[Ica-osgeo-labs] [Board] [geoforall-ab] geo4all relationship

Mon Nov 30 18:12:56 PST 2015

Dear Maxi, 

I’m still not fully convinced why relationship between OSGeo and Geo4All is so urgent issue to OSGeo board. If we don’t make a fast decision on this, will there be any fatal consequences followed?

Kind regards, 

신상희
---
Shin, Sanghee
Gaia3D, Inc. - The GeoSpatial Company
http://www.gaia3d.com 

> 2015. 11. 30., 오후 6:27, Massimiliano Cannata <massimiliano.cannata at supsi.ch> 작성:
> 
> Dear All, Jody, Suchit,
> I would like to gratefully thanks Jody for adding his lighting contribution to the document that three academic professors like Venka, Helena and myself have so poorly redacted so that "The original was pretty bad with many off topic questions .." . I would also like to remind that that Venka is member of the Advisory Board and Regional Chairs for the Asia Region, while Helena is regional Chair for the North America Region.
> 
> From my point of view, the board need a fast decision about G4A organization structure. If not, from my point of view we should just remove links from OSGeo main page and then renegotiate later after G4A have taken his decision.
> 
> Best,
> Maxi
> 
> 
> 
> 2015-11-29 15:34 GMT+01:00 Suchith Anand <Suchith.Anand at nottingham.ac.uk <mailto:Suchith.Anand at nottingham.ac.uk>>:
> Hi Jody,
> 
> Thanks for this info. My suggestion is that we also allow the Geo4All community to provide inputs and work on the various scenarios provided and make it detailed before the AB members vote. So my suggestion for the timeline for this is
> 
> till Dec 15th - All community members to provide inputs/feedbacks for the scenarios
> Dec16th -Jan 10th - AB members to vote on their choice of scenario
> 
> 
> The scenarios proposed should also focus on the fundamental point that you raised - "are you happy with OSGeo signing MOUs to add new members to GeoForAll, or do you want to be an osgeo subcommittee and do it yourself, …. or do you want to set up a new legal entity."
> 
> It is important that there is strong checks in place for ensuring Open Principles in Geoeducation are safeguarded in the longterm and that is why it is very important that MoUs are ONLY signed with like minded organisations . This will ensure that in future also no MoUs are signed with any organisations who might have properitery interests or agenda . We have to ensure that all the good work and efforts put in by colleagues globally for Open Principles in Geoeducation is protected. Hence, it is important that OSGeo (i.e OSGeo Board) should  be the final decision maker on all MoUs on behalf of Geo4All (as we are doing now). Once OSGeo Board approves an MoU with an external organisation, then the OSGeo President can sign the MoU with that organisation. 
> 
> The Advisory Board has done excellent work to bring in strategic inputs from the wider Geo community for expanding the Geo4All initiative and we need to take steps to strengthen it. The AB has to concentrate on the efforts on refining the criteria, initiating new educational ideas, expansion plans for teacher training etc .
> 
> I am sure with the collective wisdom of everyone we will find a solution which firmly protects Open Principles in Geoeducation and is acceptable for all .
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Suchith
> 
> From: Jody Garnett [jody.garnett at gmail.com <mailto:jody.garnett at gmail.com>]
> Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2015 8:23 PM
> To: Suchith Anand
> Cc: m.j.kraak at utwente.nl <mailto:m.j.kraak at utwente.nl>; silvanacamboim at gmail.com <mailto:silvanacamboim at gmail.com>; mfinn at usgs.gov <mailto:mfinn at usgs.gov>; sg at icaci.org <mailto:sg at icaci.org>; GeoForAll-ab at lists.osgeo.org <mailto:GeoForAll-ab at lists.osgeo.org>; ica-osgeo-labs at lists.osgeo.org <mailto:ica-osgeo-labs at lists.osgeo.org>
> Subject: Re: [geoforall-ab] [Board] geo4all relationship
> 
> I did not pay attention, it was a google doc <https://docs.google.com/document/d/11k-Rld4CPBjxUhuI9W7OZ8_UxSlXaKsmtP1Ix7iOrCY/edit> that I added some comments too and then was volunteered to port it to the wiki (OSGeo is good at volunteering you for stuff). The original was pretty bad with many off topic questions ...
> 
> I did update the diagrams on the wiki, I still think that wiki page misses the fundamental point - "are you happy with OSGeo signing MOUs to add new members to GeoForAll, or do you want to be an osgeo subcommittee and do it yourself, .... or do you want to set up a new legal entity.
> 
> Personally: I kind of hope for OSGeo's sake that we can play this roll - since it is part of our mandate and GeoForAll represents a great success of the values we believe in.
> 
> As a Board member for OSGeo I do not really mind what happens so long as everyone is happy.
> 
> (Please note I am not signed up to the mailing lists CCed on this thread so each time I reply I get a full inbox of rejected messages).
> --
> Jody
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Jody Garnett
> 
> On 26 November 2015 at 23:25, Suchith Anand <Suchith.Anand at nottingham.ac.uk <mailto:Suchith.Anand at nottingham.ac.uk>> wrote:
> Hi Jody, may i ask who first created these scenarios?  It will be good if the original document (i understand from your previous mail to the list that you used google docs) is shared and we all can update the diagrams  and scenarios to make things bit more clearer. I do not understand details of  scenario 1b for example.
> 
> I suggest that we do this before we ask AB members to vote. Thanks.
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Suchith
> From: m.j.kraak at utwente.nl <mailto:m.j.kraak at utwente.nl> [m.j.kraak at utwente.nl <mailto:m.j.kraak at utwente.nl>]
> Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 11:47 PM
> To: jody.garnett at gmail.com <mailto:jody.garnett at gmail.com>
> Cc: suchith.anand at nottingham.ac.uk <mailto:suchith.anand at nottingham.ac.uk>; silvanacamboim at gmail.com <mailto:silvanacamboim at gmail.com>; mfinn at usgs.gov <mailto:mfinn at usgs.gov>;  sg at icaci.org <mailto:sg at icaci.org>; GeoForAll-ab at lists.osgeo.org <mailto:GeoForAll-ab at lists.osgeo.org>; ica-osgeo-labs at lists.osgeo.org <mailto:ica-osgeo-labs at lists.osgeo.org>
> Subject: Re: [geoforall-ab] [Board] geo4all relationship
> 
> I then suggest to make Wiki more clear so ICA can make a well informed final decision. For me the graph in option 2 was most clear.
> _______________________________________________________
> 
> Prof. dr. Menno-Jan Kraak
> 
> University of Twente
> Department of Geoinformation Processing
> Faculty of Geoinformation Science and Earth Observation
> PO Box 217, 7500 AE Enschede - the Netherlands
> Hengelosestraat 99, 7514 AE  Enschede - the Netherlands (visiting)
> +31534874463 <tel:%2B31534874463> / +31534874335 <tel:%2B31534874335> (fax)
> http://www.itc.nl/personal/kraak/ <http://www.itc.nl/personal/kraak/>
> m.j.kraak at utwente.nl <mailto:m.j.kraak at utwente.nl>
> 
> International Cartographic Association
> President
> www.icaci.org <http://www.icaci.org/>
> president at icaci.org <mailto:president at icaic.org>
> <maillogo.png>
> 
>> Op 26 nov. 2015, om 05:28 heeft Jody Garnett <jody.garnett at gmail.com <mailto:jody.garnett at gmail.com>> het volgende geschreven:
>> 
>> I want to strongly state that OSGeo is not (and has never) asked for any restriction to promoting OSGeo projects. Our mandate at OSGeo is with respect to promoting open source software - irregardless of origin. 
>> 
>> The scenarios are identical in this respect - I apologize if their was any misunderstanding. I tried to provide examples that showed this. 
>> 
>> We do strongly ask that participation in open source be emphasized. Software is paid for in love or money - ask your students to show some love.
>> 
>> If your choice of scenario was at all influenced by this misunderstanding I encourage you to evaluate the proposals again - they are just about organization structure. 
>> On Wed, Nov 25, 2015 at 8:05 PM <m.j.kraak at utwente.nl <mailto:m.j.kraak at utwente.nl>> wrote:
>> Dear all,
>> 
>> ICA viewpoint on this matter is:
>> 
>> ICA’s reason to participate in and stimulate GeoforAll is to support open source initiatives for education. This should be inclusive to all possible open source initiatives, not necessarily to OSGEO ‘products’ only.
>> This means we are in favor of scenario 2. Here OSGEO, ICA, ISPRS and XXX are ‘equal’ partners, while XXX can be an organization like OSGEO or like ICA and ISPRS.
>> 
>> Both scenarios 1 and 1b seem to exclude other open source initiatives.
>> 
>> MJ 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________________
>> 
>> Prof. dr. Menno-Jan Kraak
>> 
>> University of Twente
>> Department of Geoinformation Processing
>> Faculty of Geoinformation Science and Earth Observation
>> PO Box 217, 7500 AE Enschede - the Netherlands
>> Hengelosestraat 99, 7514 AE  Enschede - the Netherlands (visiting)
>> +31534874463 <tel:%2B31534874463> / +31534874335 <tel:%2B31534874335> (fax)
>> http://www.itc.nl/personal/kraak/ <http://www.itc.nl/personal/kraak/>
>> m.j.kraak at utwente.nl <mailto:m.j.kraak at utwente.nl>
>> 
>> International Cartographic Association
>> President
>> www.icaci.org <http://www.icaci.org/>
>> president at icaci.org <mailto:president at icaic.org>
>> <maillogo.png>
>> 
>> 
>>> Op 17 nov. 2015, om 13:19 heeft Suchith Anand <suchith.anand at nottingham.ac.uk <mailto:suchith.anand at nottingham.ac.uk>> het volgende geschreven:
>>> 
>> 
>>> Thanks Jody . I have added more details into the wiki and forwarding to Geo4All advisory Board and community.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Dear Geo4All Advisory Board and Regional chairs,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Recently there had been  discussions on the future directions for Geo4All  .There were different opinions and hence we arranged a meeting at Como to discuss this and find a way forward. Following lot of discussions among our members in our mail lists  etc and the meeting at Como[1] that was led by Charlie Schweik ,the consensus was that OSGeo Education and Curriculum Committee and GeoForAll are the same and it is now GeoForAll: OSGeo's Education and Curriculum Effort as reflected in OSGeo website at http://www.osgeo.org/education <http://www.osgeo.org/education> . Venka has also presented this outcomes at FOSS4G Seoul [2]. Geo4All will continue to be inclusive and include all partners that OSGeo Board have MOUs with for expanding this OSGeo' Geo4All education initiative and warmly welcome everyone who are following the principles.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Geo4All initiative was started with the key aim to build up OSGeo's education aims by collaborating with like minded organisations and it is one of the most successful initiatives that we have undertaken. OSGeo Board has made separate MoUs with both ICA and ISPRS for expanding Geo4All and universities,SMEs, government organisations etc worldwide have trusted the MoUs that OSGeo provided and setup labs and joined the network , so it is important we provide strong continuity and focus. MoUs have to be respected and the momentum created need to build upon with clear direction and focus. It is important that proper structures are in place and steps need to be taken to ensure the smooth transition to GeoForAll as OSGeo's Education and keep collaborating with ICA, ISPRS and other organisations that OSGeo has MoU with. This will also make sure the efforts put in by lot of  volunteers for this is build upon for the future.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Geo4All had been working hard to expand OSGeo education activities globally .Members have been running courses,training events,workshops  using OSGeo software, MOOC programs (that benefitted thousands of students globally) etc have raised OSGeo education efforts globally. Geo4All members have been actively contributing to OSGeo Curriculum development effort and will continue to expand this by having more course materials in various OSGeo software added to the OSGeo education repository for everyone to make use of for their teaching and education.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> We will welcome and include all partners that OSGeo Board have MOUs with for expanding this OSGeo' Geo4All education initiative and warmly welcome everyone who are following the principles. That way the OSGeo Board will be able to keep expanding the initiative and to make MoUs with other organisations etc as we are doing now (ICA, ISPRS) and also in future .
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> So steps need to be taken to ensure the smooth transition to GeoForAll as OSGeo's Education and keep collaborating with ICA, ISPRS and other organisations that OSGeo has MoU with. This will also make sure the efforts put in by lot of  volunteers for this is build upon for the future.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> There are some steps that are outlined below and looking through the options - Scenario 1 seems to  be best option based on the Como discussions for ensure the smooth transition to GeoForAll as OSGeo's Education and keep collaborating with ICA, ISPRS and other organisations that OSGeo has MoU with.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> In this case, the Geo4All Advisory Board would include representatives from our partners like ICA, ISPRS etc. Geo4All Advisory Board comprises of representatives from ICA, ISPRS, OSGeo and other organisations that join in future. As a partner in the Geo4All initiative, a Project Steering Committee (PSC) comprising of VP OSGeo Foundation (Education and Curriculum Project) and other representatives (e.g Regional Chairs of Geo4All) need to be constituted within the OSGeo Foundation. The PSC could liaise with Geo4All Advisory Board to evolve way and means to achieve mutual goals and objectives. 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Charlie Schweik as VP OSGeo Foundation (Education and Curriculum Project) and other representatives (e.g Regional Chairs of Geo4All)  please let us know if you are happy to being  constituted within the OSGeo Foundation structure? 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> May i request all AB members and Regional Chairs to also send their suggestions on this, so we can  move forward. It is important that proper structures are in place and steps need to be taken to ensure the smooth transition to GeoForAll as OSGeo's Education and keep collaborating with ICA, ISPRS and other organisations that OSGeo has MoU with. This will also make sure the efforts put in by lot of  volunteers for this is build upon for the future.Please send your inputs before 30th Nov 2015 .Thanks.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Best wishes,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Suchith
>>> 
>>> [1] http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/FOSS4G_EU_Como_2015_Preconference_meeting <http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/FOSS4G_EU_Como_2015_Preconference_meeting>
>>> [2] http://www.slideshare.net/VenkateshRaghavan1/g4-a-newver2 <http://www.slideshare.net/VenkateshRaghavan1/g4-a-newver2>
>>> 
>>> From: Board [board-bounces at lists.osgeo.org <mailto:board-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>] on behalf of Jody Garnett [jody.garnett at gmail.com <mailto:jody.garnett at gmail.com>]
>>> Sent: Monday, November 16, 2015 4:25 PM
>>> To: board at lists.osgeo.org <mailto:board at lists.osgeo.org>
>>> Subject: [Board] geo4all relationship
>>> 
>>> I have added an entry to our wiki <https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Board_of_Directors#Working_Groups> for:
>>> 
>>> Revised Education Committee mandate pending clarification of GeoForAll OSGeo Relationship <https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/GeoForAll_OSGeo_Relationship> with Geo4All advisory board
>>> 
>>> Venkatesh Raghavan and Jeff McKenna are our representatives on the GeoForAll advisory board.
>>> 
>>> Thank you for taking taking on what is an important relationship for our foundation objectives.
>>> --
>>> Jody Garnett
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>>> 
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>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/geoforall-ab <http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/geoforall-ab>
>> -- 
>> --
>> Jody Garnett
> 
> This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee
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> 
> Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this
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> University of Nottingham.
> 
> This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an
> attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your
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> permitted by UK legislation.
> 
> This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee
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> 
> Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this
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> author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the
> University of Nottingham.
> 
> This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Massimiliano Cannata
> Professore SUPSI in ingegneria Geomatica
> Responsabile settore Geomatica
> 
> Istituto scienze della Terra
> Dipartimento ambiente costruzione e design
> Scuola universitaria professionale della Svizzera italiana
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> 
> Tel. +41 (0)58 666 62 14
> Fax +41 (0)58 666 62 09
> massimiliano.cannata at supsi.ch <mailto:massimiliano.cannata at supsi.ch>
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