[Incubator] Info on the Old OSGeo Labs

Even Rouault even.rouault at spatialys.com
Wed Mar 9 10:09:28 PST 2016


Le mercredi 09 mars 2016 18:50:30, Jody Garnett a écrit :
> It certainly can - the emphasis (or moto) is on "open source and
> participatory". If it is a single persons development effort provenance
> would be easier to check, participatory would be harder (perhaps has if the
> github CONTIRBUTING.md file was available to direct incoming
> pull-requests).
> 
> Identifying minimal requires are difficult - because as an organization we
> *believe* in all the requirements laid out for incubation. It is always
> tempting to add "one more important one".

The requirements mentionned at 
https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/OSGeo_Incubation_Technology_Projects looks good to 
me:
"""
     The code is under an OSI approved license (data & doc projects need to 
specify their choice for a type of license).
    The project is willing to keep code clear of encumbrances
    The project is "geospatial", or directly supports geospatial applications.
    The project hopes to become a graduated OSGeo project,.
"""

Wondering if the last one makes sense though. It cannot be objectively verified 
and I guess there are projects that would make sense as OSGeo Technology or 
whatever-it-is-named but can't/don't want/aren't sure to want to go to 
incubation & graduation.

> 
> --
> Jody Garnett
> 
> On 8 March 2016 at 15:09, Massimiliano Cannata <
> 
> massimiliano.cannata at supsi.ch> wrote:
> > Just 2 cents
> > But maybe the point is not to have project not verified but with lower
> > level of requirements. Could a project graduate for being an osgeo
> > technology still making a code provenance even if is a one man code?
> > 
> > Maxi
> > 
> > Il 08/Mar/2016 21:30, "Jody Garnett" <jody.garnett at gmail.com> ha scritto:
> >> Thanks for the support/discussion Daniel/Cameron - I am open to a word
> >> other than "OSGeo Technology".
> >> 
> >> Many of the other words proposed missed the point of the exercise... it
> >> is more useful to think of a project like pgRouting
> >> <http://pgrouting.org> or PROJ <https://trac.osgeo.org/proj/> than to
> >> think of 100 lines of javascript.
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> --
> >> Jody Garnett
> >> 
> >> On 8 March 2016 at 12:25, Cameron Shorter <cameron.shorter at gmail.com>
> >> 
> >> wrote:
> >>> Jody,
> >>> As per Daniel's comment.
> >>> +1 to OSGeo being more inclusive by providing a light weight process
> >>> for joining (in line with your suggestions)
> >>> -1 for the words "OSGeo Technology". Are you open to changing to
> >>> another word than "Technology"?
> >>> 
> >>> On 9/03/2016 2:22 am, Daniel Morissette wrote:
> >>>> Hi Jody,
> >>>> 
> >>>> FWIW I like the idea of a more inclusive place such as the former
> >>>> "OSGeo Labs", I was even one of the early supporters of the idea.
> >>>> 
> >>>> The only concern that I expressed earlier was to make sure that
> >>>> terminology and expectations are clear for visitors to the site. I
> >>>> don't want this to be perceived as a blocker, it was just a
> >>>> constructive comment to help clarify the wording to make sure that
> >>>> users know what they are getting from what we call OSGeo projects vs
> >>>> OSGeo technology.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Perhaps a comparison page to address the differences between Projects
> >>>> vs Technology would help address the possible confusion?
> >>>> 
> >>>> Daniel
> >>>> 
> >>>> On 2016-03-08 10:13 AM, Jody Garnett wrote:
> >>>>> We are setting something up different that is not OSGeo labs. We are
> >>>>> validating - that these projects are open source and participatory.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> The result is hopefully a larger OSGeo community.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> This direction comes out of a board discussion around being inclusive
> >>>>> and innovative. It could be the OSGeo Technology idea won't fly ...
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Our OSGeo incubation process is set up for stability and safety.
> >>>>> While I
> >>>>> respect this it is holding us back from including different
> >>>>> categories of projects.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> I think the larger issue for the board to wrestle with is that the
> >>>>> foundation does not provide enough value to projects. While they are
> >>>>> willing to step up assistance (say incubation sprint or external code
> >>>>> review) we on the incubation list need to look at our priorities on
> >>>>> who we can extend this assistance to.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> I would still like to see projects like pgRouting try their hand at
> >>>>> incubation. I think it is a shame incubation. and the foundation, is
> >>>>> considered hard.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> In fact open source is hard, and we are here to help.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 2:35 AM Cameron Shorter
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> <cameron.shorter at gmail.com <mailto:cameron.shorter at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>>>>     Hey Jody,
> >>>>>     I'm actually agreeing with all you are suggesting doing with the
> >>>>>     rebranded "OSGeo Labs", except the name "OSGeo Technology". This
> >>>>>     name misrepresents the "Self Serve", non-validated concept of
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> "OSGeo
> >>>>> 
> >>>>>     Labs". The name implies "built out of OSGeo Projects".  This is a
> >>>>>     dis-service to people who come to our site for the first time, a
> >>>>>     dis-service to "OSGeo Projects" who now become associated with
> >>>>>     immature projects.
> >>>>>     
> >>>>>     Pick a more accurate name than "OSGeo Technology" and I'd back
> >>>>>     the rest of what you are suggesting.
> >>>>>     
> >>>>>     Warm regards, Cameron
> >>>>>     
> >>>>>     On 7/03/2016 9:55 am, Jody Garnett wrote:
> >>>>>>     This is going to be a tough one Cameron ... our brand currently
> >>>>>>     has a reputation for turning projects away ... not quality.
> >>>>>>     
> >>>>>>     The long story short is how to respond to the direction to be
> >>>>>>     inclusive. We have two strong characters on this mailing list
> >>>>>>     with an axe to grind making it difficult for projects to be
> >>>>>>     part of OSGeo. I am very keen on projects *being* open source,
> >>>>>>     and you are very keen on making projects safe for users to
> >>>>>>     adopt (project viability, quality, open standards).
> >>>>>>     
> >>>>>>     I am proposing repurposing "OSGeo Labs" (which did not promise
> >>>>>>     anything as a brand and got adopted by GeoForAll) as "OSGeo
> >>>>>>     Technology" to focus on the open source angle; in order to
> >>>>>>     preserve "OSGeo Projects" (and incubation) to focus on the
> >>>>>>     second.
> >>>>>>     
> >>>>>>     We have a tension here between being inclusive (read easy) and
> >>>>>>     transparent (which takes effort).
> >>>>>>     
> >>>>>>     How would you like to add "transparency" to this mix? We could
> >>>>>>     provide a table with website, download, documentation, test
> >>>>>>     results - not sure if that would help with transparency?
> >>>>>>     
> >>>>>>     I know we keep coming back to a rating system on this mailing
> >>>>>>     list - I recognize your work in this area for OSGeo Live with
> >>>>>>     the introduction of black duck metrics. I imagine you would
> >>>>>>     also be happy to phrase things as positive "badges" (for
> >>>>>>     projects that have documentation, or quality assurance, or
> >>>>>>     standards
> >>>>>>     testing).  For quality, documentation and so forth I think we
> >>>>>>     are stuck leading by example (and perhaps working with the OGC
> >>>>>>     on standards compliance).
> >>>>>>     
> >>>>>>     On 3 March 2016 at 23:57, Cameron Shorter
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> <<mailto:cameron.shorter at gmail.com>cameron.shorter at gmail.com
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>>     <mailto:cameron.shorter at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>>>>>         Hi Jody,
> >>>>>>         I agree with your suggestion that "Old OSGeo Labs" need not
> >>>>>>         have an aim of entering OSGeo incubation.
> >>>>>>         However, I object to any project becoming associated with
> >>>>>>         OSGeo without it being obvious about the level of quality
> >>>>>>         control the project has gone through.
> >>>>>>         
> >>>>>>         As suggested below, I could knock together 100 lines of
> >>>>>>         uncommented, non-working code, give it an open source
> >>>>>>         license, and then add a "OSGeo Technology" logo to the home
> >>>>>>         page. And most average punters wouldn't know the difference
> >>>>>>         between term "OSGeo Project" and "OSGeo Technology". This
> >>>>>>         would result in diminishing the current association between
> >>>>>>         OSGeo applications and quality, which would be a bad thing.
> >>>>>>         
> >>>>>>         I feel "OSGeo Labs", "OSGeo Community Builder Projects", or
> >>>>>>         shortened to "OSGeo Builder Projects" are less likely to be
> >>>>>>         confused with "OSGeo Incubated" projects.
> >>>>>>         
> >>>>>>         Warm regards, Cameron
> >>>>>>         
> >>>>>>         On 4/03/2016 2:13 am, Stephen Woodbridge wrote:
> >>>>>>             +1, I think these changes make a lot of sense and as
> >>>>>>             part of an OSGeo Technology project this feels very
> >>>>>>             inclusive.
> >>>>>>             
> >>>>>>             -Steve W
> >>>>>>             
> >>>>>>             On 3/3/2016 9:46 AM, Jody Garnett wrote:
> >>>>>>                 I would like to change the tone of the page a bit,
> >>>>>>                 since it "assumes"
> >>>>>>                 incubation ..
> >>>>>>                 
> >>>>>>                     /OSGeo Labs is an umbrella for open source
> >>>>>>                 
> >>>>>>                 geospatial software
> >>>>>>                 
> >>>>>>                     projects that would like to become OSGeo
> >>>>>>                     projects
> >>>>>>                 
> >>>>>>                 in the future, but
> >>>>>>                 
> >>>>>>                     that aren't ready for incubation quite yet. It
> >>>>>>                     is
> >>>>>>                 
> >>>>>>                 appropriate to
> >>>>>>                 
> >>>>>>                     submit your new or experimental project as an
> >>>>>>                 
> >>>>>>                 OSGeo labs project./
> >>>>>>                 
> >>>>>>                     /
> >>>>>>                     /
> >>>>>>                     /The volunteers that work as part of OSGeo Labs
> >>>>>>                 
> >>>>>>                 have the goal of
> >>>>>>                 
> >>>>>>                     helping OSGeo Labs Projects qualify for
> >>>>>>                 
> >>>>>>                 incubation. To reach this
> >>>>>>                 
> >>>>>>                     goal, OSGeo Labs volunteers help OSGeo Labs
> >>>>>>                 
> >>>>>>                 Projects with the
> >>>>>>                 
> >>>>>>                     following tasks:
> >>>>>>                     /
> >>>>>>                 
> >>>>>>                 Would become:
> >>>>>>                     /Welcome to OSGeo Technology. The projects
> >>>>>>                     listed
> >>>>>>                 
> >>>>>>                 here are part of
> >>>>>>                 
> >>>>>>                     the Open Source Geospatial Foundation and range
> >>>>>>                 
> >>>>>>                 from new
> >>>>>>                 
> >>>>>>                     experimental projects to established pillars of
> >>>>>>                 
> >>>>>>                 our open source
> >>>>>>                 
> >>>>>>                     ecosystem./
> >>>>>>                     /
> >>>>>>                     /
> >>>>>>                     /All projects here meet our goals as an
> >>>>>>                 
> >>>>>>                 organization - they are open
> >>>>>>                 
> >>>>>>                     source (no really we checked) and are inclusive
> >>>>>>                 
> >>>>>>                 and welcoming to new
> >>>>>>                 
> >>>>>>                     contributors./
> >>>>>>                     /
> >>>>>>                     /
> >>>>>>                     
> >>>>>>                     /Projects that go on to establish excellence in
> >>>>>>                 
> >>>>>>                 community building,
> >>>>>>                 
> >>>>>>                     documentation, and governance can enter our
> >>>>>>                 
> >>>>>>                 "incubation" program. /
> >>>>>>                 
> >>>>>>                 
> >>>>>>                 I would also lose the "status" conditions
> >>>>>>                 seed/seedling/sapling/adult
> >>>>>>                 and keep OSGeo Technology focused on the basics
> >>>>>>                 (open source &
> >>>>>>                 inclusive). The status becomes having the "OSGeo
> >>>>>>                 Technology" badge nice
> >>>>>>                 and simple.
> >>>>>>                 
> >>>>>>                 Thinking this through a bit more we have one clear
> >>>>>>                 reason for projects
> >>>>>>                 to go through with incubation - being recognized by
> >>>>>>                 the board and having
> >>>>>>                 an OSGeo Officer listed directly for the project,
> >>>>>>                 while OSGeo Technology
> >>>>>>                 projects "share" an officer (as part of "incubation
> >>>>>>                 committee").
> >>>>>>                 --
> >>>>>>                 Jody Garnett
> >>>>>>                 
> >>>>>>                 On 11 February 2016 at 11:04, Landon Blake
> >>>>>>                 <sunburned.surveyor at gmail.com
> >>>>>>                 <mailto:sunburned.surveyor at gmail.com>
> >>>>>>                 <mailto:sunburned.surveyor at gmail.com
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> <mailto:sunburned.surveyor at gmail.com>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>                     There is some good information on what we were
> >>>>>>                 
> >>>>>>                 trying to achieve
> >>>>>>                 
> >>>>>>                     with the old OSGeo Labs on the wiki:
> >>>>>>                 https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/OSGeo_Labs
> >>>>>>                 
> >>>>>>                     I think most of that information on the wiki
> >>>>>>                     still
> >>>>>>                 
> >>>>>>                 applies. This
> >>>>>>                 
> >>>>>>                     includes the purpose of labs, how projects get
> >>>>>>                 
> >>>>>>                 started in labs, what
> >>>>>>                 
> >>>>>>                     labs is trying to accomplish, and the criteria
> >>>>>>                     to
> >>>>>>                 
> >>>>>>                 determine if your
> >>>>>>                 
> >>>>>>                     project is a good fit for labs.
> >>>>>>                     
> >>>>>>                     Does anyone have major heartburn with what is
> >>>>>>                     laid
> >>>>>>                 
> >>>>>>                 out on that wiki
> >>>>>>                 
> >>>>>>                     page? (I'll rename the wiki page as soon as we
> >>>>>>                     get
> >>>>>>                 
> >>>>>>                 a new name for labs.)
> >>>>>>                 
> >>>>>>                     Landon
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>>                     Incubator mailing list
> >>>>>>                 
> >>>>>>                 Incubator at lists.osgeo.org
> >>>>>>                 <mailto:Incubator at lists.osgeo.org>
> >>>>>>                 <mailto:Incubator at lists.osgeo.org
> >>>>>>                 <mailto:Incubator at lists.osgeo.org>>
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>>                 Incubator mailing list
> >>>>>>                 Incubator at lists.osgeo.org
> >>>>>>                 <mailto:Incubator at lists.osgeo.org>
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>>             ---
> >>>>>>             This email has been checked for viruses by Avast
> >>>>>>             antivirus software.
> >>>>>>             https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> >>>>>>             
> >>>>>>             _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>             Incubator mailing list
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>>             Incubator at lists.osgeo.org <mailto:
> >>>>>> Incubator at lists.osgeo.org>
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>>             http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator
> >>>>>>         
> >>>>>>         --
> >>>>>>         Cameron Shorter,
> >>>>>>         Software and Data Solutions Manager
> >>>>>>         LISAsoft
> >>>>>>         Suite 112, Jones Bay Wharf,
> >>>>>>         26 - 32 Pirrama Rd, Pyrmont NSW 2009
> >>>>>>         
> >>>>>>         P +61 2 9009 5000 <tel:%2B61%202%209009%205000>,  W
> >>>>>>         www.lisasoft.com <http://www.lisasoft.com>, F +61 2 9009
> >>>>>>         5099 <tel:%2B61%202%209009%205099>
> >>>>>>         
> >>>>>>         
> >>>>>>         _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>         Incubator mailing list
> >>>>>>         Incubator at lists.osgeo.org <mailto:Incubator at lists.osgeo.org>
> >>>>>>         http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator
> >>>>>     
> >>>>>     --
> >>>>>     Cameron Shorter,
> >>>>>     Software and Data Solutions Manager
> >>>>>     LISAsoft
> >>>>>     Suite 112, Jones Bay Wharf,
> >>>>>     26 - 32 Pirrama Rd, Pyrmont NSW 2009
> >>>>>     
> >>>>>     P +61 2 9009 5000,  Wwww.lisasoft.com <http://www.lisasoft.com>,
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> F +61 2 9009 5099
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Jody Garnett
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> Incubator mailing list
> >>>>> Incubator at lists.osgeo.org
> >>>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator
> >>> 
> >>> --
> >>> Cameron Shorter,
> >>> Software and Data Solutions Manager
> >>> LISAsoft
> >>> Suite 112, Jones Bay Wharf,
> >>> 26 - 32 Pirrama Rd, Pyrmont NSW 2009
> >>> 
> >>> P +61 2 9009 5000,  W www.lisasoft.com,  F +61 2 9009 5099
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Incubator mailing list
> >>> Incubator at lists.osgeo.org
> >>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator
> >> 
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Incubator mailing list
> >> Incubator at lists.osgeo.org
> >> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator

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