[GRASS-dev] Re: [GRASS-CVS] michael: grass6/lib/init
gis_set.tcl, 1.24, 1.25
Michael Barton
michael.barton at asu.edu
Mon Jul 17 23:26:09 EDT 2006
My concern is not with the terminology per se. There is still a considerable
lack of consistency in terminology from one GIS platform to another. GRASS
terminology is a little obtuse, but not excessively so. The concepts are
pretty straightforward once you learn them.
My concern is that the way the startup works, a user must confront and
understand GRASS-specific terms--ones used in no other GIS--before he or she
can even start the program. People I introduce to GRASS always find that a
big stumbling block. This complaint about the startup has come across the
user list regularly too.
Maybe the best solution is to change the startup somehow. However, changing
the way GRASS starts is much more involved than simply changing the language
in the startup screen.
For example, most new users I've talked with indeed take 'location' to mean
project location--as it was originally intended I suspect. Then they are put
off by the need to specify the extents and resolution of their location
before the program will even start. But when I explain that they only REALLY
need to specify the projection parameters (latlon; utm, datum, and zone;
etc.), they have a much easier time of it. What really matters most in a
location is projection information in the WIND and PROJ files, not the
extents and resolution--which can be changed easily during a GRASS session.
But this is not conveyed by the term "location" alone.
Anyway, I was trying to respond to numerous comments about the startup being
confusing to a new but knowledgeable user. The startup screen gives people
their first impression of the program. So whatever goes there should
encourage them to work with the software. I agree that what I stuck in the
new screen should be improved, but also feel that some hand-holding to new
users would be worthwhile.
Cheers,
Michael
__________________________________________
Michael Barton, Professor of Anthropology
School of Human Evolution & Social Change
Center for Social Dynamics & Complexity
Arizona State University
phone: 480-965-6213
fax: 480-965-7671
www: http://www.public.asu.edu/~cmbarton
> From: Helena Mitasova <hmitaso at unity.ncsu.edu>
> Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 21:25:46 -0400
> To: Michael Barton <michael.barton at asu.edu>
> Cc: Markus Neteler <neteler at itc.it>, <grass-dev at grass.itc.it>
> Subject: Re: [GRASS-dev] Re: [GRASS-CVS] michael: grass6/lib/init gis_set.tcl,
> 1.24, 1.25
>
>
> On Jul 17, 2006, at 4:21 PM, Michael Barton wrote:
>
>> Markus,
>>
>> I'm happy to see suggestions. Here is my rational for wording
>> changes. Maybe
>> there can be better wording than my quick fix.
>>
>> I'm trying to think of a user who knows something about GIS and is
>> opening
>> GRASS for the first time. Before she or he can do anything--even
>> start the
>> program--they have to choose a "database", "location", and "mapset".
>>
>> But what is a database? Of course everyone knows that a database is an
>> attribute table or related set of attribute tables defined in a data
>> dictionary. Except that's not what a GRASS database is. It is
>> simply the
>> directory/folder where "locations" are stored.
>>
>> But what is a location? Of course that is a place, maybe where your
>> study
>> area is located. But how do you select that? Except in GRASS, a
>> "location"
>> is really a folder with definitions of the projection (including
>> 'geographic
>> projections' like latlon), coordinate system, and optionally the
>> extents
>> defining a particular part of the world. More people would probably
>> understand what we mean if we ask them to choose the projection/
>> coordinate
>> system than to choose a "location".
>>
>> Then you have to select a "mapset". But what is a mapset. In GRASS,
>> that's
>> where your GIS files are stored--which is what this hypothetical
>> new user
>> has really wanted to get at all along.
>>
>> Every time I try to explain how to start GRASS, I have to explain
>> what a
>> "database", "location", and "mapset" is before the person can even get
>> started working with the program. Any GIS will have some jargon that a
>> person will have to get through (e.g., 'theme' instead of layer).
>> But it
>> would be nice to not have to hit someone with GRASS-specific jargon
>> before
>> they even get the program opened. Of course you can press the help
>> button,
>> but many people would just like to start the program before doing
>> anything
>> else.
>>
>> So I was trying to build in some translations of GRASS jargon to help
>> someone get started. I dropped "GIS Database" because it's not used
>> much.
>> But location and mapset are used a lot. Of course this made for
>> some awkward
>> phraseology, as you noticed. I really did mean "projection location"
>> instead of project location.
>
> I have been using GRASS for too long for making any suggestion
> useful for new users (GIS database, location and mapset has always
> worked for me)
> but I found projection location very confusing for both old users and
> potentially for people who may be new to GRASS but know what
> projection means.
>
> I like project location (I found that people have a quick grasp of
> location
> when I describe it as a project and that you have to select a
> coordinate system for it)
> and mapset people usually get right away.
> I don't have an opinion about what to use instead of GIS database, I
> haven't seen
> people complaining about that either.
>>
>> Maybe "Select an existing 'location' (projection/coordinate system)
>> and GIS
>> Mapset..."???
>
> there are additional buttons for selection of projection so "project
> location"
> sounds good enough for me
>>
>> GIS Mapset doesn't sound too awkward to me. But maybe to others?
>
> I think that Mapset is sufficient - there is already GIS in the title.
>>
>> Suggestions?
>
> I have written this answer before reading a response from Markus - I
> did not even think
> about the problems that would cause the change in the startup with
> documentation, tutorials,
> and description of modules etc. - Markus is right, we should
> stick with the terminology that we have unless there is a really
> compelling
> reason to change it - it is not too bad and I found
> that people get it pretty quickly (compared e.g. to the region
> management or the terminology
> used in other systems).
>
> Helena
>
>
>
>>
>> Michael
>> __________________________________________
>> Michael Barton, Professor of Anthropology
>> School of Human Evolution & Social Change
>> Center for Social Dynamics and Complexity
>> Arizona State University
>>
>> phone: 480-965-6213
>> fax: 480-965-7671
>> www: http://www.public.asu.edu/~cmbarton
>>
>>
>>> From: Markus Neteler <neteler at itc.it>
>>> Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 19:35:56 +0200
>>> To: <grass-dev at grass.itc.it>
>>> Subject: [GRASS-dev] Re: [GRASS-CVS] michael: grass6/lib/init
>>> gis_set.tcl,
>>> 1.24, 1.25
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> a few questions:
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jul 17, 2006 at 07:28:42PM +0200, grass at intevation.de wrote:
>>>> Author: michael
>>>>
>>>> Update of /grassrepository/grass6/lib/init
>>>> In directory doto:/tmp/cvs-serv30054
>>>>
>>>> Modified Files:
>>>> gis_set.tcl
>>>> Log Message:
>>>> update exec and eval exec statements to properly parse arguments
>>>>
>>>> Index: gis_set.tcl
>>>> ===================================================================
>>>> RCS file: /grassrepository/grass6/lib/init/gis_set.tcl,v
>>>> retrieving revision 1.24
>>>> retrieving revision 1.25
>>>> diff -u -d -r1.24 -r1.25
>>>> --- gis_set.tcl 24 Jun 2006 19:33:59 -0000 1.24
>>>> +++ gis_set.tcl 17 Jul 2006 17:28:40 -0000 1.25
>>>> @@ -312,10 +312,10 @@
>>>> pack $introtitle -side top
>>>>
>>>> .frame0.intro.msg tag configure all -justify center
>>>> - .frame0.intro.msg insert end [G_msg "Welcome to GRASS GIS
>>>> Version
>>>> $GRASSVERSION\n"]
>>>> + .frame0.intro.msg insert end [G_msg "Welcome to GRASS GIS
>>>> version
>>>> $GRASSVERSION\n"]
>>>> .frame0.intro.msg insert end [G_msg "The world's leading
>>>> open source
>>>> GIS\n\n"]
>>>> - .frame0.intro.msg insert end [G_msg "Select an existing
>>>> project location
>>>> and mapset\n"]
>>>> - .frame0.intro.msg insert end [G_msg "or define a new project
>>>> location\n"]
>>>> + .frame0.intro.msg insert end [G_msg "Select an existing
>>>> projection
>>>> location and GIS mapset\n"]
>>>
>>> ... what does "existing projection location" mean?
>>> I only know "existing project location". The change adds confusion
>>> in my
>>> opinion.
>>> If projected is meant, it is not right since latlong (usually) and
>>> xy (always)
>>> are
>>> unprojected.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> + .frame0.intro.msg insert end [G_msg "or define a new projection
>>>> location\n"]
>>>
>>> ...also here.
>>>
>>>> .frame0.intro.msg tag add all 1.0 end
>>>> .frame0.intro.msg configure -state disabled
>>>>
>>>> @@ -338,7 +338,7 @@
>>>> label .frame0.frameDB.left.label \
>>>> -anchor {n} \
>>>> -justify right \
>>>> - -text [G_msg "Path to location: \n(GRASS Database)"]
>>>> + -text [G_msg "Path to location : "]
>>>
>>> "GRASS Database" is a widely used term in the GRASS literature,
>>> but sure if it should be removed.
>>>
>>>
>>>> entry .frame0.frameDB.mid.entry \
>>>> -relief {sunken} \
>>>> @@ -408,7 +408,7 @@
>>>>
>>>> label .frame0.frameMS.label \
>>>> -anchor {w} \
>>>> - -text [G_msg "Accessible Mapsets"]
>>>> + -text [G_msg "(Accessible) GIS Mapsets"]
>>>
>>> ... this re-reverted the last fix...
>>> The () do not add information in my opionion.
>>>
>>>
>>>> listbox .frame0.frameMS.listbox \
>>>> -relief {sunken} \
>>>> @@ -460,7 +460,7 @@
>>>>
>>>> label .frame0.frameNMS.first.label \
>>>> -anchor {n} \
>>>> - -text [G_msg "Create new mapset\nin selected location"]
>>>> + -text [G_msg "Create new GIS mapset\nin currrent location"]
>>>
>>> I am also not sure of that. In the beginning nothing is selected,
>>> so there is no currrent location.
>>>
>>>> entry .frame0.frameNMS.second.entry \
>>>> -relief {sunken} \
>>>> @@ -495,7 +495,7 @@
>>>>
>>>> label .frame0.frameNMS.fourth.label \
>>>> -anchor {n} \
>>>> - -text [G_msg "\nDefine new location by:"]
>>>> + -text [G_msg "Define new projection location"]
>>>
>>> ... again confusing (for me).
>>>
>>>>
>>>> button .frame0.frameNMS.fifth.button \
>>>>
>>>
>>> It seems that this needs to be discussed again: at least I
>>> would like to better understand most of the changes.
>>>
>>> thanks
>>>
>>> Markus
>>>
>>>
>>
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>
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