[GRASSLIST:1184] Re: creating a desktop GIS application using GRASS

[Gustavo Alcides Concheiro Perez]

  > GIS itself is a broad subject so GRASS has the potential of a higher
> number of installations. We should seek ways to raise that (what we
> are already doing, the transition from the first author group to
> a join world-wide and more stucture developement community is going fine, 
> I'd say).
> There are several possible reasons for this observations of you.
> The potential of money for GNU/Linux developments or Free GIS
> development is almost the same. I even think that there is more
> potential per GIS user for Free Software GIS.

Definitely so!  A *LOT* of people are using GRASS for GIS who have never 
used GIS before, and would still not use it if there was no free choice, 
as the cost would make it impossible.  Yes, big projects with big money 
DO get to use non-free GIS applications, and they are likely to continue 
to do so.  So be it.  But I believe the key issue here is that there 
these *NEW* GIS users for whom GRASS made GIS possible at all.  These 
are a bazillion new small projects, and students, and limited budget or 
even near-zero budget projects, users for whom free GIS is GIS, period. 
  GRASS, by lowering the cost barrier, is finally putting GIS at the 
reach of many many people who need it, just like Linux finally put Unix 
power at the reach of the common guy (like myself).  You could make the 
case that some commercial implementations of Unix are technically 
superior to Linux.  You can as well make the case that this is totally 
irrelevant, since Linux is what people are using.   A very few people 
will pay 20,000 Euros for a proprietary Unix workstation, and that's 
just peachy.  MILLIONS will get a PC with Linux, though.  Same for 
databases: I can't afford Oracle, MySQL and PostgreSQL put RDBMSs within 
my and many other people's reach.  And ditto for a lot of other free 
software (Apache, GIMP, Python, PHP, TeX).  This software is there ready 
to work synergistically with GRASS, and to help millions of users grow 
into power users.

The pyramid, once again.  For all practical purposes, Unix is Linux. 
And GIS could be GRASS.


 > Of course you are right, we should make GRASS development and
 > contribution to it more attractive and fun if we can.

Good point!  Perhaps we should echo Linus:  Linux should be *FUN*?  GIS 
should be *fun*, and it can be, with GRASS.

Suggestion: link GRASS to FlightGear.  Use GRASS to create and analyse 
geographic data, then get FlightGear and *FLY* over your info.
When I told this to some people who work in biogeography, that I wanted 
to fly over my fish distribution data, they went crazy, they want that.
They want to have the ecosystems mapped in 3d and move fly around them.
I tried (some on the list may remember) but was too difficult, and I 
have more pressing matters.  But I still want to do that.

And besides the serious visualization issues, it would be 
FUUUUUUUUUUN!!!!! :-P


> There have been many in the past, but GRASS fell in a hole that
> we are now crawling out again. Bringing clear freedom protecting
> licensing terms to GRASS were an important step in doing so,
> otherwise GRASS would have died the canabalised way.
> We need to continue that clear way without getting fuzzy again.

Put GRASS on a Live Linux CD and a choice of pre-packaged modules with 
datasets: a global dataset, localized data for your country-region, 
specialized datasets for diff disciplines, &c.  Sort this all out for 
the user.  Give him reasonable defaults, and pre-arranged mapsets.  MAKE 
IT EASY, MAKE IT SIMPLE, MAKE IT *FUN*.  Get the newby (read ``12 year 
old girl doing a school project'') hit the ground running.  Keep the 
full power of GRASS, but *hide* it behind reasonable defaults and 
simplified interactions so it won't overwhelm.  Start CD, choose, 
choose, pick, enter data, choose, change a little, export your map.

Then give this CDs for free, in high schools and colleges.


> Also GRASS is bound into the framework of other Free Software 
> for geoprocessing. It might be that they will tackle part
> of the proprietary tasks. I basically see that the other way round
> Free Software is catching up fast on almost all areas.

Yes, but it's still too difficult and intimidating for a newby.  And the 
integration is still lacking.


> The clear Free Software licensing of GRASS has helped it a lot
> to regain credit with users and developers in the last years.

That's 100% correct.

> We know have GRASS available on some scientific GNU/Linux distributions
> which can directly run off the cdrom drive.

True, and they are useless as they are now.  *I* can use them.  Someone 
new to GIS and Linux and GRASS won't.  Perhaps we need a simpleGRASS?


> New efforts go into documentation and the German Grass User Association 
> has made GRASS beginner courses and will now send a flayer to many
> instititutions in Germany to promote GRASS.

Yes!   And we need more, and we need MORE!  Perhaps we could put a 
simpleGRASS with web interface, so people can try it on the web first? 
  That would be a *MAJOR* contribution for many people, who have a bunch 
of sites in lat-long and want them on a sensible simple map.  Sort of 
Mapserver, but more interactive, choose your colors, choose your icons, 
&c.  That will bring users to GRASS, and users attract developers (and 
maybe funds :)


> GRASS under GNU GPL has come a long way!

True, true, very true.  Personal experience: I'd wanted to learn GIS for 
*years*.  I finally could do it with GRASS.


Best,

-Gustavo