[Incubator] Info on the Old OSGeo Labs

Cameron Shorter cameron.shorter at gmail.com
Tue Mar 8 12:25:41 PST 2016


Jody,
As per Daniel's comment.
+1 to OSGeo being more inclusive by providing a light weight process for 
joining (in line with your suggestions)
-1 for the words "OSGeo Technology". Are you open to changing to another 
word than "Technology"?

On 9/03/2016 2:22 am, Daniel Morissette wrote:
> Hi Jody,
>
> FWIW I like the idea of a more inclusive place such as the former 
> "OSGeo Labs", I was even one of the early supporters of the idea.
>
> The only concern that I expressed earlier was to make sure that 
> terminology and expectations are clear for visitors to the site. I 
> don't want this to be perceived as a blocker, it was just a 
> constructive comment to help clarify the wording to make sure that 
> users know what they are getting from what we call OSGeo projects vs 
> OSGeo technology.
>
> Perhaps a comparison page to address the differences between Projects 
> vs Technology would help address the possible confusion?
>
> Daniel
>
>
> On 2016-03-08 10:13 AM, Jody Garnett wrote:
>> We are setting something up different that is not OSGeo labs. We are
>> validating - that these projects are open source and participatory.
>>
>> The result is hopefully a larger OSGeo community.
>>
>> This direction comes out of a board discussion around being inclusive
>> and innovative. It could be the OSGeo Technology idea won't fly ...
>>
>> Our OSGeo incubation process is set up for stability and safety. While I
>> respect this it is holding us back from including different categories
>> of projects.
>>
>> I think the larger issue for the board to wrestle with is that the
>> foundation does not provide enough value to projects. While they are
>> willing to step up assistance (say incubation sprint or external code
>> review) we on the incubation list need to look at our priorities on who
>> we can extend this assistance to.
>>
>> I would still like to see projects like pgRouting try their hand at
>> incubation. I think it is a shame incubation. and the foundation, is
>> considered hard.
>>
>> In fact open source is hard, and we are here to help.
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 2:35 AM Cameron Shorter
>> <cameron.shorter at gmail.com <mailto:cameron.shorter at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     Hey Jody,
>>     I'm actually agreeing with all you are suggesting doing with the
>>     rebranded "OSGeo Labs", except the name "OSGeo Technology". This
>>     name misrepresents the "Self Serve", non-validated concept of "OSGeo
>>     Labs". The name implies "built out of OSGeo Projects".  This is a
>>     dis-service to people who come to our site for the first time, a
>>     dis-service to "OSGeo Projects" who now become associated with
>>     immature projects.
>>
>>     Pick a more accurate name than "OSGeo Technology" and I'd back the
>>     rest of what you are suggesting.
>>
>>     Warm regards, Cameron
>>
>>
>>     On 7/03/2016 9:55 am, Jody Garnett wrote:
>>>     This is going to be a tough one Cameron ... our brand currently
>>>     has a reputation for turning projects away ... not quality.
>>>
>>>     The long story short is how to respond to the direction to be
>>>     inclusive. We have two strong characters on this mailing list with
>>>     an axe to grind making it difficult for projects to be part of
>>>     OSGeo. I am very keen on projects *being* open source, and you are
>>>     very keen on making projects safe for users to adopt (project
>>>     viability, quality, open standards).
>>>
>>>     I am proposing repurposing "OSGeo Labs" (which did not promise
>>>     anything as a brand and got adopted by GeoForAll) as "OSGeo
>>>     Technology" to focus on the open source angle; in order to
>>>     preserve "OSGeo Projects" (and incubation) to focus on the second.
>>>
>>>     We have a tension here between being inclusive (read easy) and
>>>     transparent (which takes effort).
>>>
>>>     How would you like to add "transparency" to this mix? We could
>>>     provide a table with website, download, documentation, test
>>>     results - not sure if that would help with transparency?
>>>
>>>     I know we keep coming back to a rating system on this mailing list
>>>     - I recognize your work in this area for OSGeo Live with the
>>>     introduction of black duck metrics. I imagine you would also be
>>>     happy to phrase things as positive "badges" (for projects that
>>>     have documentation, or quality assurance, or standards
>>>     testing).  For quality, documentation and so forth I think we are
>>>     stuck leading by example (and perhaps working with the OGC on
>>>     standards compliance).
>>>
>>>     On 3 March 2016 at 23:57, Cameron Shorter
>>> <<mailto:cameron.shorter at gmail.com>cameron.shorter at gmail.com
>>>     <mailto:cameron.shorter at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>         Hi Jody,
>>>         I agree with your suggestion that "Old OSGeo Labs" need not
>>>         have an aim of entering OSGeo incubation.
>>>         However, I object to any project becoming associated with
>>>         OSGeo without it being obvious about the level of quality
>>>         control the project has gone through.
>>>
>>>         As suggested below, I could knock together 100 lines of
>>>         uncommented, non-working code, give it an open source license,
>>>         and then add a "OSGeo Technology" logo to the home page. And
>>>         most average punters wouldn't know the difference between term
>>>         "OSGeo Project" and "OSGeo Technology". This would result in
>>>         diminishing the current association between OSGeo applications
>>>         and quality, which would be a bad thing.
>>>
>>>         I feel "OSGeo Labs", "OSGeo Community Builder Projects", or
>>>         shortened to "OSGeo Builder Projects" are less likely to be
>>>         confused with "OSGeo Incubated" projects.
>>>
>>>         Warm regards, Cameron
>>>
>>>
>>>         On 4/03/2016 2:13 am, Stephen Woodbridge wrote:
>>>
>>>             +1, I think these changes make a lot of sense and as part
>>>             of an OSGeo Technology project this feels very inclusive.
>>>
>>>             -Steve W
>>>
>>>             On 3/3/2016 9:46 AM, Jody Garnett wrote:
>>>
>>>                 I would like to change the tone of the page a bit,
>>>                 since it "assumes"
>>>                 incubation ..
>>>
>>>                     /OSGeo Labs is an umbrella for open source
>>>                 geospatial software
>>>                     projects that would like to become OSGeo projects
>>>                 in the future, but
>>>                     that aren't ready for incubation quite yet. It is
>>>                 appropriate to
>>>                     submit your new or experimental project as an
>>>                 OSGeo labs project./
>>>                     /
>>>                     /
>>>                     /The volunteers that work as part of OSGeo Labs
>>>                 have the goal of
>>>                     helping OSGeo Labs Projects qualify for
>>>                 incubation. To reach this
>>>                     goal, OSGeo Labs volunteers help OSGeo Labs
>>>                 Projects with the
>>>                     following tasks:
>>>                     /
>>>
>>>
>>>                 Would become:
>>>
>>>                     /Welcome to OSGeo Technology. The projects listed
>>>                 here are part of
>>>                     the Open Source Geospatial Foundation and range
>>>                 from new
>>>                     experimental projects to established pillars of
>>>                 our open source
>>>                     ecosystem./
>>>                     /
>>>                     /
>>>                     /All projects here meet our goals as an
>>>                 organization - they are open
>>>                     source (no really we checked) and are inclusive
>>>                 and welcoming to new
>>>                     contributors./
>>>                     /
>>>                     /
>>>
>>>                     /Projects that go on to establish excellence in
>>>                 community building,
>>>                     documentation, and governance can enter our
>>>                 "incubation" program. /
>>>
>>>
>>>                 I would also lose the "status" conditions
>>>                 seed/seedling/sapling/adult
>>>                 and keep OSGeo Technology focused on the basics (open
>>>                 source &
>>>                 inclusive). The status becomes having the "OSGeo
>>>                 Technology" badge nice
>>>                 and simple.
>>>
>>>                 Thinking this through a bit more we have one clear
>>>                 reason for projects
>>>                 to go through with incubation - being recognized by
>>>                 the board and having
>>>                 an OSGeo Officer listed directly for the project,
>>>                 while OSGeo Technology
>>>                 projects "share" an officer (as part of "incubation
>>>                 committee").
>>>                 --
>>>                 Jody Garnett
>>>
>>>                 On 11 February 2016 at 11:04, Landon Blake
>>>                 <sunburned.surveyor at gmail.com
>>>                 <mailto:sunburned.surveyor at gmail.com>
>>>                 <mailto:sunburned.surveyor at gmail.com
>>> <mailto:sunburned.surveyor at gmail.com>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>                     There is some good information on what we were
>>>                 trying to achieve
>>>                     with the old OSGeo Labs on the wiki:
>>>
>>>                 https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/OSGeo_Labs
>>>
>>>                     I think most of that information on the wiki still
>>>                 applies. This
>>>                     includes the purpose of labs, how projects get
>>>                 started in labs, what
>>>                     labs is trying to accomplish, and the criteria to
>>>                 determine if your
>>>                     project is a good fit for labs.
>>>
>>>                     Does anyone have major heartburn with what is laid
>>>                 out on that wiki
>>>                     page? (I'll rename the wiki page as soon as we get
>>>                 a new name for labs.)
>>>
>>>                     Landon
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>         --
>>>         Cameron Shorter,
>>>         Software and Data Solutions Manager
>>>         LISAsoft
>>>         Suite 112, Jones Bay Wharf,
>>>         26 - 32 Pirrama Rd, Pyrmont NSW 2009
>>>
>>>         P +61 2 9009 5000 <tel:%2B61%202%209009%205000>,  W
>>>         www.lisasoft.com <http://www.lisasoft.com>, F +61 2 9009 5099
>>>         <tel:%2B61%202%209009%205099>
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>     --
>>     Cameron Shorter,
>>     Software and Data Solutions Manager
>>     LISAsoft
>>     Suite 112, Jones Bay Wharf,
>>     26 - 32 Pirrama Rd, Pyrmont NSW 2009
>>
>>     P +61 2 9009 5000,  Wwww.lisasoft.com <http://www.lisasoft.com>,  
>> F +61 2 9009 5099
>>
>> -- 
>> -- 
>> Jody Garnett
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator
>>
>
>

-- 
Cameron Shorter,
Software and Data Solutions Manager
LISAsoft
Suite 112, Jones Bay Wharf,
26 - 32 Pirrama Rd, Pyrmont NSW 2009

P +61 2 9009 5000,  W www.lisasoft.com,  F +61 2 9009 5099



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