<div dir="ltr">That was actually the original requirement Jeff. I am having a hard time explaining to get Interactive that the sort order "core contributor" changes based on project. Even though we used the geoserver and qgis pages as an example.<div><br></div><div>It is kind of working since they have that association for "core contributors" on each project page, ideally I would like the link for "more" to go to the service providers paged filtered and sorted for a specific project.</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div>--</div><div>Jody Garnett</div></div></div></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On 22 August 2017 at 00:53, Jeff McKenna <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jmckenna@gatewaygeomatics.com" target="_blank">jmckenna@gatewaygeomatics.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi Jody,<br>
<br>
For the MapServer project Service Providers page[1] that was created recently, we do not alienate or 'filter' out companies by size (of any number); instead we use the following options:<br>
<br>
1. Core Contributors<br>
<br>
Core Contributor organizations have project Committers and/or PSC members as part of their team and as such they are the closest to the core development of the software and are usually the best to go to for support.<br>
<br>
2. Contributors<br>
<br>
The Contributors listed here usually have power users and experienced integrators as part of their team who are recognized in the project community for their contributions to various aspects of the software over the years and are very well positioned to assist you with the project.<br>
<br>
3. Other Service Providers<br>
<br>
The service providers in this category offer services around the project and related Open Source technologies.<br>
<br>
<br>
So maybe this is a better way to 'filter' by organization type. This would be my second proposal (actually this one makes better sense for the new OSGeo site, than my original 4 proposed options).<br>
<br>
[1] <a href="http://mapserver.org/community/service_providers.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://mapserver.org/community<wbr>/service_providers.html</a><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
<br>
-jeff</font></span><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 2017-08-21 8:09 PM, Jeffrey Johnson wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Hi All,<br>
<br>
I think we are talking about several different issues here. Let me try<br>
to summarize.<br>
<br>
1) JeffM is suggesting that we should *not* ask Service Providers what<br>
size they are in terms of number of employees to avoid 'alienating'<br>
them. I'm not sure I see how any would be alienated, but I dont think<br>
this piece of data is all that important anyway. I think we originally<br>
conceived of it to be able to separate out individual consultants and<br>
small companies from larger ones. I know in my experience when looking<br>
for a service provider, often I am specifically looking for small ones<br>
or individual consultants because Im not interested in dealing with<br>
big organizations. In any case, this service provider section should<br>
be open to any and all organizations (from one person consultancies to<br>
large organizations) that want to provide services for hire on OSGeo<br>
or other open source geospatial projects. Its not that important to<br>
*me* that we collect what size they are, but it may be useful to<br>
others to know what size they are when looking for help.<br>
<br>
2) JeffM is proposing we ask for the organization *type* here instead<br>
of size and be inclusive of other types of organizations than just<br>
companies. Im all for being as inclusive as we can, but this section<br>
of the site was specifically intended as a place where one could find<br>
organizations or individual consultants *for hire* to work on/with the<br>
projects. As Jody mentions, there are lots of NGOs and government orgs<br>
who would like to be listed somewhere on our site, but are NOT looking<br>
for work. The converse is also true, there are lots of NGOs and and<br>
perhaps even government agencies who are willing to do work for hire<br>
and would like to be listed here as a service provider.<br>
<br>
3) as mentioned in 2) it would be nice to have a place on our site to<br>
list organizations that are NOT looking for work, nor are a GeoForAll<br>
Lab, nor (yet) a sponsor or a partner (with a formal MOU). Perhaps<br>
they are important contributors to a project and would like to be<br>
listed somewhere. CSIRO comes to mind as an example. I think we DO<br>
need to think of perhaps a new content type to capture these and<br>
classify them appropriately and let them link to the projects they<br>
contribute to, resources they may have created etc. Perhaps just an<br>
'Organizations' section that is much like the 'Service Providers' and<br>
GeoForAll labs, but is listed separately under Community, I can think<br>
of a lot of organizations who would be interested to be listed here.<br>
<br>
Hoping we can all agree on what we are talking about here and find a<br>
solution. I really want to find a place for *every* member of our<br>
community big or small to show off their work and make sure its linked<br>
to other content types (projects, resources, news etc) appropriately.<br>
This is of course a bit hard because we have such a diverse group of<br>
stakeholders, but Im confident we can work through it.<br>
<br>
Jachym, just making sure you are happy with how OpenGeoLabs is currently listed?<br>
<br>
Kurt Menke if you are on this list, I intended to move Birds Eye GIS<br>
from being listed as a GeoForAll Lab to being a Service Provider and<br>
realize I got interrupted in the middle of doing it on Saturday and<br>
now its simply deleted. Ill reach out to you personally to make sure<br>
you get re-added in the right place.<br>
<br>
Also, I realize<br>
<a href="http://osgeo.getinteractive.nl/geo-for-all-labs/attivarti-org/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://osgeo.getinteractive.nl<wbr>/geo-for-all-labs/attivarti-or<wbr>g/</a> is<br>
another example of an organization that probably belongs in a new<br>
section as described in 3)<br>
<br>
Jeff<br>
<br>
On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 4:23 PM, Jody Garnett <<a href="mailto:jody.garnett@gmail.com" target="_blank">jody.garnett@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Jeff have you heard from any small companies that feel alienated? For many<br>
being a small company gives them a chance to offer personal service. I do<br>
not want to make assumptions if we can help it.<br>
<br>
My feedback was actually focused on the site design, partnership & friend<br>
relationships are appropriate for government and NGOs, geoforall labs are<br>
the appropriate relationship for education and science etc. If that is clear<br>
we can return to the earlier discussion - specifically about service<br>
provider size. (we should also be sure to capture this discussion on the<br>
issue tracker so it can actually inform the review of the website).<br>
<br>
Many of these decisions already took place during the earlier wireframe<br>
stage of the project (by contributors who stepped up to the marketing<br>
committee). We already went back to the drawing table on some of the key<br>
decisions during wire framing and initial website design.<br>
<br>
To clearly set expectations - we will not have a chance to revisit each and<br>
every decision due to limitations on time/budget. It is hard though, because<br>
it is much easier to care about a website when it is pretty and we can all<br>
see it :)<br>
<br>
My initial message to Jachym was trying to confirm that the organization<br>
size worked for opengeolabs (simply because this was already a decision that<br>
had been revisited once).<br>
<br>
On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 4:09 PM Jeff McKenna <<a href="mailto:jmckenna@gatewaygeomatics.com" target="_blank">jmckenna@gatewaygeomatics.com</a><wbr>><br>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Hi Jody,<br>
<br>
By alienating the smaller OSGeo companies in our new website, I don't<br>
see a benefit to OSGeo at all. Let us please all sizes of OSGeo<br>
companies, small and big.<br>
<br>
Yes this is tricky, for sure, even your initial message to Jachym shows<br>
a lot of what it could be like, if OSGeo suddenly distinguishes size.<br>
Let's avoid this totally, I believe.<br>
<br>
I am open to other suggestions to the wording as well.<br>
<br>
Tricky! :)<br>
<br>
-jeff<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 2017-08-21 6:53 PM, Jody Garnett wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
I already changed it from number to the size thing.<br>
<br>
This list was for support providers (since the website is about outreach<br>
looks at projects, local chapters and service providers).<br>
<br>
GeoForAll labs and academic / research outreach are in slightly<br>
different spot (we could cross link). See<br>
<a href="http://osgeo.getinteractive.nl/geo-for-all-labs/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://osgeo.getinteractive.nl<wbr>/geo-for-all-labs/</a><br>
<br>
I do not think public:government, NGO/non-profit would like to be<br>
contacted for commercial support :) That said they can be listed in our<br>
site as partners and friends. Sort order is given to groups with a<br>
defined relationship with OSGeo (such as ISPRS, LocationTech,...). See<br>
<a href="http://osgeo.getinteractive.nl/partners/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://osgeo.getinteractive.nl<wbr>/partners/</a><br>
<br>
Recognizing service providers on our website in this way is a new thing<br>
- I hope it works out :)<br>
<br>
This design is full of difficult decisions thanks for contributing to<br>
the discussion (and content).<br>
<br>
On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 3:30 PM Jeff McKenna<br>
<<a href="mailto:jmckenna@gatewaygeomatics.com" target="_blank">jmckenna@gatewaygeomatics.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:jmckenna@gatewaygeomatics.com" target="_blank">jmckenna@gatewaygeomat<wbr>ics.com</a>>><br>
wrote:<br>
<br>
Hi Jachym,<br>
<br>
Yes I agree, it is a slippery slope that once we/OSGeo decide that<br>
size<br>
is an important part of our organization (as you know, many other<br>
organizations separate their membership by size), it opens up so<br>
many<br>
other challenges. For that reason, I spoke up here to suggest that<br>
we<br>
avoid all that, by suggesting 4 options to cover that.<br>
<br>
Indeed my proposal does include all organizations, purposely. OSGeo<br>
is<br>
built on that, and has done an amazing job in creating a thriving<br>
community.<br>
<br>
Thanks for listening Jachym,<br>
<br>
-jeff<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 2017-08-21 6:17 PM, Jachym Cepicky wrote:<br>
> Hi Jeff (all)<br>
><br>
> currently, the page is listing "service providers" - it's<br>
project<br>
> oriented (as providing services to projects)<br>
><br>
> your proposal is shifting it little bit to "all organisations",<br>
not even<br>
> service providing - but what is their releationship to the<br>
(osgeo)<br>
> projects? - still, it would be fine to me<br>
><br>
> I would be +1 for it, if it's does not hit to some other<br>
principle,<br>
> already hardcoded in the page (e.g.<br>
> <a href="http://osgeo.getinteractive.nl/initiatives/geo-for-all/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://osgeo.getinteractive.nl<wbr>/initiatives/geo-for-all/</a> is partly<br>
> coreving the Academic/Research topic - just an example of<br>
potencial<br>
> conflict, which we could oversee)<br>
><br>
> I do not know, just noting, I have no strong opinion - I want to<br>
be<br>
> inclusive, all for adding another categories, but the rules and<br>
> principals should be clear. Currently, how I understand it "you<br>
can be<br>
> listed as long as you are providing services to projects"<br>
><br>
> J<br>
><br>
> út 22. 8. 2017 v 0:11 odesílatel Jeff McKenna<br>
> <<a href="mailto:jmckenna@gatewaygeomatics.com" target="_blank">jmckenna@gatewaygeomatics.com</a><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:jmckenna@gatewaygeomatics.com" target="_blank">jmckenna@gatewaygeoma<wbr>tics.com</a>><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:jmckenna@gatewaygeomatics.com" target="_blank">jmckenna@gatewaygeoma<wbr>tics.com</a><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:jmckenna@gatewaygeomatics.com" target="_blank">jmckenna@gatewaygeoma<wbr>tics.com</a>>>><br>
> napsal:<br>
><br>
> On 2017-08-21 5:11 PM, Jody Garnett wrote:<br>
> > For your page<br>
> ><br>
<a href="http://osgeo.getinteractive.nl/service-providers/opengeolabs/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://osgeo.getinteractive.n<wbr>l/service-providers/opengeolab<wbr>s/</a> Is<br>
> that a<br>
> > single consultant (you!) or a company?<br>
> > (or perhaps it is just a company with one person in it)<br>
> ><br>
><br>
> Hi Jody,<br>
><br>
> Regarding separating the OSGeo community by size, I suggest<br>
that we<br>
> avoid offending our community members, so let's stay positive<br>
and make<br>
> the following change:<br>
><br>
> I recommend that we/OSGeo change the "Organization Type"<br>
section to<br>
> contain the following 4 options:<br>
><br>
> 1. Private<br>
> 2. Academic/Research<br>
> 3. Public/Government<br>
> 4. Non-profit<br>
><br>
> The same 4 options should be applied to the options in the<br>
"Filter"<br>
> search on the site for "Service Provider Type".<br>
><br>
> Thanks.<br>
><br>
> Jachym: you did a great job on the OpenGeoLabs page, and<br>
thanks for<br>
> supporting OSGeo all of these years :)<br>
><br>
><br>
> -jeff<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Jeff McKenna<br>
> President Emeritus, OSGeo Foundation<br>
> <a href="http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Jeff_McKenna" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Jef<wbr>f_McKenna</a><br>
><br>
><br>
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