[GRASS5] GRASS release policy needed

Fri Jul 22 02:55:47 EDT 2005

On Thu, Jul 21, 2005 at 11:22:35PM -0700, Michael Barton wrote:
> I'm not real savvy on this. But, judging from a few other open source
> programs, it seems that perhaps a more efficient way to do this is:
> 
> Announce a new release (you did that, of course).
> 
> Specify a limited bug fix PERIOD (1 month?)

Did that as well.

> Fix all the remaining bugs possible in that period AND try to get the bug
> tracker up to date for that period.

More or less impossible (see my other mail from a few minutes ago).

> Freeze the code (Inkscape has a brief chill period prior to hard freeze
> where people can finish bug fixes but not start new ones, or something along
> that line).
> 
> Release.
> 
> In other words, do it by time period rather than by getting a set of bugs
> fixed. At the moment, it seems we are doing some of both and enforcing
> either is difficult.

I tried by time period [1], some other developers/power users insisted on
getting a set of bugs fixed. Finally the intended release stalled and
time out error (for me).

Markus

[1] http://grass.itc.it/pipermail/grass5/2005-June/018798.html

> My 1 cent worth
> 
> Michael
> 
> 
> 
> On 7/21/05 12:44 PM, "Maciek Sieczka" <werchowyna at epf.pl> wrote:
> 
> > From: "Markus Neteler" <neteler at itc.it>
> > 
> >> Hi developers and power users,
> >> 
> >> in June I made a try to release GRASS 6.0.1:
> >> http://grass.itc.it/pipermail/grass5/2005-June/018798.html
> >> 
> >> It turned out to be more complicated:
> >> http://grass.itc.it/pipermail/grass5/2005-July/thread.html#18820
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Some observations
> >> 
> >> 1. the bugtracker is full of (old) bugs
> > 
> > As I promised this I will try to take care of regarding 6.x bugs. Maybe 5.4+
> > as well. Sooner or later.
> > 
> >> 2. some of the bugs are known for years, but nobody is interested/able
> >>   to fix them
> >> 3. some of the well know bugs have hold the intended release, but see 2.
> > 
> > For a regular user the indicator of Grass stability and progress is not the
> > changelog, CVS content, all the Grass lists discussions and plans etc. The
> > regular user, beginner or Grass wannabie is mainly concerned with:
> > 
> > 1. What functionality has been added when compared to previous release.
> > 2. Have the bugs and doc insufficiencies/errors present in previous release
> > been fixed.
> > 
> > According to point 1 Grass is doing very good. User can see and feel that
> > Grass improves.
> > 
> > According to point 2 not really so good. As we all know, in spite of the
> > amount of fixes in the changelog, bugtracker is full of old bugs, sometimes
> > also bugs which actually got fixed, but where not closed by those who fixed.
> > Lack of comitment and coordination here.
> > 
> > Propably silly question, but what do I care - how do you think Grass could
> > obtain a developer dedicated only to fixing things? Not improving a lot, not
> > developing new wonders but "simply" cleaning up the code whenever a bug is
> > reported, keeping in touch with reporters so they won't feel ignored,
> > keeping docs actual, extending them whenever explanation is not sufficient,
> > adding links to selected best, actual external sources of information on the
> > topic? If not capable of doing the work alone, he would be in charge of
> > gathering support, actively looking for relevant information and encouraging
> > appropriate people to take care of/help with the issue, instead of waiting
> > until somebody volunteers. Or at least he could recognize what are the
> > chances that people capable of fixing the bug would do it and when. PR
> > manager/developer?
> > 
> > If Grass would have someone like this, it's image would really improve in
> > the eyes of regular (naive?) users. "Look, any bug I report gets fixed
> > within a month. Kill me, them Grass coders are reliable. There is one
> > pending for ages but at least they never ignored my input." instead of
> > "Darn, I reported that bug half a year ago and nothing. They haven't even
> > replied.".
> > 
> > I guess that's how Grass users without insight into the Grass developement
> > more/less think. That's what I soemtimes thought until I started to read
> > Grass, Gdal, Proj, Freegis etc lists, building Grass and friends from
> > source, trying to help others with their problems with Grass. All that made
> > me realise all is not that simple and that I can't expect and demand (hard
> > to resist...), that I need to contribute somehow also, that developers are
> > giving their time with little or no direct financial reward, that it's hard
> > for them mantain somebody else's code. But regular Grass users, and, more
> > important, most future Grass users, are folks who install an rpm and join
> > the list when they have a problem. Or they fill in a bugtracker entry and
> > expect the bug to fixed - just because they report it.
> > 
> > I guess first reaction of most Grass developers would be "MOST of bugs are
> > getting fixed". Yes, most. But no matter how fast could you BMW be, how
> > shiny, modern, cool, how little gas it needs and how cheap (OK, not BMW) if
> > one tyre is flat. And even if the bug considered is not that serious as a
> > flat tyre, it cannot be neglected - becauase of the psychological aspect and
> > the publicity. Grass is not only as good as it is. It is rather as good as
> > it is appears/is known to be. When more people talk about Grass in bad
> > words, Grass is bad. And more people are more likely to talk bad about
> > Grass - because the majority of those who try Grass in future will be
> > complete ignorants, since Grass and friends are being shipped in debs and
> > rpms on a regular basis by all major distros. Plus Windows installers
> > comming soon (?), alert red. What's more, such people who install Grass
> > once, have their first problem (bugs will be always, even I know this) and
> > quit after a month of waiting for a remedy are the worse ones for Grass's
> > publicity, because it will be impossible to change their mind, since they
> > had quit. I can see there is a recognition for a need of support for
> > newbies - same and same questions are answered patiently by developers on
> > the list often, admire. Yet there is no such recognition in terms of bugs I
> > think. Bugs are neglected to often.
> > 
> > What's more, even if the bug gets fixed, the average bug reporter can't
> > benefit from that when he is not informed, which happens. And he has to at
> > least know it is fixed, becaue he won't be able to check for himself from
> > CVS. He will wait for next rpm/deb/exe instead. So release often,
> > absolutely. And inform always.
> > 
> > Reassuming, from my ex-naive, regular user point of view, any bugs reported
> > should be high on priority list. I'm going to help with that to the extent
> > I'm capable of - cleanup the bugtracker, help to manage it in future as time
> > allows. Yet a committed and really knowledgable general "fixing coordinator"
> > is highly required IMHO. But, who am I fooling - that would be a full time
> > job...
> > 
> > I hope my naiveness will be forgiven to me - anyway I compared Grass to BMW!
> > 
> > My 0,01 PLN.
> > 
> > Maciek
> > 
> > P.S.
> > I'm not writing this all to hold off 6.0.1 release, I hope it's clear. I
> > never meant it if that's your impression. Please release as you recon it's
> > best. I just find this an ocassion to rise the issue of bugs in Grass.
> > 
> 
> ____________________
> C. Michael Barton, Professor of Anthropology
> School of Human Evolution and Social Change
> PO Box 872402
> Arizona State University
> Tempe, AZ  85287-2402
> USA
> 
> Phone: 480-965-6262
> Fax: 480-965-7671
> www: <www.public.asu.edu/~cmbarton>
> 

-- 
Markus Neteler     <neteler itc it>       http://mpa.itc.it
ITC-irst -  Centro per la Ricerca Scientifica e Tecnologica
MPBA - Predictive Models for Biol. & Environ. Data Analysis
Via Sommarive, 18        -       38050 Povo (Trento), Italy