<div dir="ltr">Could posts on the mailing list automatically be posted on GitHub Discussions and vice versa? That's how the GRASS Nabble forums work right? Those look great. <div>As a counterpoint to the arguments against using GitHub Discussions, I think it would be great to record conversations about development, use, and community on the same platform as the code. </div><div>Best, Brendan</div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Jan 17, 2021 at 11:14 AM Zoltan <<a href="mailto:zoltans@geograph.co.za">zoltans@geograph.co.za</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
Hi List,<br>
My 2 cents would be to stay with mailing list only.<br>
GRASS is not my focus, but I keep a keen interest on what is
happening because I do use it when I have project.<br>
<br>
For me the benefit is that a ML keeps me <u>reactive</u> - I can
quickly parse the email and decide whether to file it or delete it.<br>
Discussion/Bulletin boards and forums force the user to be <u>proactive</u>.<br>
I for one would not log into the forum until I need something - that
means that for many months I would loose track of GRASS progress and
direction.<br>
<br>
Forums are also a pain to search. I am (right now) on the zoneminder
forum trying to find a solution to 2 problems I have.<br>
I have spent over an hour trying to find a discussion close enough
to match my problem (so as not to do a lazy new post), and I have
just now created a new post on zoneminder.<br>
<br>
The traffic on grass-dev and grass -user is fairly low - I would
even merge the two - especially as you, the devs, answer on the
grass-user ML anyway!<br>
<br>
But I am happy watching 2 GRASS MLs.<br>
<br>
Please consider <u>not</u> moving to a forum style platform.<br>
<br>
Thanks and regards,<br>
Zoltan<br>
<br>
<div>On 2021-01-17 16:27, Stefan Blumentrath
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre>Dear all,
In general, I do agree with Moritz on this.
In addition to the risk of more fragmented communication, I do appreciate the fact that ML-discussion is archived. Furthermore, GitHub discussion seems to be a feature that locks us more into GitHub and would it make more complicated if we should be forced to move to another platform (given the proprietary nature of GitHub).
I do also see that some discussion has moved to github issues/PRs, but that is probably only natural, esp. when point of the discussion is specifics of an implementation / change.
However, to address both valid issues (demand for web-based forum and a coherent communication), we could probably to three things:
1. Encourage all contributors to discuss/mention more significant changes on the ML.
2. Promote nabble [<a href="http://osgeo-org.1560.x6.nabble.com/Grass-Dev-f3991897.html" target="_blank">http://osgeo-org.1560.x6.nabble.com/Grass-Dev-f3991897.html</a>] on our github repository
3. Check whether it would be feasible to sign up to nabble / ML with OAuth/github to make integration more seamless. I have no idea though if this would be feasible at all. Maybe OSGeo admins know?...
Cheers
Stefan
-----Original Message-----
From: grass-dev <a href="mailto:grass-dev-bounces@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank"><grass-dev-bounces@lists.osgeo.org></a> On Behalf Of Moritz Lennert
Sent: søndag 17. januar 2021 13:51
To: <a href="mailto:grass-dev@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">grass-dev@lists.osgeo.org</a>; Vaclav Petras <a href="mailto:wenzeslaus@gmail.com" target="_blank"><wenzeslaus@gmail.com></a>; <a href="mailto:grass-dev@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank">grass-dev@lists.osgeo.org</a>
Subject: Re: [GRASS-dev] Should we use GitHub Discussions?
Am 17. Januar 2021 06:31:22 MEZ schrieb Vaclav Petras <a href="mailto:wenzeslaus@gmail.com" target="_blank"><wenzeslaus@gmail.com></a>:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre>Dear all,
What about enabling GitHub Discussions [1] on grass repo? Enabling is
easy [2], so the question really is, do we want them? They are for open
ended discussions, questions, etc. Right, like mailing list, but on
GitHub. We do get asked periodically for a web-based (as opposed to
email-based) forum which is what GitHub Discussions can fulfill. I'm
not saying we should abandon the mailing list, but GitHub Discussions
may be easier for some users, so it would open another avenue for
people to ask or get engaged on a platform we are already using anyway.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre>I have never used GitHub discussions, so I have no opinion as such on its usefulness for us.
I do have a more fundamental issue, however: ever since we've moved to GitHub, discussions about important feature decisions seem to me to be more and more dispersed across PRs and less centrally visible. Currently, there are discussions about starting GRASS GIS by default without a terminal window [1], how to handle GUI startup when the last used mapset is not available, whether GRASS GIS can be considered as an "app" and if yes, whether this should be reflected in the name of the startup script [3], and probably others I forgot or that I am not aware of.
All of these are interesting discussions with solid points made, but I have the feeling that they are really confidential, involving only a very limited number of developers because others do not think that they the PR as such is relevant to them, and so they miss the fact that there are discussions going on that will have an impact on how GRASS GIS runs and/or is perceived.
If we create yet another forum I'm afraid that things will get even worse.
Maybe this is just a sign that our community is growing so rapidly and activity has increased so much that no one can follow every important discussion, but I do think this is also linked to the multiplication of tools used. Maybe it's also due to my bad personal organization if the information flows.
I would be happy to hear other opinions about this (and possibly some best practices on how others handle this problem). Depending on the answers to this, I think we might have to have a fundamental discussion on development decision making that ensures a somewhat larger group, while not stifling the enthousiasm behind the different initiatives and proposals.
Moritz
[1] <a href="https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2FOSGeo%2Fgrass%2Fpull%2F1221&data=04%7C01%7C%7C7815841b8b0e479ab31e08d8bae68a66%7C6cef373021314901831055b3abf02c73%7C0%7C0%7C637464846638679337%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=zBga3nPQrfO6xRMH1J%2B062N4%2BaxZQu%2FvgBmN7%2FPRVS8%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank">https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2FOSGeo%2Fgrass%2Fpull%2F1221&data=04%7C01%7C%7C7815841b8b0e479ab31e08d8bae68a66%7C6cef373021314901831055b3abf02c73%7C0%7C0%7C637464846638679337%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=zBga3nPQrfO6xRMH1J%2B062N4%2BaxZQu%2FvgBmN7%2FPRVS8%3D&reserved=0</a>
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</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre cols="72">--
=============================================
Zoltan Szecsei GPrGISc 0031
Geograph (Pty) Ltd.
GIS and Photogrammetric Services
Cape Town, South Africa.
Mobile: +27-83-6004028
<a href="http://www.geograph.co.za" target="_blank">www.geograph.co.za</a>
=============================================
</pre>
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