[Incubator] Re: Is rasdaman suitable/ready for OSGeo incubation?

Wed Dec 8 05:15:42 EST 2010

Cameron,

yet another one: PostGIS is released under GPL 
(http://www.opensource.org/licenses/gpl-2.0.php), just as rasdaman is. 
Does OSGeo see any issue with GPL?

cheers,
Peter

On 12/06/2010 10:14 PM, Cameron Shorter wrote:
> Thank you Pieter,
> I think your comments are very valuable, especially as the path you 
> followed is similar to what Peter is proposing. (Ie a business 
> building an Open Source project from scratch, rather than an 
> volunteers who convert a hobby project into a robust business model).
>
> Peter, if Pieter is willing, I expect you would do well to pick his 
> brain for ideas on building your our marketing strategy and business 
> model. (Geomajas have done a great job with their marketing).
>
> On 6/12/2010 6:31 PM, Pieter De Graef wrote:
>> I believe your situation resembles mine a bit (2 years ago). When 
>> Geosparc was founded to support the Open Source project Geomajas, 
>> there where people from only 2 companies behind the project. We too 
>> had it quite difficult in the beginning to attract people.
>>
>> I believe what you need to do is make the intentions of your company 
>> as clear as possible, and make sure the Open Source project is a 
>> stand-alone project.
>> On the Geomajas website, you will have a hard time looking for the 
>> Geosparc name. We made sure that the Geomajas website was 100% 
>> community based, and even though in the beginning there hardly was 
>> any community, now there is.
>> It could be me, but when I see services etc on the main page, it does 
>> not give me the impression of being a stand-alone project. Although 
>> this is just an impression, don't forget perception is king. Of 
>> course I'm known to be mistaken every now and then.
>>
>>
>>
>> Op 4/12/2010 4:30, Cameron Shorter schreef:
>>> Peter,
>>> The (possibly incorrect) understanding I have is that you, being one 
>>> person, have been the central driver behind rasdaman, sometimes 
>>> under the banner of the university and sometimes under your company.
>>>
>>> However, my key concern from OSGeo's point of view is that the 
>>> current link with a proprietary license will hinder growth of a 
>>> robust community.
>>> Other OSGeo Incubation members may suggest otherwise.
>>>
>>> On 04/12/10 13:51, Baumann, Peter wrote:
>>>> Cameron,
>>>>
>>>> thanks for all the effort and serious considerations put into your 
>>>> looking at rasdaman. I am very grateful about our discussion - 
>>>> among others, it has shown me that the description provided on 
>>>> www.rasdaman.org needs refinement and clarification. I have 
>>>> attempted to go into that immediately with the "feature matrix" as 
>>>> a start, but other places will have to undergo a check as well.
>>>>
>>>> About the licensing, let me correct some false impression. The 
>>>> open-source rasdaman code is _not_ maintained by a company, but by 
>>>> a university. So the conclusion that further development of 
>>>> rasdaman would depend on one company is wrong in two respects:
>>>> - it is not one, but two entities supporting rasdaman
>>>> - it is not a company which is the main promoter of open source 
>>>> rasdaman, but a university
>>>>
>>>> Hope that helps to clarify situation a bit. I feel it very fruitful 
>>>> that now we have come to a discussion, hope we can continue this 
>>>> fruitful exchange.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Peter
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________________
>>>> From: Cameron Shorter [cameron.shorter at gmail.com]
>>>> Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2010 12:40 AM
>>>> To: Baumann, Peter; Bruce Bannerman; OSGeo-incubator
>>>> Subject: Is rasdaman suitable/ready for OSGeo incubation?
>>>>
>>>> I had the pleasure this week of meeting Peter Baumann, the primary
>>>> author behind rasdaman [1], a dual licensed raster processing
>>>> application. Along with Bruce Bannerman, we discussed rasdaman's
>>>> application for OSGeo application (initiated 18 months ago).
>>>>
>>>> Understandably, Peter noted some frustration by the lack of progress
>>>> moving toward OSGeo Incubation.
>>>>
>>>> Since talking to Peter, I've looked at rasdaman further, and think 
>>>> that
>>>> rasdaman has some great functionality, but I'm concerned that the
>>>> current dual license will hamper uptake from the open source 
>>>> community.
>>>>
>>>> Radaman is provided via an open source community edition, and then has
>>>> extensions which are in a proprietary enterprise edition. [2] My 
>>>> concern
>>>> is the dual license will substantially reduce the number of developers
>>>> prepared to grow the rasdaman developer community, as there will be a
>>>> feeling that the prime developer will only maintain and advance the
>>>> enterprise version.
>>>>
>>>> One of the key goals for incubation is to build a robust developer
>>>> community, with contributors from multiple organisations, and to have
>>>> the project grow sustainably. As it stands, I think that rasdaman's
>>>> licence model will make the project dependent upon the organisation
>>>> offering the enterprise software, which is counter to some of OSGeo
>>>> principles.
>>>>
>>>> Peter,
>>>> I understand the challenge of finding a suitable business model and
>>>> deciding whether to go down the proprietary or open source route. Yes,
>>>> with Open Source you do get significant marketing reach and having
>>>> others share development costs. Alternatively, with proprietary, 
>>>> you can
>>>> charge for software. If you wish to try to achieve both, then you will
>>>> likely end up having to write most/all software yourself, which 
>>>> doesn't
>>>> align with OSGeo goals of building a robust developer community.
>>>> This may be a reason why people on the incubation committee have not
>>>> pushed rasdaman forward further.
>>>> If you wish to continue with OSGeo incubation, I would suggest
>>>> considering adjusting your licence model.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [1] http://rasdaman.eecs.jacobs-university.de/trac/rasdaman
>>>> [2] 
>>>> http://rasdaman.eecs.jacobs-university.de/trac/rasdaman/wiki/Features
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Cameron Shorter
>>>> Geospatial Director
>>>> Tel: +61 (0)2 8570 5050
>>>> Mob: +61 (0)419 142 254
>>>>
>>>> Think Globally, Fix Locally
>>>> Geospatial Solutions enhanced with Open Standards and Open Source
>>>> http://www.lisasoft.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

-- 
Dr. Peter Baumann
  - Professor of Computer Science, Jacobs University Bremen
    www.faculty.jacobs-university.de/pbaumann
    mail: p.baumann at jacobs-university.de
    tel: +49-421-200-3178, fax: +49-421-200-493178
  - Executive Director, rasdaman GmbH Bremen (HRB 147737)
    www.rasdaman.com, mail: baumann at rasdaman.com
    tel: 0800-rasdaman, fax: 0800-rasdafax, mobile: +49-173-5837882
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