[Mapserver-users] MapServer w/PostgreSQL/PostGIS on Windows

Fri Jul 30 16:48:30 PDT 2004

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------070805040209010001060303
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi Bill,

While I don't  have personally run PostgreSQL in windows, I can comment 
my experience with other applications in cygwin and my predictions for 
the different Winbugs Pg incantations.

We had an old GRASS install running on Irix on an equally old SGI box.  
When the time to update came, the final solution was to run GRASS 
through cygwin in the same workstations that had ArcView, so they could 
coexist merrily thereafter.  And they do just that: X/GRASS runs 
perfectly, if just a little slower becouse of the compatibility layer 
(cygwin).  The only problems I have runned in so far where small bugs in 
basic libaries (gettext, if I recall correctly) that caused several 
errors when parsing certain text files, but that was fixed quickly.

So I would expect PostgreSQL to run fine, if not perfectly. The 
considerations that made the Pg team to not recommend running a 
production server over cygwin (in PostgreSQL on Windows) 
<http://techdocs.postgresql.org/guides/Windows> are not that important, 
unless you really face high load levels with critical data.

Production server means your server is used by the end users (as oposed 
to developers, that produce tools, end users produce fruits... 
whatever).  My little directory database, is in "production state".

"High load levels" doesn't necessarily means you can take an 
Slashdotting, but that your server will be running 24/7 with many users 
most of the time ("loads" on peak hours).   In cygwin you can't fine 
tune PostreSQL as in Unix, and considering the additional performance 
hit from the compatibility layer, and the one inherent to the OS ;-) , 
you'll never reach the same performance in cygwin that in a Unix with 
the same hardware configuration.

The other considerations refer to the lack of testing of many 
specialized Pg routines, so no one is sure if a server in cygwin will 
handle a blackout or system crash as its suposed to, so the data 
integrity its not guarantied.

I guess your server will never be under high stress, and you could stand 
an ocasional crash (though I can't say how frequent that would be).

Having said that, the native 
<http://momjian.postgresql.org/main/writings/pgsql/win32.html> port 
looks really promising. The current preview 
<http://www.hagander.net/pgsql/win32snap/> would be my bet, since it 
appears to handle reliably already.

But then again, having said that, I see not reason (marketing has never 
been one to me :-P ) to run anything serious in a castrated enviroment 
as Winbugs if you can do it in the raw power of Linux, especially 
Debian: just the package system /outrulez /any other distro.  The 
stability and security of /stable/, the great variety of supported 
architectures and prepackaged programs, and the great community just 
make it even more appealing.  Almost any Unix will grant the most 
stability, performance and compatibility for your applications.

Cheers

Bill Stephenson wrote:

> We're exploring the development of a value added product that requires 
> an SQL database and some GIS capabilities. I've recommended using 
> MapServer w/PostgreSQL/PostGIS running on a MacOS X server as the 
> foundation for this project.
>
> One of the team members (marketing) says we must deploy on Windows. 
> PostgreSQL.org says this:  " we don't recommend using  the cygwin 
> version of PostgreSQL for "Production"  quality databases, nor high 
> load levels." (http://techdocs.postgresql.org/guides/Windows)
>
> I'm not sure how to take that. I don't think we'll be experiencing 
> "high load levels", but I'm also not sure what is considered a "high 
> load level" for this database. I also don't exactly understand what 
> defines a "Production" quality database.  The other versions of 
> Windows ports for PostgreSQL are not reviewed in detail on this page 
> but I get the impression that PostgreSQL is really only solid when 
> deployed on a UNIX system.
>
> Any impressions, comments, details on set-up, performance or problems, 
> from those who've deployed MapServer w/PostgreSQL/PostGIS on Windows 
> would be much appreciated.
>
> Kindest Regards,
>
> Bill Stephenson
>
> _______________________________________________
> Mapserver-users mailing list
> Mapserver-users at lists.gis.umn.edu
> http://lists.gis.umn.edu/mailman/listinfo/mapserver-users
>

--------------070805040209010001060303
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
 <meta content="text/html;charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
 <title></title>
</head>
<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
Hi Bill, 
 
While I don'tÂ  have personally run PostgreSQL in windows, I can comment
my experience with other applications in cygwin and my predictions for
the different Winbugs Pg incantations. 
 
We had an old GRASS install running on Irix on an equally old SGI box.Â 
When the time to update came, the final solution was to run GRASS
through cygwin in the same workstations that had ArcView, so they could
coexist merrily thereafter.Â  And they do just that: X/GRASS runs
perfectly, if just a little slower becouse of the compatibility layer
(cygwin).Â  The only problems I have runned in so far where small bugs
in basic libaries (gettext, if I recall correctly) that caused several
errors when parsing certain text files, but that was fixed quickly. 
 
So I would expect PostgreSQL to run fine, if not perfectly.Â  The
considerations that made the Pg team to not recommend running a
production server over cygwin (in <a
 href="http://techdocs.postgresql.org/guides/Windows">PostgreSQL on
Windows)</a>Â  are not that important, unless you really face high load
levels with critical data. 
 
Production server means your server is used by the end users (as oposed
to developers, that produce tools, end users produce fruits...
whatever).Â  My little directory database, is in "production state". 
 
"High load levels" doesn't necessarily means you can take an
Slashdotting, but that your server will be running 24/7 with many users
most of the time ("loads" on peak hours).Â Â  In cygwin you can't fine
tune PostreSQL as in Unix, and considering the additional performance
hit from the compatibility layer, and the one inherent to the OS ;-) ,
you'll never reach the same performance in cygwin that in a Unix with
the same hardware configuration. 
 
The other considerations refer to the lack of testing of many
specialized Pg routines, so no one is sure if a server in cygwin will
handle a blackout or system crash as its suposed to, so the data
integrity its not guarantied. 
 
I guess your server will never be under high stress, and you could
stand an ocasional crash (though I can't say how frequent that would
be). 
 
Having said that, the <a
 href="http://momjian.postgresql.org/main/writings/pgsql/win32.html">native</a>
port looks really promising.Â  The current <a
 href="http://www.hagander.net/pgsql/win32snap/">preview</a> would be
my bet, since it appears to handle reliably already. 
 
But then again, having said that, I see not reason (marketing has never
been one to me :-P ) to run anything serious in a castrated enviroment
as Winbugs if you can do it in the raw power of Linux, especially
Debian: just the package system outrulez any other distro.Â 
The stability and security of stable, the great variety of
supported architectures and prepackaged programs, and the great
community just make it even more appealing.Â  Almost any Unix will grant
the most stability, performance and compatibility for your applications. 
 
Cheers 
 
Bill Stephenson wrote:
<blockquote
 cite="mid7B4522BE-E24E-11D8-8E23-000A95E6A7BC at secureshopper.com"
 type="cite">We're exploring the development of a value added product
that requires an SQL database and some GIS capabilities. I've
recommended using MapServer w/PostgreSQL/PostGIS running on a MacOS X
server as the foundation for this project.
 
 
One of the team members (marketing) says we must deploy on Windows.
PostgreSQL.org says this:Â  " we don't recommend usingÂ  the cygwin
version of PostgreSQL for "Production"Â  quality databases, nor high
load levels." (<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://techdocs.postgresql.org/guides/Windows">http://techdocs.postgresql.org/guides/Windows</a>)
 
 
I'm not sure how to take that. I don't think we'll be experiencing
"high load levels", but I'm also not sure what is considered a "high
load level" for this database. I also don't exactly understand what
defines a "Production" quality database.Â  The other versions of Windows
ports for PostgreSQL are not reviewed in detail on this page but I get
the impression that PostgreSQL is really only solid when deployed on a
UNIX system.
 
 
Any impressions, comments, details on set-up, performance or problems,
from those who've deployed MapServer w/PostgreSQL/PostGIS on Windows
would be much appreciated.
 
 
Kindest Regards,
 
 
Bill Stephenson
 
 
_______________________________________________
 
Mapserver-users mailing list
 
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Mapserver-users at lists.gis.umn.edu">Mapserver-users at lists.gis.umn.edu</a>
 
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.gis.umn.edu/mailman/listinfo/mapserver-users">http://lists.gis.umn.edu/mailman/listinfo/mapserver-users</a>
 
 
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>

--------------070805040209010001060303--