[GRASS5] Re: [GRASSLIST:3815] openOSX again

[Michael Barton]

On Jul 9, 2004, at 12:33 AM, grass5-request at grass.itc.it wrote:

>
>
> If these problems continue, perhaps we should remove mention of OpenOSX
> from the GRASS website and more heavily promote Lorenzo Moretti's great
> work[*] as the situation as it exists reflects badly on the GRASS
> community. Their link to the GRASS website leads to a non-existant page
> Baylor Univ.
>
> see:  http://grass.ibiblio.org/grass50/binary/mac_os_x/

These issues are somewhat disturbing. I agree that they could reflect 
poorly on GRASS. It is too bad, as OpenOSX potentially is a very nice 
alternative way to get open source applications onto a Mac.


>
>
> [*] http://wwwamb.bologna.enea.it/forgrass/
>
> Perhaps we should do that regardless of any problems people have with
> any 3rd party vendor.
>
>
>
> IIRC, updating things so people can use the Mac/Aqua version of tcltk
> for the tcltkgrass menu system was only minor changes?
>
> see  http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gis.grass.devel/2681
>
> & in response to the problems listed there:
> 1. The web browser bit is already done for 5.7's gui help system.

Also GRASS uses the currently selected web browser (at least in OSX 
10.3) in 5.3 if you enter the term 'open' in the browser name of the 
g.manual dialog. This doesn't seem to work for the ctrl-middle button 
style help for each command, but perhaps there is a way to configure 
this in the 'configure html' dialog.

> 2. The xwininfo problem is solved in 5.7 by d.info.

This does not seem to be an issue for current versions of tcltkgrass. 
The major problem that I recall with tcltkgrass under 5.3 (and maybe 
5.7) is that the menu bar wants to incrementally increase its vertical 
dimension each time you start tcltkgrass. I *think* this is tied to the 
use of wm geometry somehow, but could never figure it out. I 'fixed' it 
with a hack that does a menu resize each time you close tcltkgrass.

> 3. easy to change

Where is this an issue?

> 4. no action needed??

This does not seem to be an issue.

>
> maybe Michael Barton has already fixed some of these issues
> incidentally?

Prior to Lorenzo's packages, the main issue from a user interface/GUI 
perspective was finding a simple way of getting the libraries needed to 
run GRASS and tcltkgrass. The only options were compiling from source, 
using Fink to compile (but sometimes the libraries were out  of date), 
or using OpenOSX. Marcus provided a set of binary Proj4 and GDAL 
libraries, but one still had to be able to go into the terminal and use 
the sudo command to install them. TclTk remained problematic.

By making these available in a single package, Lorenzo solved this 
issue. Furthermore, by putting all the binaries into Mac pkg format, 
Lorenzo has made GRASS as easy to install as OpenOSX. More importantly, 
he has kept up with GRASS changes by making versions 5.3 and 5.7 
available (when I'm back in the office at the end of the month, I'll be 
able to update my mirror), and incorporating updates to tcltkgrass.

AFAICT, GRASS runs as well under OSX now as any other platform and 
better than most, judging from the discussion on this list. The main 
difficulties I've run into using/building a GUI under 5.7, for example, 
are ones that are problematic across all GRASS platforms (the 
G_PARSER() problem, for example). For Mac users, I can't see any 
advantages in using the OpenOSX package now, and several disadvantages.

> NVIZ is another story...

My understanding is that NVIZ would need some significant changes to be 
able to work with a non-X11 version of TclTk. Given this and the 
current uncertainty over the direction of the next generation GRASS GUI 
(I've heard several interesting ideas proposed), it does not seem worth 
the effort to invest in a special Mac version that uses a native 
Aqua/TclTk combination. I'm all for doing an Aqua version (though using 
X11 is a non-issue as Apple provides it in pkg format for easy 
installation); it is the TclTk part that I'm uncertain of. If GRASS 
ends up sticking with TclTk, I am happy to work in that direction. 
FWIW, I think that cross-platform portability is a strong point of 
GRASS and should be kept as much as possible.

>
>
> fwiw, we purchased the OpenOSX CD in 2002 or so when the book first 
> came
> out and had no problems with them back then.

One of my Spanish colleagues bought a CD last fall (2003). It installed 
very well. However, in running it, I ran into several annoying bugs and 
lockups. I don't know whether these were a function of using 5.0.2 
(instead of 5.0.3) or something in the OpenOSX setup. We switched to a 
Fink version of TclTk and a current GRASS binary (5.0.3, then 5.3), and 
everything ran smoothly.

Michael
____________________
C. Michael Barton, Professor
School of Human Origins, Cultures, & Societies
PO Box 872402
Arizona State University
Tempe, AZ  85287-2402
USA

Phone: 480-965-6262
Fax: 480-965-7671
www: <www.public.asu.edu/~cmbarton>