[fdo-users] RE: [mapguide-users] Fdo2Fdo

Mon Nov 6 17:15:34 EST 2006

Oh...

I don't fully understand FDO (logical and physical and meta, oh my) but
my main concern is that the driver that Mateusz is developing be able to
work fully with Map 3D and MapGuide.  However, if it is based on the
MySQL provider then it's possible that it will be able to access
non-metadata data without requiring the metadata in the database?  I see
this as an important requirement in order to promote the use of PostGIS
with MapGuide in the existing open source GIS community.  Users won't
want to have to change their data or write anything to the database to
be able to use it with FDO/MapGuide.

I certainly feel for developers who are new to FDO and are flying
partially blind (sorry Mateusz).  I think that it's somewhat expected
because FDO is just a fledgeling project and still needs to get some of
its documentation ducks in a row, but I'd hope that clarifying the
expected client behaviours, code architecture, etc will be priorities
for the PSC.

Jason

________________________________

From: Robert Fortin [mailto:robert.fortin at autodesk.com] 
Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 11:53
To: users at mapguide.osgeo.org
Cc: users at fdo.osgeo.org; Paul Ramsey; Frank Warmerdam (External);
Mateusz Loskot
Subject: [fdo-users] RE: [mapguide-users] Fdo2Fdo

Jason,

If you mean that Map Schema Editor doesn't work fully with foreign
schema in Map, this is a limitation of the providers and not of Map.
FDO is the level of abstraction by which Autodesk tools work with FDO
data and schema.  The provider is responsible for doing the mapping
between logical and physical representations.  There is no need to have
metadata in the database if the provider create its own metadata on the
fly and expose it through FDO. 

And you guessed right: the metadata part is a legacy that we have be
living with.  But metadata is not necessary to access Oracle and MySQL
data in native form. (SQL Server is different since it has its own
custom spatial support).

RF

________________________________

From: Jason Birch [mailto:Jason.Birch at nanaimo.ca] 
Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 2:02 PM
To: users at mapguide.osgeo.org
Cc: users at fdo.osgeo.org; Paul Ramsey; Frank Warmerdam (External);
Mateusz Loskot
Subject: RE: [mapguide-users] Fdo2Fdo

FDO is open source.  If there are non-open parts of the specification,
I'd be EXTREMELY disappointed.  I'm not sure if using all caps was
enough to express the level to which I'd be disappointed...

It's frustrating that the default RDBMS providers require that you keep
the metadata in the database rather than mapping on the fly.  Given the
limited budget and the desire to integrate with the proprietary Autodesk
products, the PostGIS provider has been integrated with the core RDBMS
providers.  To me, it seemed more important to be able to use PostGIS
with Map 3D and spread the adoption of PostGIS by Autodesk users than it
was to enable access to existing PostGIS schemas.

It believe that what this means in the short term is that it may be
necessary to use Autodesk tools to populate it, and that you can not
just access existing data.  Longer-term, I'm sure that "foreign" schema
support will be added to this provider, but I think that this still
requires that you keep the metadata in the same data source (possibly in
a different schema?).  What I would really like to see is a third level
of function where all of the mappings are kept internally to FDO without
affecting the datasource.  I hope that over time FDO will give priority
to "on-the-fly" access to my data without making the data store
essentially proprietary to FDO.

I guess a lot of this is probably stemming from FDO starting out as a
way of storing Autodesk data in multiple sources, rather than as a
generic data access mechanism.  

If any of this is incorrect (Paul, Mateusz) I'd appreciate correction.

In the mean time, if you manage to extend fdo2fdo to support this
metadata, that would be a great interim measure.

Jason

________________________________

From: Haris Kurtagic [mailto:haris at sl-king.com] 
Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 10:28
To: users at mapguide.osgeo.org
Subject: RE: [mapguide-users] Fdo2Fdo

Hm, I wasn't thinking in that direction, but Map is still needed if you
wan't to have full FDO Meatada arround your data.

This tool will create plain tables in Oracle (indexes, keys,..) and this
data can be used in MapGuide or Map as foreign schemas or using
King.Oracle Provider.

If you would like to have full FDO Metadata, MAP is still needed.

P.S.
Not sure , if for non Autodesk tool is correct ( i mean some licence
restrictions) to create FDO metada also ?
I suppose it should be, but would be nice if someone from Autodesk would
confirm that.
I was already doing that once for Oracle Topology, puting FDO metadata
arround it.

Haris

________________________________

From: Jason Birch [mailto:Jason.Birch at nanaimo.ca] 
Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 7:19 PM
To: users at mapguide.osgeo.org
Subject: RE: [mapguide-users] Fdo2Fdo

This is pretty cool Haris.

This means that users that aren't able to purchase a Map 3D license can
load data into RDBMS data sources.

Jason

________________________________

From: Haris Kurtagic
Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 09:59
To: users at mapguide.osgeo.org
Subject: [mapguide-users] Fdo2Fdo

Hi,

Fdo2Fdo is a tool I am using to work with, learn and test FDO and
perhaps it can help to someone else also.
It is a FDO client application for copying FDO Data Sources and manage
FDO Data Sources with additional tools to work with Oracle.
It has two parts: standard library as fdo client and windows
application.

Some features:

1. Copy to/from SHP, SDF, Oracle ( didn't tested others but could work)
http://www.sl-king.com/fdo2fdo/screenshots_copy.html

2. Copy to Oracle and it will setup all stuff so you can view it
immediately in MapGuide (sdo metadata, spatial index, layer type,
primary key)

3. Fdo Toolbox: useful utilities for testing fdo providers and schemas
http://www.sl-king.com/fdo2fdo/screenshots_fdo.html

4. Oracle toolbox - manage sdo metadata, spatial index, primary keys
http://www.sl-king.com/fdo2fdo/screenshots_ora.html

5. API c, .net  http://www.sl-king.com/fdo2fdo/fdo2fdo_api.html

You can get it here:  www.sl-king.com/fdo2fdo

It is a self contained application.
It is 38 MB .zip file which you unzip and ready to go. It contains:
complete fdo, shp,sdf,king.oracle provider, oracle instant client and
needed microsoft redistributables.

I tested it around sdf,shp and oracle but it is general fdo client so it
could work with others also, if not let me know and I will try to fix
it.

If some of this, is material for open source I am happy to make it so.

Haris

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