[gdal-dev] [Live-demo] [Board] Retire MapTiler from OSGeo-Live

Dmitriy Baryshnikov bishop.dev at gmail.com
Fri Feb 13 05:18:52 PST 2015 

I agreed with Angelos.
My +1

Best regards,
     Dmitry

13.02.2015 15:54, Angelos Tzotsos пишет:
> Hi Even,
>
>
> On 02/13/2015 02:05 PM, Even Rouault wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> (adding gdal-dev in CC as it is of interest)
>>
>> As far as I understand (but I may be wrong as I haven't looked deeply 
>> at the
>> code), maptiler (the open source project) consists of an improved
>> gdal2tiles.py + a python gui.
>> The duplication between gdal2tiles.py in maptiler and GDAL isn't 
>> something
>> particularly great. Ideally there should be one single version 
>> maintained in
>> the OSGeo ecosystem.
>>
>> So there are several possibilities I can imagine :
>>
>> 1) Merge maptiler's gdal2tiles enhancements into GDAL version, and make
>> maptiler just a GUI over it
>>
>> 2) Merge maptiler's gdal2tiles enhancements into GDAL version, and 
>> also import
>> the GUI (I think it is lightweight) if there's no too strong build
>> complications involved for GDAL. Would have to be checked
>>
>> 3) Remove gdal2tiles from GDAL so that the reborne maptiler is the 
>> reference.
>> But there are perhaps fixes in GDAL gdal2tiles that should be merged 
>> into
>> maptiler one (Python3 compatibility comes to mind)
>>
>> Any option would need someone to champion it of course...
>
> IMO, the third option should not be considered at all, since 
> gdal2tiles is very important tool in gdal and many people (including 
> me) prefer the script from any GUI out there. I have also seen an 
> improved version of this script dealing with multiple threads.
>
> My preference would be option 1.
>
> Just my 2c :)
>> Even
>>
>>
>>> Hi Eli, replying to your email, CC OSGeo-Live list (with your 
>>> permission).
>>>
>>> I agree that we don't want to be promoting a proprietary product 
>>> from an
>>> Open Source page.
>>>
>>> I suspect Angelos' subsequent email partially addresses your 
>>> suggestions:
>>>
>>> On 13/02/2015 10:47 am, Angelos Tzotsos wrote:
>>>> We have also discussed that in order to remove the project, we request
>>>> that there is an official source code repository to link to. This way
>>>> we can prove that the project was open source and can be forked in the
>>>> future. Unfortunately the main repository of the project was recently
>>>> deleted.
>>>> Without this, one can have the impression that OSGeoLive and OSGeo has
>>>> endorsed and distributed proprietary software.
>>>>
>>>> Also we plan to introduce IceTiler in the next version of OSGeoLive.
>>> For this OSGeo-Live release we will do what we can achieve within the
>>> time available.
>>>
>>> On 13/02/2015 11:58 am, Eli Adam wrote:
>>>> Hi Cameron,
>>>>
>>>> I know that timeline is as big of a challenge as anything else in this
>>>> case.  I have a marketing/presentation question for you below.
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 2:23 PM, Cameron Shorter
>>>>
>>>> <cameron.shorter at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi Petr, OSGeo-Live team, OSGeo Board,
>>>>> Is our OSGeoLive meeting, we discussed retiring of MapTiler from
>>>>> OSGeoLive. CCing OSGeo Board in discussion, in case the board wish to
>>>>> comment.
>>>>>
>>>>> Summary:
>>>>> * MapTiler was Open Source, and was included in prior OSGeo-Live
>>>>> distributions
>>>>> * Petr, the author, found the Open Source business model was not 
>>>>> working
>>>>> for him, and has since moved future enhancements to a proprietary
>>>>> model. * The "maptiler" brand name now points to a URL of a 
>>>>> proprietary
>>>>> product. * Petr has requested MapTiler be removed from OSGeo-Live.
>>>>> * As far as I've noticed, while there has been some disappointment to
>>>>> loose MapTiler as an Open Source project, we respect Petr's right to
>>>>> continue development using whatever model works for him. We are now
>>>>> working out how to cleanly transition.
>>>>>
>>>>> Of note:
>>>>> * We have prior OSGeo-Live releases and documentation which reference
>>>>> the previous Open Source Maptiler.
>>>>> * OSGeo-Live wish to retain our reputation of promoting Open Source
>>>>> products, both now, and in the past.
>>>>>
>>>>> Proposal for our imminent OSGeo-Live 8.5 release:
>>>>> * OSGeoLive will add a statement to our contents page [1] stating:
>>>>> "Maptiler: not included after OSGeo-Live 8.0, after project moved to
>>>>> proprietary business model"
>>> On 13/02/2015 11:58 am, Eli Adam wrote:
>>>> This seems odd to reference proprietary software at all.  The contents
>>>> page [1] is a wonderful showcase of *open source* software. Why
>>>> include an advertisement to go look for a proprietary software that
>>>> started as open source?  Linking to the last open source code with no
>>>> name makes more sense to me (I know that isn't possible unless we put
>>>> the code somewhere).  Or linking to http://gdal.org/gdal2tiles.html
>>>> which has some similar functionality and common ancestry. Looks like
>>>> maybe licenses have varied in different points in time from different
>>>> sources too.  On the short timeline, there is no fork and no name to
>>>> link to yet.  If there were a fork and name would you list and link
>>>> that?  If so would you list or link "MapTiler" too?
>>>>
>>>> You could link (or save all the information from),
>>>> https://web.archive.org/web/20131216172514/http://www.maptiler.org/
>>>> The Google Code SVN repo is also accessible through that method.  It
>>>> appears that google code svn still works, for instance, svn checkout
>>>> http://maptiler.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/ maptiler-read-only
>>>>
>>>> I'm sure that you'll work it out fine but just wanted you to think
>>>> about the appearance of that list of *open source* software.  How do
>>>> you want the main list of open source geo software to appear?  I think
>>>> that should be the primary purpose (and fits with the OSGeo Live
>>>> project goals).
>>>>
>>>> Best regards, Eli
>>>>
>>>>> * The Maptiler Project Overview [2] will be updated to explain that
>>>>> MapTiler was Open Source, but future developments were 
>>>>> proprietary. The
>>>>> Overview will reference the last Open Source version of software
>>>>> available.
>>>>> * The Maptiler Quickstart will be removed from docs, (but still
>>>>> available in subversion)
>>>>> * The maptiler installer will be disabled so MapTiler will not be
>>>>> distributed on OSGeo-Live.
>>>>>
>>>>> If anyone has objections or comments, please raise them within 48 
>>>>> hours
>>>>> (15 Feb 2015) such that we can address them before our release.
>>>>>
>>>>> Most (not all) of the history on this conversation has been copied
>>>>> below.
>>>>>
>>>>> [1] http://live.osgeo.org/en/overview/overview.html
>>>>> [2] http://live.osgeo.org/en/overview/maptiler_overview.html
>>>>>
>>>>> On 13/02/2015 4:29 am, Angelos Tzotsos wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> I definitely agree here with Howard.
>>>>>
>>>>> Since Maptiler has been included in OSGeoLive for 5 years now, and 
>>>>> Petr
>>>>> has agreed to follow the OSGeoLive license for his contribution, 
>>>>> there
>>>>> has to be some kind of lineage about this project online. It cannot
>>>>> just disappear. People would think that OSGeo endorced non-free
>>>>> software in the past, which is not acceptable in my opinion.
>>>>>
>>>>> We need an "official" public repository including the last version of
>>>>> the open source code to link to. We should then link to that in our
>>>>> documents (even if the project is removed). Cameron has already moved
>>>>> the documents in the "retired" area.
>>>>>
>>>>> I agree that the Maptiler name has to be removed from OSGeoLive in
>>>>> future versions. But, the request for removal came much after our
>>>>> official 8.5 code freeze, so I am against removing stuff from 8.5
>>>>> especially 10 days before release.
>>>>> I propose we keep the installer for 8.5 (unless Petr provides a 
>>>>> new deb
>>>>> version with a new name).
>>>>> I also propose to remove the Maptiler documents completely for this
>>>>> release.
>>>>>
>>>>> Then, as Johan suggested we can fork Maptiler as Icetiler for the 
>>>>> next
>>>>> OSGeoLive 9.0 release and restore the docs.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Angelos
>>>>>
>>>>> PS. I also want to thank Petr for his work on Maptiler, it is much
>>>>> appreciated.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 02/09/2015 11:46 AM, Johan Van de Wauw wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> First of all I would like to thank Petr for his work on Maptiler. He
>>>>> has actually spent a lot of unpaid time to develop a tool which is
>>>>> useful for many users.
>>>>> Earning a living from open-source is hard - as most people who have
>>>>> tried will be able to tell you.
>>>>>
>>>>> Second I would like to point out that a project that has many users
>>>>> and little contributors is not necessarily unsuccessful. If your tool
>>>>> is working well, it may not scratch a developers itch[1].
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, it seems that by retiring from OsGeo live you did hit many
>>>>> developers itch, so it seems this may actually be a rebirth of the
>>>>> project.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think that the request of Petr is fair: the code remains free 
>>>>> (which
>>>>> it should, because there can be many derived works), but he just
>>>>> requests not to use the name and logo. This leaves room for other
>>>>> developers to jump in and create a new version. Yesterday on IRC, I
>>>>> proposed the name "IceTiler" as an alternative, based on the
>>>>> rebranding done by debian for many mozilla projects [2]. Other
>>>>> suggestions are welcome :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Taking all into account I'm +1 on removing this project from OsGeo
>>>>> live in the current form, but I think we could have "IceTiler" in a
>>>>> next release if there is sufficient interest.
>>>>>
>>>>> Kind Regards,
>>>>> Johan
>>>>>
>>>>> [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cathedral_and_the_Bazaar
>>>>> [2]
>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Corporation_software_rebranded_by_t 
>>>>>
>>>>> he_Debian_project _______________________________________________
>>>>> Live-demo mailing list
>>>>> Live-demo at lists.osgeo.org
>>>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/live-demo
>>>>> http://live.osgeo.org
>>>>> http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Live_GIS_Disc
>>>>> .
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 9/02/2015 12:09 pm, Jody Garnett wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Trademarks is one of those issues we tend to handle off-list with 
>>>>> mentor
>>>>> and project  leadership (and/or the board if required).
>>>>>
>>>>> In this case the author and trademark owner in one in the same 
>>>>> (and has
>>>>> a fairly clear request).
>>>>>
>>>>> My limited understanding is the board will need to care about 
>>>>> trademarks
>>>>> in source code that has been contributed to OSGe (which is not a
>>>>> requirement of participation). I expect they will only need to 
>>>>> care in
>>>>> the US (since that is where the organization is based) but that is up
>>>>> to legal council, IANAL etc...
>>>>>
>>>>> It is relatively common for open source projects to be renamed due 
>>>>> to TM
>>>>> conflict. This is a service a software foundation can provide, apache
>>>>> has strict management of trademarks, eclipse does a trademark check
>>>>> prior to accepting a project into incubation etc... But it is not 
>>>>> clear
>>>>> cut - Debian for example refuses to include firefox as that name is
>>>>> trademarked (and not "free" and reusable ),
>>>>>
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> Jody Garnett
>>>>>
>>>>> On 7 February 2015 at 17:03, Even Rouault 
>>>>> <even.rouault at spatialys.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (adding incubator@ as it is both of interest I think for 
>>>>>> OSGeo-Live &
>>>>>> incubator)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I will not argue about this particular case, but this does raise an
>>>>>> interesting question about how we should handle trademark issues
>>>>>> (perhaps this
>>>>>> has been discussed in the past, so sorry if I come after the battle)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The OSGeo incubation application questionnaire
>>>>>> http://www.osgeo.org/incubator/process/application.html mentions:
>>>>>> "Is the code free of patents, trademarks, and do you control the
>>>>>> copyright? "
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It does not address clearly the issue of trademark of the *name 
>>>>>> of the
>>>>>> project* (it mentions just the *code*).
>>>>>> I'm not sure if there should be a policy regarding ownership of the
>>>>>> trademark
>>>>>> of the name of a project, but at least it could be asked if 
>>>>>> there's a
>>>>>> trademark on the name, and who owns it (and in which 
>>>>>> countries...) ? As
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> below example shows, this can have impact on the future of the 
>>>>>> project.
>>>>>> But
>>>>>> this is likely complex.
>>>>>> - What if someone from a random country comes and says "eh this 
>>>>>> project
>>>>>> conflicts with my trademark in Foobarland" ? Which countries should
>>>>>> OSGeo care
>>>>>> about ? Or perhaps this is too complex and the only real answer to
>>>>>> those questions is when you are assigned to a court ;-)
>>>>>> - And even if the trademark is owned by someone/an entity which is
>>>>>> strongly
>>>>>> related to the project, things can evolve over time. So shouldn't 
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> trademark be transfered to OSGeo control to guarantee fairness of 
>>>>>> use ?
>>>>>> But
>>>>>> that would mean that OSGeo would have to pay the costs of 
>>>>>> registration.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For the record, I did the exercice of quick searching which OSGeo
>>>>>> projects are
>>>>>> trademarked in France ( http://bases-marques.inpi.fr/ ) and it 
>>>>>> *seems*
>>>>>> (only a
>>>>>> search by a specialist in I.P would confirm it) that only QGIS and
>>>>>> GeoMajas are
>>>>>> (and both have E.U. wide validity). (There are unrelated matches for
>>>>>> Geotools,
>>>>>> Marble and OSSIM). OSGeo itself isn't trademarked. And apparently
>>>>>> MapTiler neither.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In the incubating projects, gvSIG is trademarked (E.U wide). 
>>>>>> Unrelated
>>>>>> matches
>>>>>> for "the zoo project" and OTB.  Rasdaman is registered in Germany.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Even
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi everybody,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Let me clarify the situation:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - The original MapTiler (python + wxWidgets) is discontinued and
>>>>>>> unfortunately it failed as an open-source project in my eyes. The
>>>>>>> software
>>>>>>> attracted quite a lot of end users, but no 3rd party developers. 
>>>>>>> There
>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>> not a single commit from any third-party ever to the MapTiler 
>>>>>>> project
>>>>>>> code
>>>>>>> itself, probably because the graphical utility was used mostly by
>>>>>>> non-programmers. The otherwise great project stalled for some 
>>>>>>> time. I
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> not seen how to move it forward without any financial support, 
>>>>>>> while
>>>>>>> not being a student anymore - and it made me really sad.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Since 2011, I work with my team on a completely new 
>>>>>>> implementation
>>>>>>> of an
>>>>>>> efficient tiling utility, the new MapTiler usable both from the
>>>>>>> command-line as well as from the graphical user interface, 
>>>>>>> written in
>>>>>>> C++
>>>>>>> and QT. It is significantly faster, merges multiple files in 
>>>>>>> different
>>>>>>> srs,
>>>>>>> handles correctly dateline crossing and world maps, tiles in
>>>>>>> non-mercator
>>>>>>> grids, it directly produces small and optimized jpg and pngs, it is
>>>>>>> compatible with OGC WMTS, contains uploader to Amazon S3 and Google
>>>>>>> Cloud
>>>>>>> Storage, supports different layers on different zoom levels (see
>>>>>>> http://goo.gl/TCrGtQ and other tutorials), and it comes with many
>>>>>>> other new
>>>>>>> features, with installers, regular updates, support and 
>>>>>>> maintenance.
>>>>>>> It runs on Win/Lin/Mac - see http://www.maptiler.com/ for more
>>>>>>> information. With my colleagues we are trying to do our job as good
>>>>>>> as we can. It is a complete rewrite of the original utility, fixing
>>>>>>> design flaws and
>>>>>>> implementation issues of both GDAL2Tiles and original MapTiler. 
>>>>>>> To be
>>>>>>> able
>>>>>>> to support the utility and to work on new features we ask for a
>>>>>>> license fee.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - There was no financial support from Google Summer of Code nor 
>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>> OSGeo
>>>>>>> on the original MapTiler.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -  Both my Google SoC in 2007 and 2008 were on the GDAL2TIles
>>>>>>> command-line
>>>>>>> utility, lead by Howard.
>>>>>>> My original GDAL2Tiles from 2007 is available at
>>>>>>> http://www.klokan.cz/projects/gdal2tiles/ and the version from 
>>>>>>> 2008 is
>>>>>>> distributed together with GDAL library, with patches and some 
>>>>>>> fixes,
>>>>>>> mostly
>>>>>>> from Evan.
>>>>>>> As Even pointed out - I started to work on the MapTiler during 
>>>>>>> August
>>>>>>> 2008,
>>>>>>> after the second SoC. BRGM mentioned in the code of GDAL2Tiles.py
>>>>>>> supported
>>>>>>> improvements of GDAL2Tiles, not MapTiler project.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - As the sole author of MapTiler and the owner of the MapTiler
>>>>>>> trademark I
>>>>>>> would like to request complete removal of the MapTiler from the 
>>>>>>> OSGeo
>>>>>>> LiveDVD. I have prepared the existing .deb package as well as 
>>>>>>> supplied
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> quickstart and installation scripts to the svn about 5 years back.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - If anybody is interested to revive my original open-source 
>>>>>>> project
>>>>>>> published under an open-source license, he is welcomed to do that -
>>>>>>> under
>>>>>>> the conditions of the original license, while preserving the 
>>>>>>> original
>>>>>>> copyright notice, and under the condition his fork of the 
>>>>>>> project is
>>>>>>> not anymore called MapTiler and does not use original graphical
>>>>>>> elements and desktop icon of the original application.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - The existence of the two projects of the same name is 
>>>>>>> confusing the
>>>>>>> people and I want to avoid it. I hope you respect my decision. 
>>>>>>> The old
>>>>>>> MapTiler is dead, long live the MapTiler! ;-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - I continue to work on several other open-source projects and 
>>>>>>> with my
>>>>>>> team
>>>>>>> I keep developing, contributing and improving on OL3Cesium, 
>>>>>>> OpenLayers
>>>>>>> V3,
>>>>>>> WebGL Earth, EPSG.io, IIPImage, GDAL and other projects. See our
>>>>>>> github and
>>>>>>> blog for details: http://www.klokantech.com/.
>>>>>>> Open-source is indeed very powerful and viable on components and I
>>>>>>> can't imagine to live without it. Still, there are situations, 
>>>>>>> where
>>>>>>> it is simply
>>>>>>> not applicable.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am proud to be part of OSGeo and I am keen to continue to 
>>>>>>> contribute
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> the community in future. I admire and honor people like Frank or 
>>>>>>> Evan
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> others. You have my true respect for what you do and what you have
>>>>>>> achieved!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Petr Pridal, Ph.D.
>>>>>>> Klokan Technologies GmbH
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> P.S.
>>>>>>> If anybody is interested in even more background of the 
>>>>>>> evolution of
>>>>>>> MapTiler you can read:
>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/maptiler/r9Xa8S_S4Z8/7pJoqKR1MM0J
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, Feb 6, 2015 at 9:24 PM, Cameron Shorter
>>>>>>> <cameron.shorter at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> I've had a request from the MapTiler project to have it removed 
>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>> OSGeo-Live.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've raised a ticket:
>>>>>>>> https://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo/ticket/1467
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'll look after updating the docs.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>> Cameron Shorter,
>>>>>>>> Software and Data Solutions Manager
>>>>>>>> LISAsoft
>>>>>>>> Suite 112, Jones Bay Wharf,
>>>>>>>> 26 - 32 Pirrama Rd, Pyrmont NSW 2009
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> P +61 2 9009 5000,  W www.lisasoft.com,  F +61 2 9009 5099
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Live-demo mailing list
>>>>>>>> Live-demo at lists.osgeo.org
>>>>>>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/live-demo
>>>>>>>> http://live.osgeo.org
>>>>>>>> http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Live_GIS_Disc
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> Spatialys - Geospatial professional services
>>>>>> http://www.spatialys.com
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Incubator mailing list
>>>>>> Incubator at lists.osgeo.org
>>>>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Incubator mailing list
>>>>> Incubator at lists.osgeo.org
>>>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> Cameron Shorter,
>>>>> Software and Data Solutions Manager
>>>>> LISAsoft
>>>>> Suite 112, Jones Bay Wharf,
>>>>> 26 - 32 Pirrama Rd, Pyrmont NSW 2009
>>>>>
>>>>> P +61 2 9009 5000,  W www.lisasoft.com,  F +61 2 9009 5099
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Board mailing list
>>>>> Board at lists.osgeo.org
>>>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/board
>
>

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