[mapserver-users] XML mapfile?

[C F]

The XML list sounds like a good idea, but I'm concerned that only XML 
proponents would subscribe.... then there'd be nobody to argue with.  
Where's the fun?  Now for the fun...
XML was not "designed" to be be manually edited by humans?  What has that 
got to do with anything?  Whether that statement is true or not is 
irrelevant.  I don't think C was "designed" for building Internet 
applications.  Oh my goodness.... look where my coat is hanging... on my 
door.  I better get a closet installed in my office.  If that truly is your 
concern then I might point out that ArcIMS and MapGuide do use XML 
configuration files.  I am by no means a promponent of ArcIMS... I'm saying 
this to let people know that this isn't just some maverick idea just to be 
cool and jump on the latest technology as some have suggested.  This is a 
relatively recent addition to MapGuide with one of the main driving forces 
behind it being that user's needed a more dynamic, on-the-fly configurable 
approach to the map service....
I worked with XML for over a year in Notepad before I even tried XML editing 
tools simply because I was lazy and didn't feel like installing more 
software on my machine.  Editing XML by hand has NEVER been a deterrent or a 
concern for me or even any of my colleagues.  We have people of all walks of 
life manually editing XML.  Never has been a concern for anyone I've 
known.... was surprised to hear that come up.  If you had only a day to 
teach someone to write/edit XML or teach someone to write Perl, which would 
you choose?  If a Java developer wanted to develop an application with 
MapServer and some specific abilities that he/she needed could be 
accomplished with either XML or Perl which do you think would be the choice?
I think most of those who are flatly opposed to the idea are viewing this as 
us simply wanting to change the format of the mapfile file.  We don't want 
to change the format just to change the format.  Having the XML option is a 
proposed solution to elminate current limitations, standardize, require less 
programming, improve functionality, stimulate growth.... etc etc...

I think the others simply want to hear concrete benefits you'd get from 
doing something like this.... to me, this reasonable skepticism and 
hopefully some of your questions have been answered by all of the 
contributions to the discussion.... and much more discussion will be 
required.

Okay, back to lurk mode.  BTW, does anyoone have a glossary for Internet 
discussion acronyms.... "FWIW  -  IMHO and AFAIK"???



>From: "Norman Vine" <nhv at cape.com>
>Reply-To: <nhv at cape.com>
>To: <mapserver-users at lists.gis.umn.edu>
>Subject: RE: [mapserver-users] XML mapfile?
>Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 05:12:07 -0400
>
>Steve Lime writes:
> >
> >Man, what a chatty list recently. A couple of things are clear:
> >
> >  - XML certainly will have some role to play
> >  - nobody wants to see the current format go away anytime soon
> >
> >That's good cause that was my plan all along. <g> If anyone has noticed
> >a crude mapfile.dtd has been part of the distribution for some time now.
> >I found it a convenient way to document the format. Clearly though
> >schemas are the way to go.
> >
> >Anyway, I might suggest taking this discussion offline to another list,
> >perhaps mapserver-xml or something along those lines. I can request that
> >the UMN set that up for us. Sound reasonable?
>
>A separate list sounds like a good idea
>
> >>>> Mike Haarman wrote:
> >>On Wed, 22 May 2002, Norman Vine wrote:
> >
> >> FWIW  -  IMHO and AFAIK xml though an ASCII format and a very useful
> >> one at that,  was NOT designed to ever be directly manipulated by
> >humans
> >
> >*XML documents should be human-legible and reasonably clear.*
> >
> >That was number six on the top ten original design goals for XML.
>
>Yes,  BUT IMHO 'human-legible and reasonably clear' does not imply
>human-manipulable and although I realize that 'experts' routinely do so,
>non-experts IMHO are much more comfortable in a 'domain specific'
>language or a 'higher-level tool then a text editor,  hence my seconding
>the idea of a XML to MapFile translator as a first step :-)
>
>Cheers
>
>Norman




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