From lorenzo at ominiverdi.com Wed Jun 21 07:23:35 2006 From: lorenzo at ominiverdi.com (Lorenzo Becchi) Date: Fri Dec 22 15:49:41 2006 Subject: [webmap-discuss] Roll Call Message-ID: <297AF30D-93C0-4F80-9A9C-4B7982AD4FAD@ominiverdi.com> Lorenzo Becchi, ka-map.maptools.org co-developer. hope to help in the discussion. ---------------- Lorenzo Becchi http://www.ominiverdi.org From woodbri at swoodbridge.com Wed Jun 21 09:52:25 2006 From: woodbri at swoodbridge.com (Stephen Woodbridge) Date: Fri Dec 22 15:49:41 2006 Subject: [webmap-discuss] Roll Call In-Reply-To: <297AF30D-93C0-4F80-9A9C-4B7982AD4FAD@ominiverdi.com> References: <297AF30D-93C0-4F80-9A9C-4B7982AD4FAD@ominiverdi.com> Message-ID: <44994F19.8000403@swoodbridge.com> Lorenzo Becchi wrote: > Lorenzo Becchi, ka-map.maptools.org > > co-developer. > > hope to help in the discussion. Hi Lorenzo, Welcome aboard! Hmmm, this list has been very quite of late! Did the discussion move elsewhere? -Steve W From lorenzo at ominiverdi.com Wed Jun 21 09:57:37 2006 From: lorenzo at ominiverdi.com (Lorenzo Becchi) Date: Fri Dec 22 15:49:41 2006 Subject: [webmap-discuss] Roll Call In-Reply-To: <44994F19.8000403@swoodbridge.com> References: <297AF30D-93C0-4F80-9A9C-4B7982AD4FAD@ominiverdi.com> <44994F19.8000403@swoodbridge.com> Message-ID: <16B4D2C9-0E06-4C18-B3CC-21CD27707019@ominiverdi.com> > Welcome aboard! Hmmm, this list has been very quite of late! Did > the discussion move elsewhere? thanks Steve, I've just seen the post before was 2006-04-30. one interesting discussion will be tomorrow kamap#irc.freenode.net see: http://lists.maptools.org/pipermail/ka-map-users/2006-June/001747.html I guess tomorrow we'll should use this list again. ciao Lorenzo On 21/giu/06, at 15:52, Stephen Woodbridge wrote: > Lorenzo Becchi wrote: >> Lorenzo Becchi, ka-map.maptools.org >> co-developer. >> hope to help in the discussion. > > Hi Lorenzo, > > Welcome aboard! Hmmm, this list has been very quite of late! Did > the discussion move elsewhere? > > -Steve W > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: webmap-discuss-unsubscribe@mail.osgeo.org > For additional commands, e-mail: webmap-discuss-help@mail.osgeo.org > From cameron.shorter at gmail.com Fri Jun 23 16:38:51 2006 From: cameron.shorter at gmail.com (Cameron Shorter) Date: Fri Dec 22 15:49:41 2006 Subject: [Mapbuilder-devel] FW: [ka-Map-users] ka-Map and OpenLayers In-Reply-To: References: <7CDD7B94357FD5119E800002A537C46E13F6F0EC@s5-ccr-r1.ccrs.nrcan.gc.ca> Message-ID: <449C515B.3010100@gmail.com> Hello John, Schuyler, ka-map people, and all, It is great to hear you guys are taking the initiative to move your projects closer together. I think these sort of merges will benefit both communities greatly as you are likely to double your developer base and more than double your user base. I am indeed interested to see how we can weave Mapbuilder into your application. I'd love to see all the AJAX webmapping developers building and extending the same codebase rather than extending lots of smaller ones as we are doing now. I missed the IRC (bit late for me). Does someone have logs? And is there design discussions going on somewhere? If so what list? If not, maybe we should use this webmap-discuss list. (It was set up to discuss cross project integration like this). I've heard mention (below) that you are considering using Prototype. I think building upon an AJAX framework is a great idea. What interests me is why Prototype? The other contender I see is Dojo which seems to be well thought out and have a very strong community behind it. John R. Frank wrote: > For those of you interested in this discussion, this page: > > http://trac.openlayers.org/wiki/BusinessCase > > explains the purpose of OpenLayers. Schuyler and I would be glad to > discuss how it might relate to MapBuilder. > > John > > > > > On Thu, 22 Jun 2006, Adair, Mike wrote: > > >>FYI. Not sure how many are following the ka-map list but there is a >>discussion going on about merging/cooperating with the OpenLayers project >>and switching to using Prototype.js as the framework. This is something we >>might consider as well. >> >>Mike > > > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > _______________________________________________ > mapbuilder-devel mailing list > mapbuilder-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mapbuilder-devel > -- Cameron Shorter http://cameron.shorter.net From pspencer at dmsolutions.ca Sat Jun 24 11:10:06 2006 From: pspencer at dmsolutions.ca (Paul Spencer) Date: Fri Dec 22 15:49:41 2006 Subject: [webmap-discuss] Re: [Mapbuilder-devel] FW: [ka-Map-users] ka-Map and OpenLayers In-Reply-To: <449C515B.3010100@gmail.com> References: <7CDD7B94357FD5119E800002A537C46E13F6F0EC@s5-ccr-r1.ccrs.nrcan.gc.ca> <449C515B.3010100@gmail.com> Message-ID: <350980D5-1966-45C0-B83D-C490000BD437@dmsolutions.ca> Cameron, At this point, there have been no design discussions. The question on the table is whether (or not) ka-Map and OpenLayers should merge to form a single project. The discussion on IRC and on the ka-Map mailing list so far has been directed at soliciting feedback from the ka-Map community about the potential merger. The choice of prototype (for ka-Map) is based on my own experience using it. I actually wanted to use Scriptaculous for an application (MapGuide OS Web Studio) and Scriptaculous is built on top of prototype.js. I now have invested in learning it and am not really going to consider switching since I don't find it lacks anything I need. OpenLayers is already using prototype.js - not sure what decision process lead to that, maybe Schuyler or Chris can comment. In any case, it makes for a much easier migration from my point of view. If there are compelling reasons to use another framework, I'd be interested in hearing about it. There is a second discussion that needs to happen, probably on webmap- discuss, or the mapbuilder list. This would concern how MapBuilder and OpenLayers (which in my mind includes ka-Map now) can work together. There are substantial similarities and differences between the projects. I think that OpenLayers could be used as the Map Widget in a MapBuilder application. From a short conversation with Chris, it seems that you could use OpenLayers to manage both tiled and non-tiled map draws. I think that has some interesting possibilities :) The third discussion that also needs to happen on webmap-discuss is the issue of the proposed WMS-C standard proposal. I am particularly interested in this as I can see the tile caching component of ka-Map forming the basis of a reference implementation of the proposed WMS-C and living as either a separate project or an optional sub-project of OpenLayers/ka-Map. Cheers Paul On 23-Jun-06, at 4:38 PM, Cameron Shorter wrote: > Hello John, Schuyler, ka-map people, and all, > > It is great to hear you guys are taking the initiative to move your > projects closer together. I think these sort of merges will > benefit both communities greatly as you are likely to double your > developer base and more than double your user base. > > I am indeed interested to see how we can weave Mapbuilder into your > application. I'd love to see all the AJAX webmapping developers > building and extending the same codebase rather than extending lots > of smaller ones as we are doing now. > > I missed the IRC (bit late for me). Does someone have logs? And > is there design discussions going on somewhere? If so what list? > If not, maybe we should use this webmap-discuss list. (It was set > up to discuss cross project integration like this). > > I've heard mention (below) that you are considering using > Prototype. I think building upon an AJAX framework is a great > idea. What interests me is why Prototype? The other contender I > see is Dojo which seems to be well thought out and have a very > strong community behind it. > > John R. Frank wrote: >> For those of you interested in this discussion, this page: >> http://trac.openlayers.org/wiki/BusinessCase >> explains the purpose of OpenLayers. Schuyler and I would be glad to >> discuss how it might relate to MapBuilder. >> John >> On Thu, 22 Jun 2006, Adair, Mike wrote: >>> FYI. Not sure how many are following the ka-map list but there is a >>> discussion going on about merging/cooperating with the OpenLayers >>> project >>> and switching to using Prototype.js as the framework. This is >>> something we >>> might consider as well. >>> >>> Mike >> Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, >> security? >> Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your >> job easier >> Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache >> Geronimo >> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel? >> cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 >> _______________________________________________ >> mapbuilder-devel mailing list >> mapbuilder-devel@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mapbuilder-devel > > > -- > Cameron Shorter > http://cameron.shorter.net > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: webmap-discuss-unsubscribe@mail.osgeo.org > For additional commands, e-mail: webmap-discuss-help@mail.osgeo.org > +-----------------------------------------------------------------+ |Paul Spencer pspencer@dmsolutions.ca | +-----------------------------------------------------------------+ |Applications & Software Development | |DM Solutions Group Inc http://www.dmsolutions.ca/| +-----------------------------------------------------------------+ From cameron.shorter at gmail.com Sat Jun 24 17:12:27 2006 From: cameron.shorter at gmail.com (Cameron Shorter) Date: Fri Dec 22 15:49:41 2006 Subject: [webmap-discuss] ka-Map and OpenLayers - prototype/Dojo In-Reply-To: <350980D5-1966-45C0-B83D-C490000BD437@dmsolutions.ca> References: <7CDD7B94357FD5119E800002A537C46E13F6F0EC@s5-ccr-r1.ccrs.nrcan.gc.ca> <449C515B.3010100@gmail.com> <350980D5-1966-45C0-B83D-C490000BD437@dmsolutions.ca> Message-ID: <449DAABB.9090009@gmail.com> 3 issues were brought up in this email, so I've broken it into 3 responses (and kept to the webmap-discuss list). Paul Spencer wrote: > The choice of prototype (for ka-Map) is based on my own experience > using it. I actually wanted to use Scriptaculous for an application > (MapGuide OS Web Studio) and Scriptaculous is built on top of > prototype.js. I now have invested in learning it and am not really > going to consider switching since I don't find it lacks anything I need. > > OpenLayers is already using prototype.js - not sure what decision > process lead to that, maybe Schuyler or Chris can comment. In any > case, it makes for a much easier migration from my point of view. > > If there are compelling reasons to use another framework, I'd be > interested in hearing about it. I have not used prototype. I've been watching Dojo for 6 months or so, but have not used it yet. Dojo have addressed a number of AJAX issues like events, dynamic loading, OO programming, compression, etc, and they have a strong user community and good documentation. However, I don't have my heart set on Dojo and I'm open to using another library if it meets requirements. -- Cameron Shorter http://cameron.shorter.net From cameron.shorter at gmail.com Sat Jun 24 17:41:54 2006 From: cameron.shorter at gmail.com (Cameron Shorter) Date: Fri Dec 22 15:49:41 2006 Subject: [webmap-discuss] ka-Map and OpenLayers - WMS-C In-Reply-To: <350980D5-1966-45C0-B83D-C490000BD437@dmsolutions.ca> References: <7CDD7B94357FD5119E800002A537C46E13F6F0EC@s5-ccr-r1.ccrs.nrcan.gc.ca> <449C515B.3010100@gmail.com> <350980D5-1966-45C0-B83D-C490000BD437@dmsolutions.ca> Message-ID: <449DB1A2.6060709@gmail.com> Paul Spencer wrote: > The third discussion that also needs to happen on webmap-discuss is the > issue of the proposed WMS-C standard proposal. I am particularly > interested in this as I can see the tile caching component of ka-Map > forming the basis of a reference implementation of the proposed WMS-C > and living as either a separate project or an optional sub-project of > OpenLayers/ka-Map. Steven would be best to talk to this as he is implimenting tiling within Mapbuilder, but I'm keen to see Mapbuilder's solution to be the same as ka-map/OpenLayers and I think that is Steven's approach too. If we can use the same code (in the form of a joint library) then that would be good too. Is anyone involved in developing the WMS-C spec in the OWS4 testbed? -- Cameron Shorter http://cameron.shorter.net From cameron.shorter at gmail.com Sat Jun 24 18:20:33 2006 From: cameron.shorter at gmail.com (Cameron Shorter) Date: Fri Dec 22 15:49:41 2006 Subject: ka-Map and OpenLayers - and Mapbuilder? In-Reply-To: <350980D5-1966-45C0-B83D-C490000BD437@dmsolutions.ca> References: <7CDD7B94357FD5119E800002A537C46E13F6F0EC@s5-ccr-r1.ccrs.nrcan.gc.ca> <449C515B.3010100@gmail.com> <350980D5-1966-45C0-B83D-C490000BD437@dmsolutions.ca> Message-ID: <449DBAB1.30502@gmail.com> Paul Spencer wrote: > There is a second discussion that needs to happen, probably on webmap- > discuss, or the mapbuilder list. This would concern how MapBuilder and > OpenLayers (which in my mind includes ka-Map now) can work together. > There are substantial similarities and differences between the > projects. I think that OpenLayers could be used as the Map Widget in a > MapBuilder application. From a short conversation with Chris, it seems > that you could use OpenLayers to manage both tiled and non-tiled map > draws. I think that has some interesting possibilities :) Yes, I'd like to revisit this when you are ready. -- Cameron Shorter http://cameron.shorter.net From aaronkoning at gmail.com Sun Jun 25 05:22:02 2006 From: aaronkoning at gmail.com (Aaron Koning) Date: Fri Dec 22 15:49:41 2006 Subject: Annoucement - FIST version 0.4 beta released Message-ID: <1319fbba0606250222w3761345aj34f876c27ac60c65@mail.gmail.com> FIST version 0.4 beta released -------------------------------------------------------------------- I would like to announce the availability of Flexible Internet Spatial Template (FIST) version 0.4 beta. This release is largely about making FIST easier to install and administrate. Key features of this release include: * a new directory structure for easier management of projects; * integration and enhancement of the FIST-Admin interface for administrating map services; * installation/testing with MS4W and FGS has been completed; and * installation instructions for both MS4W and FGS are provided. Download: http://datashare.gis.unbc.ca/fist/downloads.php Documentation: http://datashare.gis.unbc.ca/fist/docs/0.4/documentation.php Change log: http://datashare.gis.unbc.ca/fist/history.php Mailing list sign up: http://www.freelists.org/list/fist-users Mailing list archives: http://www.freelists.org/archives/fist-users/ Thanks for your time, Aaron Koning +-------------------------------------------- | Aaron Koning | Information Technologist | Prince George, BC, Canada. +-------------------------------------------- | http://datashare.gis.unbc.ca/fist/ | http://datashare.gis.unbc.ca/gctp-js/ +-------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/mail_webmap-discuss/attachments/20060625/0757737f/attachment.html From Mike.Adair at CCRS.NRCan.gc.ca Mon Jun 26 09:31:58 2006 From: Mike.Adair at CCRS.NRCan.gc.ca (Adair, Mike) Date: Fri Dec 22 15:49:41 2006 Subject: [webmap-discuss] Re: ka-Map and OpenLayers - and Mapbuilder? Message-ID: <7CDD7B94357FD5119E800002A537C46E13F6F0F7@s5-ccr-r1.ccrs.nrcan.gc.ca> I think the advantage that MapBuilder can bring to the table is the Model-View-Controller (MVC) design pattern. This provides really good separation of data and it's representation in the web page, and provides great flexibility for configuring an application. Having said that, there are many people who don't understand our XML configuration file and prefer a JavaScript API for configuring an application which is the OpenLayers approach. Hopefully there might be a way for the 2 approaches to co-exist. I do agree that it would be great to share development effort. I can see this going one of 2 ways: a full-blown merge of projects, or MapBuilder switches to the prototype.js framework (or whatever is selected) and there is a shared widget library. Personally, I have much catching up to do on this topic, but I'm following the discussion with interest. Mike > -----Original Message----- > From: Cameron Shorter [mailto:cameron.shorter@gmail.com] > Sent: June 24, 2006 6:21 PM > To: webmap-discuss@mail.osgeo.org > Cc: John R. Frank; Schuyler Erle > Subject: [webmap-discuss] Re: ka-Map and OpenLayers - and Mapbuilder? > > Paul Spencer wrote: > > There is a second discussion that needs to happen, probably > on webmap- > > discuss, or the mapbuilder list. This would concern how > MapBuilder > > and OpenLayers (which in my mind includes ka-Map now) can > work together. > > There are substantial similarities and differences between the > > projects. I think that OpenLayers could be used as the Map > Widget in > > a MapBuilder application. From a short conversation with > Chris, it > > seems that you could use OpenLayers to manage both tiled and > > non-tiled map draws. I think that has some interesting > possibilities > > :) > > Yes, I'd like to revisit this when you are ready. > > > -- > Cameron Shorter > http://cameron.shorter.net > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: webmap-discuss-unsubscribe@mail.osgeo.org > For additional commands, e-mail: webmap-discuss-help@mail.osgeo.org > From steven.ottens at geodan.nl Mon Jun 26 10:05:05 2006 From: steven.ottens at geodan.nl (Steven M. Ottens) Date: Fri Dec 22 15:49:41 2006 Subject: [webmap-discuss] ka-Map and OpenLayers - WMS-C In-Reply-To: <449DB1A2.6060709@gmail.com> References: <7CDD7B94357FD5119E800002A537C46E13F6F0EC@s5-ccr-r1.ccrs.nrcan.gc.ca> <449C515B.3010100@gmail.com> <350980D5-1966-45C0-B83D-C490000BD437@dmsolutions.ca> <449DB1A2.6060709@gmail.com> Message-ID: <449FE991.6010403@geodan.nl> Cameron Shorter wrote: > Paul Spencer wrote: >> The third discussion that also needs to happen on webmap-discuss is >> the issue of the proposed WMS-C standard proposal. I am >> particularly interested in this as I can see the tile caching >> component of ka-Map forming the basis of a reference implementation >> of the proposed WMS-C and living as either a separate project or an >> optional sub-project of OpenLayers/ka-Map. > > Steven would be best to talk to this as he is implimenting tiling > within Mapbuilder, but I'm keen to see Mapbuilder's solution to be the > same as ka-map/OpenLayers and I think that is Steven's approach too. > If we can use the same code (in the form of a joint library) then that > would be good too. Right now I've designed to fit tiling as much in mapbuilder as possible. This means that after the user finishes panning/zooming the tiles are requested. I would prefer the more dynamic grid approach done by OpenLayers, but it requires a rewrite of the event model, which probably has to happen at some point but now is not the right time I believe. (the winter with lots of dark nights is much more suited) Mapbuilder calculates which tiles it requires and request them all as a standard WMS request. The server has no knowledge of tiling, but does have caching enabled. I'm very much aware that there are some issues on WMS-C that have to be solved server side and as such we need a WMS-C server or preprocessor (like tile.php) But I'm in favor of a WMS-degradable one if possible, but I'm willing to be converted. -Using WMS-degradable standard leaves the option open to use existing mapservers, albeit with minor tweaks like serverside-caching. The more advanced features can be added in the process by server developers. -The ka-map style does make sense from a grid point of view, although the request can made a bit more clear, like row= and column= instead of t= and l= If we go onto this path we're leaving all existing WMS servers behind us and rely on new servers/preprocessors, not sure that's wise. my 2cents, Steven > Is anyone involved in developing the WMS-C spec in the OWS4 testbed? > > -- Geodan S&R Amsterdam ------------------------------------- Geodan S&R President Kennedylaan 1 1079 MB Amsterdam (NL) ------------------------------------- Tel: +31 (0)20 - 5711 311 Fax: +31 (0)20 - 5711 333 ------------------------------------- E-mail: steven.ottens@geodan.nl Website: www.geodan.nl Disclaimer: www.geodan.nl/disclaimer ------------------------------------- From dmorissette at mapgears.com Mon Jun 26 11:17:34 2006 From: dmorissette at mapgears.com (Daniel Morissette) Date: Fri Dec 22 15:49:41 2006 Subject: [webmap-discuss] ka-Map and OpenLayers - WMS-C In-Reply-To: <449DB1A2.6060709@gmail.com> References: <7CDD7B94357FD5119E800002A537C46E13F6F0EC@s5-ccr-r1.ccrs.nrcan.gc.ca> <449C515B.3010100@gmail.com> <350980D5-1966-45C0-B83D-C490000BD437@dmsolutions.ca> <449DB1A2.6060709@gmail.com> Message-ID: <449FFA8E.7030106@mapgears.com> Cameron Shorter wrote: > > Is anyone involved in developing the WMS-C spec in the OWS4 testbed? > I have seen a few mentions of WMS-C recently, is there any draft WMS-C spec document that we can look at? -- Daniel Morissette http://www.mapgears.com/ From adoyle at eogeo.org Mon Jun 26 11:48:00 2006 From: adoyle at eogeo.org (Allan Doyle) Date: Fri Dec 22 15:49:41 2006 Subject: [webmap-discuss] ka-Map and OpenLayers - WMS-C In-Reply-To: <449FFA8E.7030106@mapgears.com> References: <7CDD7B94357FD5119E800002A537C46E13F6F0EC@s5-ccr-r1.ccrs.nrcan.gc.ca> <449C515B.3010100@gmail.com> <350980D5-1966-45C0-B83D-C490000BD437@dmsolutions.ca> <449DB1A2.6060709@gmail.com> <449FFA8E.7030106@mapgears.com> Message-ID: <72BB1043-0772-4F06-80D9-0C546EB51AD4@eogeo.org> On Jun 26, 2006, at 11:17, Daniel Morissette wrote: > Cameron Shorter wrote: >> Is anyone involved in developing the WMS-C spec in the OWS4 testbed? > > I have seen a few mentions of WMS-C recently, is there any draft > WMS-C spec document that we can look at? Spec is a bit strong - http://wiki.osgeo.org/index.php/WMS_Tile_Caching > > -- > Daniel Morissette > http://www.mapgears.com/ > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: webmap-discuss-unsubscribe@mail.osgeo.org > For additional commands, e-mail: webmap-discuss-help@mail.osgeo.org > -- Allan Doyle +1.781.433.2695 adoyle@eogeo.org From cameron.shorter at gmail.com Mon Jun 26 16:09:19 2006 From: cameron.shorter at gmail.com (Cameron Shorter) Date: Fri Dec 22 15:49:41 2006 Subject: [webmap-discuss] ka-Map and OpenLayers - WMS-C In-Reply-To: <20060626142004.GG25038@metacarta.com> References: <7CDD7B94357FD5119E800002A537C46E13F6F0EC@s5-ccr-r1.ccrs.nrcan.gc.ca> <449C515B.3010100@gmail.com> <350980D5-1966-45C0-B83D-C490000BD437@dmsolutions.ca> <449DB1A2.6060709@gmail.com> <449FE991.6010403@geodan.nl> <20060626142004.GG25038@metacarta.com> Message-ID: <44A03EEF.3030507@gmail.com> I'm open to this. Steven, what do you think? Schuyler, would you like to join our Mapbuilder weekly meeting? Thusday at 11:00 UTC. Sydney 21:00 London 12:00 New York 07:00 Paris 13:00 Server: irc.freenode.net Channel: #mapbuilder Schuyler Erle wrote: > * On 26-Jun-2006 at 10:05AM EDT, Steven M. Ottens said: > >>Right now I've designed to fit tiling as much in mapbuilder as possible. >>This means that after the user finishes panning/zooming the tiles are >>requested. I would prefer the more dynamic grid approach done by >>OpenLayers, but it requires a rewrite of the event model, which probably >>has to happen at some point but now is not the right time I believe. > > > This may sound crazy at first, but why not use OpenLayers directly > inside MapBuilder? All an OpenLayers.Map object needs is a div to > inhabit, and you can override the default set of controls quite > easily. You can also use the single-file build tools to create a > stripped-down version that focuses purely on WMS display. I would be > interested in exploring this idea further on IRC or on one of the > project mailing lists. > > SDDE > -- Cameron Shorter http://cameron.shorter.net From steven.ottens at geodan.nl Tue Jun 27 04:22:01 2006 From: steven.ottens at geodan.nl (Steven M. Ottens) Date: Fri Dec 22 15:49:41 2006 Subject: [webmap-discuss] ka-Map and OpenLayers - WMS-C In-Reply-To: <44A03EEF.3030507@gmail.com> References: <7CDD7B94357FD5119E800002A537C46E13F6F0EC@s5-ccr-r1.ccrs.nrcan.gc.ca> <449C515B.3010100@gmail.com> <350980D5-1966-45C0-B83D-C490000BD437@dmsolutions.ca> <449DB1A2.6060709@gmail.com> <449FE991.6010403@geodan.nl> <20060626142004.GG25038@metacarta.com> <44A03EEF.3030507@gmail.com> Message-ID: <44A0EAA9.1040303@geodan.nl> I had a quick chat with Schuyler and some others. We discovered that for a basic demo with just pan and zoom it shouldn't be too difficult. But when we want to use layer control quite some work needs to be done on both sides. One solution might be that OL supports WMC/OWSContext so we can do 'our' thing on the WMC and give it to OL to render it. Steven Cameron Shorter wrote: > I'm open to this. Steven, what do you think? > > Schuyler, would you like to join our Mapbuilder weekly meeting? > Thusday at 11:00 UTC. > > Sydney 21:00 > London 12:00 > New York 07:00 > Paris 13:00 > > Server: irc.freenode.net > Channel: #mapbuilder > > Schuyler Erle wrote: >> * On 26-Jun-2006 at 10:05AM EDT, Steven M. Ottens said: >> >>> Right now I've designed to fit tiling as much in mapbuilder as >>> possible. >>> This means that after the user finishes panning/zooming the tiles are >>> requested. I would prefer the more dynamic grid approach done by >>> OpenLayers, but it requires a rewrite of the event model, which >>> probably >>> has to happen at some point but now is not the right time I believe. >> >> >> This may sound crazy at first, but why not use OpenLayers directly >> inside MapBuilder? All an OpenLayers.Map object needs is a div to >> inhabit, and you can override the default set of controls quite >> easily. You can also use the single-file build tools to create a >> stripped-down version that focuses purely on WMS display. I would be >> interested in exploring this idea further on IRC or on one of the >> project mailing lists. >> >> SDDE >> > > -- Geodan S&R Amsterdam ------------------------------------- Geodan S&R President Kennedylaan 1 1079 MB Amsterdam (NL) ------------------------------------- Tel: +31 (0)20 - 5711 311 Fax: +31 (0)20 - 5711 333 ------------------------------------- E-mail: steven.ottens@geodan.nl Website: www.geodan.nl Disclaimer: www.geodan.nl/disclaimer ------------------------------------- From pspencer at dmsolutions.ca Thu Jun 29 08:34:32 2006 From: pspencer at dmsolutions.ca (Paul Spencer) Date: Fri Dec 22 15:49:41 2006 Subject: cscs and proj.js Message-ID: Hi, I'm curious about cscs and proj.js from the MapBuilder project. It seems to me that a generic projection library accessible in javascript would be an amazing set of code to share between projects. From what I understand, cscs is being built as a replacement for proj.js because proj.js didn't scale well? Is there any real plan for cscs yet in terms of what projections will be supported etc? Does anyone know if WKT will be supported in addition to the proj style definitions? Cheers Paul +-----------------------------------------------------------------+ |Paul Spencer pspencer@dmsolutions.ca | +-----------------------------------------------------------------+ |Applications & Software Development | |DM Solutions Group Inc http://www.dmsolutions.ca/| +-----------------------------------------------------------------+ From crschmidt at crschmidt.net Thu Jun 29 09:29:32 2006 From: crschmidt at crschmidt.net (Christopher Schmidt) Date: Fri Dec 22 15:49:41 2006 Subject: Introducing OpenLayers v1.0 Message-ID: <20060629132932.GA11230@crschmidt.net> OpenLayers is an BSD-licensed pure JavaScript API for building map applications on the Web. OpenLayers offer offers the ability to display a number of different types of data in a configurable mapping interface. On behalf of the OpenLayers development team, I have the honor and pleasure of presenting version 1.0 of OpenLayers. 1.0 Release API URL: http://openlayers.org/api/1.0/OpenLayers.js Latest Stable API URL: http://openlayers.org/api/OpenLayers.js 1.0 Release Tarball: http://openlayers.org/download/OpenLayers-1.0.tar.gz You can see some example OpenLayers applications here: http://openlayers.org/gallery/ The 1.0 release includes support for display of: * Markers * Popups * Tiled WMS Images * WFS Results (as points) * Textual (tab-seperated) data Development continues at a fast pace. Currently, the development branch of OpenLayers supports: * ka-Map data * WorldWind data * Untiled WMS Requests * GeoRSS data Our next release will support drawing and reprojection of vector data on to: * Google Maps * Yahoo Maps * Microsoft Virtual Earth One of the many goals of OpenLayers is to allow users to use one API, and one look and feel, but display data from any source. To that end, we have created a system which allows for any data provider to create their own layers to be displayed alongside any others in OpenLayers. The API is inspired by the Google Maps API, designed to make the simple things easy, and the difficult things possible. Development of OpenLayers is currently funded in part by MetaCarta: http://www.metacarta.com/ Please give OpenLayers a whirl and let us know what you think! http://openlayers.org/ -- Christopher Schmidt Web Developer From steven.ottens at geodan.nl Fri Jun 30 07:55:20 2006 From: steven.ottens at geodan.nl (Steven M. Ottens) Date: Fri Dec 22 15:49:41 2006 Subject: zoomlevels in OWSContext? Message-ID: <44A51128.1060201@geodan.nl> Hi all, I'm pondering how to store fixed zoom levels in Mapbuilder. Google has them hardcoded in their code, but that only works if you control both the client and the server (like google does). We could also put hardcoded zoomLevels, but that would force the servers to adept to the client. I prefer to make it configurable, but a problem is that different servers can have different zoomLevels. Currently we store out layers in a WMC document, but we're switching to OWSContext to allow for more types of layers then just WMS layers. Since the zoom levels are depending on the server, it makes sense to me to store these levels in OWSContext. Are there any OWSContext experts around who can tell me if that's already in the standard, if not, what would be a proper place and name for such a thing? Also are there ideas how to solve the problem of having different layers with different zoom levels. It is a problem which we all are going to face at one point or another and it might be a good idea to have a similar solution to this problem to increase mergability. Regards, Steven -- Geodan S&R Amsterdam ------------------------------------- Geodan S&R President Kennedylaan 1 1079 MB Amsterdam (NL) ------------------------------------- Tel: +31 (0)20 - 5711 311 Fax: +31 (0)20 - 5711 333 ------------------------------------- E-mail: steven.ottens@geodan.nl Website: www.geodan.nl Disclaimer: www.geodan.nl/disclaimer ------------------------------------- From dmorissette at mapgears.com Fri Jun 30 09:49:10 2006 From: dmorissette at mapgears.com (Daniel Morissette) Date: Fri Dec 22 15:49:41 2006 Subject: [webmap-discuss] zoomlevels in OWSContext? In-Reply-To: <44A51128.1060201@geodan.nl> References: <44A51128.1060201@geodan.nl> Message-ID: <44A52BD6.4080809@mapgears.com> Steven M. Ottens wrote: > > Currently we store out layers in a WMC document, but we're switching to > OWSContext to allow for more types of layers then just WMS layers. Since > the zoom levels are depending on the server, it makes sense to me to > store these levels in OWSContext. > Are there any OWSContext experts around who can tell me if that's > already in the standard, No, that's not part of the OWSContext schema. I participated in the OWS Context IE and don't remember the question of storing multiple zoom levels even being raised at all. Note that WMS doesn't support the concept of fixed zoom levels either, so before multiple zoom levels can be added to OWS Context some work will be required upstream in WMS. > if not, what would be a proper place and name > for such a thing? > If I remember correctly an extension mechanism was included in the schema that could possibly be used for that. I think Tom Kralidis would be the best one to answer on this. I CC'd him in case he is not on this list. Daniel -- Daniel Morissette http://www.mapgears.com/ From pspencer at dmsolutions.ca Fri Jun 30 10:58:54 2006 From: pspencer at dmsolutions.ca (Paul Spencer) Date: Fri Dec 22 15:49:41 2006 Subject: [webmap-discuss] zoomlevels in OWSContext? In-Reply-To: <44A51128.1060201@geodan.nl> References: <44A51128.1060201@geodan.nl> Message-ID: <63D88EE8-D788-4B33-8875-FED0E4EF0E70@dmsolutions.ca> One of the proposals that was being floated around as part of the discussion of WMS-C (wms cached tiling) was the idea that there would be a set of scales that all servers would agree to support and a common projection too. I was initially against this idea, but I am becoming more enamored with it as I think about the implications. My take on it is that a WMS-C server would agree to support a subset of the A set of scales that seems to make intuitive sense is obviously the Google/Yahoo/Microsoft (GYM) set, since they all seem to use the same set of scales (and projection). Unfortunately, I'm not sure that everyone would actually want to use their scales/projections since they don't make a lot of sense for regular GIS use. Another scheme I though about (and discussed with a few folks on IRC) is to start at a scale of 1:1 and use a x2 factor to calculate all other scales. If all the parameters that can affect tiling are nailed down such that any tile request can be guaranteed to match the identical tile request to another server then we've got a system where clients can ingest tiles from any source and overlay them nicely. For those that are interested, I've spent some time digging into the google scheme and here is what I found out ... These articles (http://cfis.savagexi.com/articles/2006/05/03/google- maps-deconstructed and http://cfis.savagexi.com/articles/2006/05/05/ google-maps-revisited) explains what Google is doing (not sure if it is accurate or not, but it seems like a thorough analysis). It boils down to using a WGS84 Mercator projection and zoom levels set up as factors of two with zoom level 0 being constructed such that the earth fills a 256x256 tile. Its a pretty neat scheme ... I've done some calculations based on this scheme and some tests. It turns out that you can reproduce Google's tiling scheme using a projection of: # World Mercator <54004> +proj=merc +lat_ts=0 +lon_0=0 +k=1.000000 +x_0=0 +y_0=0 +ellps=WGS84 +datum=WGS84 +units=m no_defs <> in mapserver (thats not an official epsg code btw) with world extents of EXTENT -20037508.342789 -19994875.249796 20037508.342789 19994875.249796 which represent -180,-85.05112877980660,180,85.05112877980660 in lon/ lat (see http://cfis.savagexi.com/articles/2006/05/05/google-maps- revisited) Using a generalized version of the vmap0 data, I was able to produce a 256x256 tile that matches Google's top level tile almost precisely (differences due to antialiasing and the odd pixel here and there that I assume come from the generalization or data). Hope someone finds this useful at some point Cheers Paul On 30-Jun-06, at 7:55 AM, Steven M. Ottens wrote: > Hi all, > > I'm pondering how to store fixed zoom levels in Mapbuilder. Google has > them hardcoded in their code, but that only works if you control both > the client and the server (like google does). We could also put > hardcoded zoomLevels, but that would force the servers to adept to the > client. I prefer to make it configurable, but a problem is that > different servers can have different zoomLevels. > Currently we store out layers in a WMC document, but we're > switching to > OWSContext to allow for more types of layers then just WMS layers. > Since > the zoom levels are depending on the server, it makes sense to me to > store these levels in OWSContext. > Are there any OWSContext experts around who can tell me if that's > already in the standard, if not, what would be a proper place and name > for such a thing? > > Also are there ideas how to solve the problem of having different > layers > with different zoom levels. It is a problem which we all are going to > face at one point or another and it might be a good idea to have a > similar solution to this problem to increase mergability. > > Regards, > Steven > -- > > Geodan S&R Amsterdam > > ------------------------------------- > Geodan S&R > President Kennedylaan 1 > 1079 MB Amsterdam (NL) > ------------------------------------- > Tel: +31 (0)20 - 5711 311 > Fax: +31 (0)20 - 5711 333 > ------------------------------------- > E-mail: steven.ottens@geodan.nl > Website: www.geodan.nl > Disclaimer: www.geodan.nl/disclaimer > ------------------------------------- > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: webmap-discuss-unsubscribe@mail.osgeo.org > For additional commands, e-mail: webmap-discuss-help@mail.osgeo.org > +-----------------------------------------------------------------+ |Paul Spencer pspencer@dmsolutions.ca | +-----------------------------------------------------------------+ |Applications & Software Development | |DM Solutions Group Inc http://www.dmsolutions.ca/| +-----------------------------------------------------------------+ From Tom.Kralidis at ec.gc.ca Fri Jun 30 11:59:58 2006 From: Tom.Kralidis at ec.gc.ca (Kralidis,Tom [Burlington]) Date: Fri Dec 22 15:49:41 2006 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [webmap-discuss] zoomlevels in OWSContext?] Message-ID: <2576812186CDD411BF1500508B6DCE950F0090BB@ecnwri1.ontario.int.ec.gc.ca> (Thanks Daniel for forwarding this to me, I'm now a part of this list again :)) > > Steven M. Ottens wrote: > > > > Currently we store out layers in a WMC document, but we're > switching > > to OWSContext to allow for more types of layers then just > WMS layers. > > Since the zoom levels are depending on the server, it makes > sense to > > me to store these levels in OWSContext. Are there any OWSContext > > experts around who can tell me if that's already in the standard, > > No, that's not part of the OWSContext schema. I participated > in the OWS Context IE and don't remember the question of > storing multiple zoom levels even being raised at all. Note > that WMS doesn't support the concept of fixed zoom levels > either, so before multiple zoom levels can be added to OWS > Context some work will be required upstream in WMS. > Correct. Since OWSContext is based on OGC specifications, this doesn't apply. > > if not, what would be a proper place and name > > for such a thing? > > > > If I remember correctly an extension mechanism was included > in the schema that could possibly be used for that. I think > Tom Kralidis would be the best one to answer on this. I CC'd > him in case he is not on this list. > There is an extension element in the OWSContext schemas (schema chunk below) which allows this: This allows additional elements to be added to support non WMS Layer services. Yes, fairy dust :) The basic approach is to define your own namespace in the root element of the OWSContext instance doc (i.e. xmlns:foo="http://foo/foo"), and then use that prefix within the document when applying your own constructs, i.e.: 1,2,4,8,16,32,64 Having said this, if you are going to be adding extensions, I would suggest that these be agreed upon in some way, so at the least the extensions are defacto; so it's great that it's being discussed here. ..Tom > Daniel > -- > Daniel Morissette > http://www.mapgears.com/ > >