries. Then the entire<br>
registry becomes suspect and buyer beware - along with potential<br>
liability/litigation.<br>
<br>
So, if there is a decision to move forward within the OSGeo community to<br>
provide a CRS registry, I would suggest also providing a governance<br>
mechanism and/or process to ensure as best as possible the validity of<br>
entries in the registry.<br>
<br>
My two cents on this topic!<br>
<br>
Regards<br>
<br>
Carl Reed<br>
Long time geo guy<br>
<br>
On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 5:17 PM, Julien Moquet <<a href="mailto:moquet.julien@gmail.com" target="_blank">moquet.julien@gmail.com</a><br></div></div><span class="">
<mailto:<a href="mailto:moquet.julien@gmail.com" target="_blank">moquet.julien@gmail.co<wbr>m</a>>> wrote:<br>
<br>
Hi Peter,<br>
<br>
How open is the OGC registry ?<br>
If data came from EPSG, it will not be really open : they never<br>
answer the request I sent.<br>
I think it's a human scalability problem (not really maintained).<br>
<br>
The idea is to make an open registry.<br>
May be it can use OGC registry, but projects might want to superseed<br>
it when request are not taken into account.<br>
Github offer an easy way to fork data, for free.<br>
<br>
Are you with us so ?<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Julien.<br>
<br>
<br>
2016-09-01 21:29 GMT+02:00 Peter Baumann<br>
<<a href="mailto:p.baumann@jacobs-university.de" target="_blank">p.baumann@jacobs-university.d<wbr>e</a><br></span>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:p.baumann@jacobs-university.de" target="_blank">p.baumann@jacobs-unive<wbr>rsity.de</a>>>:<span class=""><br>
<br>
Hi Manfred,<br>
<br>
On 09/01/2016 05:55 PM, <a href="mailto:manfred@egger-gis.at" target="_blank">manfred@egger-gis.at</a><br></span><div><div class="h5">
<mailto:<a href="mailto:manfred@egger-gis.at" target="_blank">manfred@egger-gis.at</a>> wrote:<br>
> Hello Peter,<br>
><br>
> Sorry, I have never heard of this standard.<br>
<br>
it is not a standard, it is a service offered by OGC (and based<br>
on standards).<br>
<br>
> Is there a existing sample application using this database by OGC? Is there a simple way to get the WKT like:<br>
> <a href="http://www.epsg-registry.org/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.epsg-registry.org/</a><br>
<br>
the link below yields GML. Other representations can be added -<br>
for example, the<br>
activist group establishing here might submit WKT<br>
representations; better,<br>
though, would be a tool for converting from GML as EPSG does<br>
updates every now<br>
and then. Such a tool might get extended at some time to also<br>
deliver JSON<br>
representations. Ideally it would do that on the fly whenever a<br>
CRS definition<br>
is requested. But now I am jumping ahead - obviously there is<br>
good room for<br>
extension and further services, at the same time avoiding<br>
duplication of effort.<br>
<br>
cheers,<br>
Peter<br>
<br>
PS: note that this service endpoint is mainly for m2m requests,<br>
not so much for<br>
human inspection. Another facet for discussion.<br>
<br>
PS2: the underlying service software is open-source (LGPL),<br>
might be of<br>
interest, too.<br>
<br>
<br>
> To Luís: Maybe before we start with a new datamodel and<br>
templates, we should look what solutions exist and collect them<br>
in the github project and then decide?<br>
><br>
> Best regards,<br>
><br>
> Manfred<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: "Peter Baumann" <<a href="mailto:p.baumann@jacobs-university.de" target="_blank">p.baumann@jacobs-university.d<wbr>e</a><br></div></div><span class="">
<mailto:<a href="mailto:p.baumann@jacobs-university.de" target="_blank">p.baumann@jacobs-unive<wbr>rsity.de</a>>><br>
> Sent: Thursday, September 1, 2016 3:20am<br>
> To: "Luís de Sousa" <<a href="mailto:luis.de.sousa@protonmail.ch" target="_blank">luis.de.sousa@protonmail.ch</a><br></span><div><div class="h5">
<mailto:<a href="mailto:luis.de.sousa@protonmail.ch" target="_blank">luis.de.sousa@protonma<wbr>il.ch</a>>>, "<a href="mailto:manfred@egger-gis.at" target="_blank">manfred@egger-gis.at</a><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:manfred@egger-gis.at" target="_blank">manfred@egger-gis.at</a>>" <<a href="mailto:manfred@egger-gis.at" target="_blank">manfred@egger-gis.at</a><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:manfred@egger-gis.at" target="_blank">manfred@egger-gis.at</a>>><br>
> Cc: <a href="mailto:discuss@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">discuss@lists.osgeo.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:discuss@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">discuss@lists.osgeo.or<wbr>g</a>><br>
> Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Detect and define the coordinate<br>
system of gis data with no projection information automatically<br>
><br>
> Hi all,<br>
><br>
> a public registry of all EPSG CRSs and their definitions is<br>
provided by OGC<br>
> since many years under <a href="http://www.opengis.net/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.opengis.net/</a> . For example,<br>
WGS 84 is<br>
> accessible through <a href="http://www.opengis.net/def/crs/EPSG/0/4326" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.opengis.net/def/crs<wbr>/EPSG/0/4326</a><br>
<<a href="http://www.opengis.net/def/crs/EPSG/0/4326" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.opengis.net/def/cr<wbr>s/EPSG/0/4326</a>> .<br>
><br>
> This service is kept in sync with EPSG releases and adds<br>
further CRS families,<br>
> such as Index CRSs and height CRSs and in future, once<br>
definitions are resolved<br>
> by OGC, also time ("temporal") CRSs. Arrangement has been made<br>
to also host<br>
> Planetary CRS definitions of the International Astronomical<br>
Union (IAU).<br>
><br>
> Repeating (part of) this comprehensive (and authoritative)<br>
work may be less<br>
> fruitful, but building additional services on top of that<br>
might make a lot of<br>
> sense indeed.<br>
><br>
> my 2 cents,<br>
><br>
> Peter<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On 08/28/2016 08:39 PM, Luís de Sousa wrote:<br>
>> Dear Manfred,<br>
>><br>
>> The projection finder project is not entirely clear to me,<br>
however, the<br>
>> suggestion for a new coordinate system database is indeed<br>
pertinent. This was<br>
>> referred in other addresses at the conference:<br></div></div>
<a href="http://spatialreference.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">spatialreference.org</a> <<a href="http://spatialreference.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://spatialreference.org</a>> has not<span class=""><br>
>> been maintained for several years; parts of proj4 are not, or<br>
poorly, maintained.<br>
>><br>
>> Besides a reference system database, it would also be quite<br>
useful to have a<br>
>> projection data base, including mathematical definitions, map<br>
sketches of<br>
>> their ouput and some clues or guidelines to its<br>
implementation (e.g.<br>
>> pseudo-code algorithms). This information is today very<br>
dispersed in the web.<br>
>><br>
>> Regards,<br>
>><br>
>> Luís<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>>> -------- Original Message --------<br>
>>> Subject: [OSGeo-Discuss] Detect and define the coordinate<br>
system of gis data<br>
>>> with no projection information automatically<br>
>>> Local Time: August 28, 2016 6:05 PM<br>
>>> UTC Time: August 28, 2016 4:05 PM<br></span><div><div class="h5">
>>> From: <a href="mailto:manfred@egger-gis.at" target="_blank">manfred@egger-gis.at</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:manfred@egger-gis.at" target="_blank">manfred@egger-gis.at</a>><br>
>>> To: <a href="mailto:discuss@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">discuss@lists.osgeo.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:discuss@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">discuss@lists.osgeo.or<wbr>g</a>><br>
>>><br>
>>> Hello,<br>
>>><br>
>>> At FOSS4G 2016 in Bonn i talked with Venkatesh Raghavan<br>
about my poster<br>
>>> presentation "SHAPEFILE PROJECTIONFINDER". URL to poster:<br>
>>><br>
<a href="http://www.egger-gis.at/app/download/13175253496/POSTER_EGGER_FOSS4G.pdf?t=1469787116" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.egger-gis.at/app/do<wbr>wnload/13175253496/POSTER_EGGE<wbr>R_FOSS4G.pdf?t=1469787116</a><br>
<<a href="http://www.egger-gis.at/app/download/13175253496/POSTER_EGGER_FOSS4G.pdf?t=1469787116" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.egger-gis.at/app/d<wbr>ownload/13175253496/POSTER_EGG<wbr>ER_FOSS4G.pdf?t=1469787116</a>><br>
>>><br>
>>> He recommended to start a discussion in this mailing list<br>
about the topic<br>
>>> mentioned in the mail subject.<br>
>>><br>
>>> I also talked in Bonn with Petr Pridal about <a href="http://epsg.io" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://epsg.io</a>.<br>
Some days before<br>
>>> Bonn i wrote emails to Aaaron Racicot and the mailing list of<br>
>>> <a href="http://spatialrefrence.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://spatialrefrence.org</a>.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Please read first carefully on my website, what i plan to do:<br>
>>><br>
>>> <a href="http://www.egger-gis.at/shapefile-projectionfinder/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.egger-gis.at/shapef<wbr>ile-projectionfinder/</a><br>
<<a href="http://www.egger-gis.at/shapefile-projectionfinder/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.egger-gis.at/shape<wbr>file-projectionfinder/</a>><br>
>>><br>
>>> There are two problems to solve before tools like SHAPEFILE<br>
PROJECTIONFINDER<br>
>>> can be developed as a sustainable solution:<br>
>>><br>
>>> 1. Until today there is no stable free service running like<br></div></div>
>>> <a href="http://www.projfinder.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.projfinder.com</a> <<a href="http://www.projfinder.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.projfinder.com</a>> by Aaron<span class=""><br>
Racicot, which can be used by all developers.<br>
>>><br>
>>> 2. Until today there is no open source database which<br>
includes all coordinate<br>
>>> system with epsg-code and additionally user and esri<br>
definded grids.<br>
>>><br>
>>> There are open source solutions like:<br>
>>><br></span>
>>> - <a href="http://spatialrefrence.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">spatialrefrence.org</a> <<a href="http://spatialrefrence.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://spatialrefrence.org</a>><br>
>>> - <a href="http://epsg.io" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">epsg.io</a> <<a href="http://epsg.io" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://epsg.io</a>><span class=""><br>
>>><br>
>>> But in the detail both solutions have problems to update<br>
their database with<br>
>>> low costs.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Maybe OSGeo can promote a stable service with load balancing<br>
on the base of<br></span>
>>> an existing solution like <a href="http://epsg.io" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">epsg.io</a> <<a href="http://epsg.io" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://epsg.io</a>> including<span class=""><br>
Aarons idea?<br>
>>><br>
>>> Maybe organisation like UN, a university or EU (INTERREG)<br>
are possible<br>
>>> project partners/sponsors for such a solution?<br>
>>><br>
>>> The goal is: Tools like SHAPEFILE PROJECTIONFINDER, a<br>
Q-GIS-Plugin or a<br>
>>> mobile application can use a stable free gis-service updated<br>
daily and help<br>
>>> gis users to solve projection troubles faster. I think gis<br>
users working not<br>
>>> everyday with gis will be happy about this solutions?<br>
>>><br>
>>> What do you think about my idea?<br>
>>><br>
>>> Best regards,<br>
>>><br>
>>> Manfred Egger<br>
>>><br>
>>> Alois-Schrott-Str. 34<br>
>>> 6020 Innsbruck<br>
>>> Austria<br>
>>><br>
>>> Web: <a href="http://egger-gis.at" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://egger-gis.at</a><br>
>>><br>
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</span></blockquote>
<br>
-- <br>
Yours sincerely,<br>
<br>
<br>
ir. Dirk Frigne<br>
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<br>
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