Matt's chicken-and-egg point seems dead-on. Except that Jack Dangermond abhors a vacuum and ESRI has been focused on higher-order issues than file formats. They are trying to provide topological constraints in the database (or file) and things like geometric networks (which are really just a set of topologically consistent linear features). The good ol' Shapefile doesn't even come close to cutting the mustard. ArcSDE imposes these on other RDBMS. The Personal Geodatabases did it in MDBs. And the File Geodatabase does it without dependency on Microsoft Jet.<div>
<br></div><div>Another way to look at the open spec issue (which echoes ESRIs sentiment) is that it's rather easy to screw up topology constraints. As Peter mentioned, SDE sometimes doesn't like Oracle tables created by GDAL. The format of the tables may be fine - but the topological relations may not be right. I'm betting ESRI created File Geodatabase mainly to get away from the Personal Geodatabase because it was too easy to muck with the MDB in Access and screw up the higher order relationships.</div>
<div><br></div><div>File Geodatabases, like Shapefiles and Personal Geodatabases, are intended as a means to exchange data. You export your data from ArcSDE into one of these formats and give it to someone to use. Shapefiles are stripped of topology. Personal Geodatabases only really work on platforms Microsoft supports. File Geodatabases are the next logical step.</div>
<div><br></div><div>SpatialLite seems like a really strong contender. How do we get ESRI to play along?</div><div><br clear="all">-=--=---=----=----=---=--=-=--=---=----=---=--=-=-<br>Eric B. Wolf New! 720-334-7734<br>
USGS Geographer<br>Center of Excellence in GIScience<br>PhD Student <br>CU-Boulder - Geography<br><br>GPG Public Key: <a href="http://www.h4h.net/ebwolf.public.key.txt">http://www.h4h.net/ebwolf.public.key.txt</a><br>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 1:21 AM, Peter J Halls <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:P.Halls@york.ac.uk">P.Halls@york.ac.uk</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
Another way to achieve interoperability is via a DBMS for which there is an SDE implementation, although this may not be appropriate for Matt Wilkie's requirements. It may not be always as easy as with shapefiles but it does not have the limitations. Having said that, in our Oracle environment I do have a problem getting SDE to recognise some spatial datasets created with GDAL but have yet to prove what is happening to cause this and so cannot point a finger of blame in any direction ...<br>
<br>
Best wishes,<br><font color="#888888">
<br>
Peter</font><div><div></div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
Duarte Carreira wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Matt, the only reason I have seen presented for some reluctance in pushing spatialite as a de facto standard following shapefile's success, is not having a foothold in the closed source sector. That's the only thing ESRI's fgdb could potentially offer, since the extra data types supported will not be available outside ESRI's software (Terrain, Topology, Networks, etc.).<br>
<br>
(As for interoperability with ESRI, its users can always export to shapefile. Ofcourse I would prefer to directly read fgdb data but if not possible it's ok too.)<br>
<br>
So the question is: is it true that for a new "universal" spatial format to be born it has to have at least read support in the closed source world?<br>
<br>
Duarte<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Mensagem original-----<br>
De: Matt Wilkie [mailto:<a href="mailto:maphew@gmail.com" target="_blank">maphew@gmail.com</a>]<br>
Enviada: terça-feira, 15 de Junho de 2010 22:52<br>
Para: <a href="mailto:gdal-dev@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">gdal-dev@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
Assunto: [gdal-dev] Re: ESRI file geodatabase support<br>
<br>
<br>
I think discussing a shapefile successor, or even perhaps a code sprint, is a<br>
very good topic for FOSS4G. This same thread that we're weaving now is/has<br>
happened on a number mailing lists and usually generated dozens of responses<br>
each time. The interest is clear. From my vantage the germinating seed<br>
crystal could be spatialite, but there seems to be some general reluctance<br>
to jump on board. I'm ignorant of the reasons for that, perhaps that will<br>
come out at FOSS4G; wish I could be there!<br>
<br>
Ivan: I personally welcome and will use a gdal/ogr that uses the currently<br>
installed arcgis libraries however for the health of the industry I'd like<br>
to see unencumbered access. Thanks for letting me know at least part of my<br>
ramblings are of interest<br>
<br>
cheers,<br>
<br>
-matt<br>
--<br>
View this message in context: <a href="http://osgeo-org.1803224.n2.nabble.com/gdal-dev-ESRI-file-geodatabase-support-tp5159756p5183957.html" target="_blank">http://osgeo-org.1803224.n2.nabble.com/gdal-dev-ESRI-file-geodatabase-support-tp5159756p5183957.html</a><br>
Sent from the GDAL - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.<br>
<br>
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