[Live-demo] More ideas on collaborative development
Massimo Di Stefano
massimodisasha at yahoo.it
Wed Aug 26 21:36:36 EDT 2009
Hi Cameron,
> Massimo,
> I'm interested to hear your feedback on this email.
> In particular, I'm keen to determine whether the ideas proposed fit
> with what you are doing, and whether we can collaborate to some level.
Little update on what i'm doing :
Actually i'm hard-working on a sidux live.iso produced by a virtualbox
VM,
doing regular update && dist-upgrade.
The sidux distro use debian-sid, sidux (including debian-gis repository)
It use the latest kernel and updated packages (i added the non-free
repository too)
For some reason i prefer to build some sw from svn source code : Gdal,
Grass, OpenScenaGraph, Ossim, Qgis, Mapserver, Mapnik, Libtiff,
Libgeotiff, GpsTK).
and other sw from tarball (pgadmin3 and some others)
""" my 2 cents about svn sw against stable version ... :
i prefer to have development (svn) version, in this way i can do an
intense testing process using it
in my short experience i find more bugs in the stable version rather
than the svn version (this can be not true for you .. i agree, but
this is my experience)
.
If we have time to give a look, every day, in the svn boot logs ...
for each application we are intersted for, in this way we know if
there is a commit that represent an update or a bug fix changes.
knowing the svn progress we can test the new enanchments and debug it
if/where it is possible.
in this way the sw development go ahead more fast (if we provide logs,
ticket or feedback .. using m-list and irc) and if (unlucky) a bug
come up and no solution/fix is ready we can even do svn -r "release-
without the critical bug" to checkout a good revision tagged as "svn-
stable" """
(odd : using a source build for gdal i need to build from source all
the sw that depends on it, but it ensures me to have a working gdal
version without generate conflict bettween variouse tools that uses
gdal (see gdal-grass and ossim-gdal plug-in).
What i'm including in the .iso :
- sw we have in the last osgeo dvd (need to add java apps yet, using
the free jdm and not the sun jvm)
(i agree that we need a full detailed list about the software We
want install on the live disc)
- ossim+3d stuff
- updated grass6.5 and qgis1.2 svn version (plus all the qgis-python
plug-in and some grass addons)
- other scientific sw like octave (+qt interface) and variouse
plotting tools
- R with spatial packages already installed
- gmt + mbsystem
- some FEM (finite elements) sw
- database managment sw (pgadmin3, phppgadmin)
- openoffice 3 complete suite, gimp, inkskape
- latex tools
- development kit + dev packages headers (compilers and tools like
gcc, jam, ant, scons, etc... and the needed -dev dependencies to build
sw from source)
- sidux help file in all avaiable language.
i need to add yet the java sw (geoserver, geonetwork, udig+javagrass,
josm ... others?)
here i need help and i'll give a depth look at the future scripts to
configure them.
i'm planning to add also OMAR (ossim mapping archive), OTB (Orfeo
Toolbox) and tilecache + GeoDjango
I'm installing sw from source instead of use what the debian-
repository already has beacouse :
- installing sw from svn or source tar.gz give us a distro that is
really up-to-date, and it is aslo "upgradable"
every time the user needs an upgrade, beacouse it already has all
the needed dependencies (-dev
packages) and i'll provide scripts to update configure and make the
sw installed from source.
- there are some packages (sdl, libtiff, pyqwt, pgadmin3, ... others)
with some problems and bugs
so installing from source i can avoid to have bugus sw installed
I choose sidux instead of debian stable or ubuntu beacouse :
- it has more updated packages and it is a stabilized sidux distro
- using sidux it already install in the .iso some virtualizzation
tools that give us :
in a VirtualBox Machine, just select the sidux.iso in virtualbox as
bootable device and the VM will have
expanding desktop and 3d environment ready to use in the VM (ose
version)
(the downloaded iso is about 450 mb, it is really thin)
starting from it id done a apt-get update apt-get dist-upgrade (adding
the non-free repository too)
i added script to rebuild the SW installed from source. the final .iso
size is near 2.3 gb
>
> I'm hoping that the install scripts that we write for each project
> which target Xubuntu will be useful for your sidux development, and
> that you will be in a position to write some of the install scripts,
> and or test what we have written.
>
For sure, i can test the scripts without problems and adapt it to
works on sidux.
I need help for the java apps beacouse i never used it too much i'm
able to install Geonetwork and Geoserver (based on tomcat)... but i
never configured it to works on data (step needed to have a working
geoserver/geonetwork demo).
For openlayer+Tilecache+Mapnik+ Osm(including tools like osm2pgsql and
mapnik rendering)) i can ask on the relative #irc channels to find
help to configure a good example-project.
My idea is to provide to the user not only sw, but an easy way to try
it out too.
Provide too much data for test all the sw installed is not a good
thing so i decided to use
as demo-examples data the same demostration files for variouse sw
(where applicable).
(thanks to the gdal-grass-plug-in and the ossim-gdal-plug-in we can
use the same dataset for variouse project, without data duplications
and without needs to download data after the iso is running)
So simply, i'm using for Mapserver (i use kamap as frontend for ms),
Qgis, Grass, Ossim the same demostration files based on a Grass
location (unzipped spearfish is only 60mb).
But i should like to have also :
- a global-dataset for all the .iso users (world coastlines and
countries boundaries, lake, stream) and a world.jpg lightweight raster
image.
- a localized dataset + localized tutorial (downloadable from osgeo)
Right now i'm installing some sw on the VM and debugging it to see if
all works as aspected
i'm avaiable to provide any kind of test and feedback.
if yoy know a good place where to upload a testing.iso image i can
provide you a test-alfa release at the end of this week.
apologize me for the not perfect english, i hope i gived you a good
and not confuse explanation
about what i'm doing.
let me know what can i do to help us to work on the foss4g live dvd
project.
p.s..:
unlucky we are on different distro (this don't help) but i will not
use ubuntu beacouse it gived me some problems in the past, tring to
use ossim+3d stuff beacouse it doesn't have an up-to-date kernel that
can runs well on my laptop-hardware (this the reason i switched to
sidux, i was an ex happy-ubuntu user)
Ciao,
Massimo.
> Cameron Shorter wrote:
>> Stefan,
>> Your comments about the timeline are well placed. Thanks. That does
>> change things a little. I've just managed to get LISAsoft
>> management signoff to have you work on this project till the end of
>> the week.
>>
>> So I propose:
>> 1. Stefan installs a number of projects that he is already familiar
>> with from the Arramagong DVD onto Richardo's latest GISVM.
>>
>> 2. Write .sh scripts to do the installation, then execute them.
>> (Note, the scripts should be written under the assumption that root
>> will be executing them. So no need to use "sudo" in the script).
>>
>> By writing the scripts, we should be able to provide examples for
>> others to follow.
>>
>> 3. Richardo, if he has time, should write scripts for the projects
>> that he would like to install, which Stefan can then apply to the
>> image being built at LISAsoft.
>>
>> 4. By this Friday 28 Aug, we will have a draft image, which we
>> upload for the community to review.
>>
>> 4.5 By Friday, we will also have the wiki pages up to date, with
>> one page explaining how to get your project into the GISVM. I can
>> commit to making that happen.
>>
>> 5. On Friday, I'll send out a press release inviting projects to
>> write install scripts for other projects, and noting the timeline,
>> along with a message "Get your scripts written onto the liveDVD the
>> following week if you want your project distributed at FOSS4G".
>>
>> 6. I expect we will get 1/2 the projects to contribute, we can also
>> add a few more projects ourselves in that week.
>>
>> Somewhere during this, lets try and organise a synchronisation box,
>> but I don't think that is the most important task, and if it
>> doesn't get done until after foss4g, that is ok.
>>
>>
>> Stefan Hansen wrote:
>>> Hey,
>>>
>>> Even though I completely agree that it is desirable to have
>>> processes in place that automatize generating the VM/LiveDVD, I'm
>>> afraid writing scripts and setting these processes up shouldn't be
>>> our main focus atm.
>>>
>>> In the revised schedule (can you guys check if the schedule is
>>> ok?) for the FOSS4G-LiveDVD-schedule the feature freeze is Friday
>>> next week. 1 week later is the beta release, again a week later
>>> the final freeze and finally the ISO has to be ready for printing
>>> on the 20. September. So it's very tight.
>>>
>>> The 2 things we should get done very soon are sorting out the sync
>>> issue and deciding on the features we want to have on the DVD.
>>>
>>> I had a quick look at Unison and Dropbox. Both seem to be worth a
>>> try, Dropbox seems to be a bit more simple to use (maybe it only
>>> seemed easier because they have comic-like explanation of how it
>>> works...). Ricardo, do you have already a Dropbox account? If not
>>> can you create one, put the VM.7z in it and I will then try to
>>> access it?
>>>
>>> Ricardo, I haven't had time to check out the new version of the VM
>>> you gave us (hopefully I get around to do that tonight or
>>> tomorrow), so I don't know what's already on it. Do you have a
>>> list with all installed (geo-)apps? And what else were you
>>> planning to install? Cameron, do you know which projects expressed
>>> interest on being on the LiveDVD? For which apps/projects do we
>>> have/can we get in time additional material such as examples,
>>> documentation, etc?
>>>
>>> regards,
>>> stefan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Cameron Shorter wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ricardo Pinho wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. Write install scripts for each application, and put these
>>>>>> scripts into subversion:
>>>>>> I suggest we create bash install scripts for each application
>>>>>> we want on the LiveDVD.
>>>>>> These scripts will contain all the steps necessary to install a
>>>>>> project.
>>>>>> Ie, we would have one script for geoserver, one for mapserver,
>>>>>> one for qgis, etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>> R1.
>>>>> I agree, but it's more easily said then done... ;-)
>>>>> Because some steps are not easily implemented with scripts. (at
>>>>> least for me!)
>>>>> I'm thinking about config editing, for example...
>>>>>
>>>> Noted. There may still be some manual steps which we need to
>>>> implement, but I suspect that we can update many of to the
>>>> scripts with "sed" or "awk" or "perl" depending upon your
>>>> preference.
>>>> I'm prepared to help out on some of these, if you can provide me
>>>> with a list of config files which need to be changed.
>>>>
>>>> I've started building the scripts at:
>>>> https://svn.osgeo.org/osgeo/livedvd/gisvm/
>>>>
>>>> Not much in the directory yet, about from a template for filling
>>>> in other scripts, and a README.
>>>> I'm interested to hear feedback as to whether you think this will
>>>> work.
>>>>
>>>> The key here is that all a project like geoserver needs to do to
>>>> get their project onto gisvm is to write a bash script
>>>> (geoserver.sh) which covers all the installation steps.
>>>>
>>>> Over time, we can probably incorporate these bash scripts into
>>>> build files.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> 2. Xubuntu:
>>>>>> I suggest that we use Xubuntu as a basis for the
>>>>>>
>>>>> GISVM instead of Ubuntu,
>>>>>
>>>> Great, I see that the latest gisvm you created is using Xubuntu.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> as it is specifically designed to run on a low
>>>>>>
>>>>> powered environment,
>>>>>
>>>>>> but still runs all the Ubuntu packages.
>>>>>>
>>>>> R2.
>>>>> I agree, no dough about it! ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> 3. Wiki pages:
>>>>>> There are a few too many LiveDVD wiki pages,
>>>>>> which makes it hard for a newbie to find out what is current,
>>>>>> and what is not.
>>>>>> http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Category:Live-demo
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>> I suggest that we consolidate down to a few pages,
>>>>> R3.
>>>>> I agree! Not very skilled on wiki, but I will do my best! (I'm a
>>>>> fast learner!!!)
>>>> It is quite easy, you will be up to speed in 5 minutes. Just copy
>>>> existing text formatting, or click on the formatting help.
>>>>
>>>>> And who can take the first step into consolidation?
>>>>>
>>>> I've already started, and have merged a couple of pages together
>>>> yesterday.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I suppose we will use wiki to discuss and propose changes to it.
>>>>> Or shell we use this mailling list (Live-Demo)?
>>>>>
>>>> I think we should discuss proposals on this email list, and use
>>>> the wiki to describe "how to build gisvm and the arramagong
>>>> livedvd, and what the projects are all about, and how to get
>>>> involved etc".
>>>>
>>>> Basically, use the wiki to describe the project as it currently
>>>> stands, and how to get involved.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> 4. Central VM, which we rsync from:
>>>>>> As mentioned earlier, I think
>>>>>>
>>>>> that we should set up a central virtual machine,
>>>>>
>>>>>> probably on OSGeo
>>>>>>
>>>>> hardware, which we can all rsync from in order to
>>>>>
>>>>>> collaboratively
>>>>>>
>>>>> update the same virtual machine.
>>>>>
>>>>> R4.
>>>>> This is THE big issue! If we use virtual disks files (vmdk),
>>>>> they are 4 GB long...
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm available for trying rsync with GISVM vmdk files. I've
>>>>> already made one available for Stefan...
>>>>> Please configure it on the OSGeo box, asap...
>>>>>
>>>>> But I must also suggest:
>>>>>
>>>>> a) Amazon S3 engine! Very powerfull and speedy service. But a
>>>>> Payed one!
>>>>>
>>>>> b) Drobox, a free and multiplataform sync engine (limited to 2-3
>>>>> GB, for free)
>>>>> If we 7zip the vmdk file we probably can reduce it under 2 GB...
>>>>>
>>>> I've thinking about focusing on this second, after seeing if we
>>>> can set up the bash install scripts.
>>>>
>>>> Hamish recommended "Unison", which I looked into last night. It
>>>> is a browser based wrapper over rsync.
>>>>
>>>> With regards to the synchronisation load, we can configure Unison
>>>> (on gisvm) to synchronise from a set of directories. Symbolic
>>>> links seem to be handled, which is good.
>>>>
>>>> Is there a limited set of directories in the GISVM that need to
>>>> be updated? If so, we can just sync them (and use Drobox as you
>>>> suggest).
>>>>
>>>>> Other suggestions and opinions are welcome...
>>>>> And you can count on me!
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Ricardo Pinho
>>>>> http://gisvm.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Mensagem original ----
>>>>> De: Cameron Shorter <cameron.shorter at gmail.com>
>>>>> Para: live-demo at lists.osgeo.org
>>>>> Enviadas: Domingo, 23 de Agosto de 2009 23:41:17
>>>>> Assunto: [Live-demo] More ideas on collaborative development
>>>>>
>>>>> I've been thinking hard about recent comments from Hamish,
>>>>> Massimo, Richardo and Stefan in relation to collaborative
>>>>> development of GISVM and LiveDVD. I've also been looking over
>>>>> the wiki pages and svn scripts and the GISVM to see what has
>>>>> been done already. After sleeping on this for a few nights, I
>>>>> wonder what people think about the following ideas:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Write install scripts for each application, and put these
>>>>> scripts into subversion:
>>>>>
>>>>> I suggest we create bash install scripts for each application we
>>>>> want on the LiveDVD. These scripts will contain all the steps
>>>>> necessary to install a project. Ie, we would have one script for
>>>>> geoserver, one for mapserver, one for qgis, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> I notice that Massimo is part way here, having written the
>>>>> installation steps into the wiki at:
>>>>> http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/GFOSS.it_Live_DVD_Install
>>>>>
>>>>> Stefan has created a similar wiki at:
>>>>> http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/LISAsoft-LiveCD_process
>>>>> Stefan has also been collecting these steps into scripts stored
>>>>> in subversion:
>>>>> https://svn.osgeo.org/osgeo/livedvd/scripts/trunk/LiveDVDFromScratch/
>>>>>
>>>>> The key points here is:
>>>>> * Community engagement: It would be straight forward for
>>>>> projects to write their own installation scripts. They can write
>>>>> them, then copy into svn, then let one of the VM team members
>>>>> apply to the latest virtual machine.
>>>>> * The scripts will be kept under version control. (Following on
>>>>> from a comment from Hamish about the value of svn)
>>>>> * If a .deb file exists for a project, all the better. The
>>>>> install script will just be one line long.
>>>>> * These scripts could be integrated into a greater build script
>>>>> as we progress.
>>>>> * I expect these bash scripts would eventually become the basis
>>>>> of a .deb file?
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. Xubuntu:
>>>>> I suggest that we use Xubuntu as a basis for the GISVM instead
>>>>> of Ubuntu, as it is specifically designed to run on a low
>>>>> powered environment, but still runs all the Ubuntu packages.
>>>>>
>>>>> 3. Wiki pages:
>>>>> There are a few too many LiveDVD wiki pages, which makes it hard
>>>>> for a newbie to find out what is current, and what is not.
>>>>> http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Category:Live-demo
>>>>> I suggest that we consolidate down to a few pages, removing
>>>>> content from some pages and just providing a pointer to more
>>>>> recent pages.
>>>>>
>>>>> 4. Central VM, which we rsync from:
>>>>> As mentioned earlier, I think that we should set up a central
>>>>> virtual machine, probably on OSGeo hardware, which we can all
>>>>> rsync from in order to collaboratively update the same virtual
>>>>> machine.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm interested to hear feedback on this, and I'd like to help
>>>>> out on some of these tasks, if they are considered worth
>>>>> following.
>>>>>
>>>>> -- Cameron Shorter
>>>>> Geospatial Systems Architect
>>>>> Tel: +61 (0)2 8570 5050
>>>>> Mob: +61 (0)419 142 254
>>>>>
>>>>> Think Globally, Fix Locally
>>>>> Geospatial Solutions enhanced with Open Standards and Open Source
>>>>> http://www.lisasoft.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Live-demo mailing list
>>>>> Live-demo at lists.osgeo.org
>>>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/live-demo
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ____________________________________________________________________________________
>>>>> Veja quais são os assuntos do momento no Yahoo! +Buscados
>>>>> http://br.maisbuscados.yahoo.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Cameron Shorter
> Geospatial Systems Architect
> Tel: +61 (0)2 8570 5050
> Mob: +61 (0)419 142 254
>
> Think Globally, Fix Locally
> Geospatial Solutions enhanced with Open Standards and Open Source
> http://www.lisasoft.com
>
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