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<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Well, if SpatiaLite offers some “proper” benefits and
disseminates through all of the FOSS world, then it may get a strong enough
push even for ESRI to pick it up. It happened before… (kml?)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>If SL would:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>1)<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Be as fast as shapefile in
production settings, desktop and webgis<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>2)<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Offer SQL support, spatial
and otherwise, also through desktop tools like QGIS<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>3)<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Allow editing while serving
(even if for 1 editor only)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>4)<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Better support in QGIS than for
shapefile (take advantage of Spatial SQL, all other functionality)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>5)<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Same for MapServer,
GeoServer, gvSIG, et al.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>6)<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Allow easy managing of
rasters inside the .db file, through QGIS<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>7)<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>??more ideas/requests??<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Then it would be a very, very good contender… and the ball
would be kicked to “the other side”.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>And it seems we’re already there for some of the listed
features.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Duarte<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>De:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Eric Wolf
[mailto:ebwolf@gmail.com] <br>
<b>Enviada:</b> quinta-feira, 17 de Junho de 2010 17:33<br>
<b>Para:</b> Peter J Halls<br>
<b>Cc:</b> gdal-dev@lists.osgeo.org; Matt Wilkie<br>
<b>Assunto:</b> Re: [gdal-dev] Re: ESRI file geodatabase support<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Matt's chicken-and-egg point seems dead-on. Except that Jack
Dangermond abhors a vacuum and ESRI has been focused on higher-order issues
than file formats. They are trying to provide topological constraints in the
database (or file) and things like geometric networks (which are really just a
set of topologically consistent linear features). The good ol' Shapefile
doesn't even come close to cutting the mustard. ArcSDE imposes these on other
RDBMS. The Personal Geodatabases did it in MDBs. And the File Geodatabase does
it without dependency on Microsoft Jet.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Another way to look at the open spec issue (which echoes
ESRIs sentiment) is that it's rather easy to screw up topology constraints. As
Peter mentioned, SDE sometimes doesn't like Oracle tables created by GDAL. The
format of the tables may be fine - but the topological relations may not be
right. I'm betting ESRI created File Geodatabase mainly to get away from the
Personal Geodatabase because it was too easy to muck with the MDB in Access and
screw up the higher order relationships.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>File Geodatabases, like Shapefiles and Personal
Geodatabases, are intended as a means to exchange data. You export your data
from ArcSDE into one of these formats and give it to someone to use. Shapefiles
are stripped of topology. Personal Geodatabases only really work on platforms
Microsoft supports. File Geodatabases are the next logical step.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>SpatialLite seems like a really strong contender. How do we
get ESRI to play along?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br clear=all>
-=--=---=----=----=---=--=-=--=---=----=---=--=-=-<br>
Eric B. Wolf
New! 720-334-7734<br>
USGS Geographer<br>
Center of Excellence in GIScience<br>
PhD Student <br>
CU-Boulder - Geography<br>
<br>
GPG Public Key: <a href="http://www.h4h.net/ebwolf.public.key.txt">http://www.h4h.net/ebwolf.public.key.txt</a><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 1:21 AM, Peter J Halls <<a
href="mailto:P.Halls@york.ac.uk">P.Halls@york.ac.uk</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Another way to achieve interoperability is via a DBMS for
which there is an SDE implementation, although this may not be appropriate for
Matt Wilkie's requirements. It may not be always as easy as with
shapefiles but it does not have the limitations. Having said that, in our
Oracle environment I do have a problem getting SDE to recognise some spatial
datasets created with GDAL but have yet to prove what is happening to cause
this and so cannot point a finger of blame in any direction ...<br>
<br>
Best wishes,<br>
<span style='color:#888888'><br>
Peter</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<br>
Duarte Carreira wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Matt, the only reason I have seen presented for some
reluctance in pushing spatialite as a de facto standard following shapefile's
success, is not having a foothold in the closed source sector. That's the only
thing ESRI's fgdb could potentially offer, since the extra data types supported
will not be available outside ESRI's software (Terrain, Topology, Networks,
etc.).<br>
<br>
(As for interoperability with ESRI, its users can always export to shapefile.
Ofcourse I would prefer to directly read fgdb data but if not possible it's ok
too.)<br>
<br>
So the question is: is it true that for a new "universal" spatial
format to be born it has to have at least read support in the closed source
world?<br>
<br>
Duarte<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Mensagem original-----<br>
De: Matt Wilkie [mailto:<a href="mailto:maphew@gmail.com" target="_blank">maphew@gmail.com</a>]<br>
Enviada: terça-feira, 15 de Junho de 2010 22:52<br>
Para: <a href="mailto:gdal-dev@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">gdal-dev@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
Assunto: [gdal-dev] Re: ESRI file geodatabase support<br>
<br>
<br>
I think discussing a shapefile successor, or even perhaps a code sprint, is a<br>
very good topic for FOSS4G. This same thread that we're weaving now is/has<br>
happened on a number mailing lists and usually generated dozens of responses<br>
each time. The interest is clear. From my vantage the germinating seed<br>
crystal could be spatialite, but there seems to be some general reluctance<br>
to jump on board. I'm ignorant of the reasons for that, perhaps that will<br>
come out at FOSS4G; wish I could be there!<br>
<br>
Ivan: I personally welcome and will use a gdal/ogr that uses the currently<br>
installed arcgis libraries however for the health of the industry I'd like<br>
to see unencumbered access. Thanks for letting me know at least part of my<br>
ramblings are of interest<br>
<br>
cheers,<br>
<br>
-matt<br>
--<br>
View this message in context: <a
href="http://osgeo-org.1803224.n2.nabble.com/gdal-dev-ESRI-file-geodatabase-support-tp5159756p5183957.html"
target="_blank">http://osgeo-org.1803224.n2.nabble.com/gdal-dev-ESRI-file-geodatabase-support-tp5159756p5183957.html</a><br>
Sent from the GDAL - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.<br>
<br>
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<p class=MsoNormal>-- <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
Peter J Halls, GIS Advisor, University of York<br>
Telephone: 01904 433806 Fax: 01904 433740<br>
Snail mail: Computing Service, University of York, Heslington, York YO10 5DD<br>
This message has the status of a private and personal communication<br>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></p>
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