Autodesk product naming poll

[Allan Doyle]

On Dec 21, 2005, at 16:22, Dave McIlhagga wrote:

> Hi Ken,
>
> I hope everything is well in Vancouver these days .. I'll be there  
> myself in about 24 hours for Christmas.
>
>
> I felt compelled to write back about this issue -- because I still  
> feel very strongly that there are many very good reasons for having  
> a shared 'MapServer' name with this new web mapping technology.
>
> First of all -- there is a perception that this is simply 'Autodesk  
> technology' but it's important to remember that as soon as the  
> technology is in an arm's length body, under LGPL and with  
> copyright assigned, it becomes as much yours, mine, Autodesk's or  
> anyone elses technology. In fact, even less aligned with any one  
> company than MapServer is today!

It will become so, but slowly. The people who know the code best are  
Autodesk programmers. So for a long time to come, they will be the de  
facto maintainers of the code base. There's no way anyone can jump  
into a codebase that big and take over authoritative decision-making  
about how to do Big Things to the code. Sure, people can fix bugs and  
add little features, but when push comes to shove, if Autodesk  
programmers are not in the loop, then the code base is not going to  
be properly maintained and it will lose value, not gain value.

I'm not sure how it will become less aligned with one company than  
MapServer. The only thing preventing MapServer from also becoming  
less aligned with one company is that other companies may not have  
put as much into it, but that can change.

>
> Autodesk then becomes a participant & contributor to open source as  
> much as our company, private consultants or any other contributing  
> organization is today around MapServer. The Foundation becomes  
> important in this context to ensure fairness, and balance in how  
> technology continues to be developed for the sake of all stakeholders.

This is a non-sequitor. Autodesk could have been participating &  
contributing to MapServer for years. Maybe some people there did, I  
don't know. But there is no causal connection between releasing  
MapGuide as LGPL and Autodesk being able to contribute to MapServer.

>
> And I believe this is just the beginning -- there are sure to be  
> many other organizations discovering that open source web mapping  
> is the platform of choice for the future. We're all going to be  
> working to bring them into the fold.

Do you mean you want to bring in Intergraph, ESRI, etc? Or do you  
mean end-users? I'm not against bringing anyone into the fold, but I  
don't see how a common name will do that.

>
>
> The question you have to really ask is, do we want to grow the  
> MapServer community to be inclusive of a major new participant, and  
> hopefully many more in the future? This is a great way to send a  
> message that MapServer is truly open to everyone.

Are you blurring the distinction between the MapServer Community and  
the Foundation? Anyone can join the MapServer community. It is truly  
open and has been for years.

>
>
> As many have pointed out, MapServer has built up a good reputation  
> over the years -- but the majority of this good reputation has been  
> within the converted .. I can tell you as someone who does a lot of  
> outreach work to the outside world that everyone knows about Google  
> Maps, some folks know about ESRI and MapInfo, and only the most  
> knowledgeable about MapServer. We still have a lot of work to do to  
> reach those people outside of our immediate world -- work I do  
> every day, so working together on a common message makes a lot more  
> sense to me than working apart.


Common message != Common name.

Will the GeoServer, DeeGree, GeoTools, etc. folks be expected to name  
their packages MapServer <something> to bring their map serving code  
into the Foundation? I suspect that would be a disincentive.

>
>
> well -- that's my pitch. I hope everyone has wonderful holidays and  
> I'd like to wish you a Happy New year.

Maybe Santa will leave a shiny new name for MapGuide under the tree!

	Allan

>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Ken Lord wrote:
>> ... And please do check out the comments.
>> So far I seem to be the most adamently against Autodesk taking the
>> MapServer name ... and I think I give some good reasons.
>> To restate what I said in my poll comment, I have already seen a few
>> potential clients confused over the MapServer / Autodesk issue that
>> could easily work to Autodesk's favour ... and I don't actually spend
>> much time building mapserver websites, I'm sure the hard core
>> developers have seen more of this than me.
>> I also don't appreciate the misleading messages I've seen in the  
>> media
>> regarding Autodesk open sourcing MapServer as if it were their's to
>> open source.  My less open source aware friends have been giving
>> Autodesk a lot of undeserved credit because of this lately.
>> This may not be directly Autodesk's fault (unless they have let the
>> media go uncorrected with their misleading articles), but I can  
>> add to
>> this that a coworker attended the recent Autodesk conference in
>> Orlando where the big announcement was made and he came back with  
>> some
>> very different ideas on what the origins of MapServer actually was.
>> Don't get me wrong, I don't hate Autodesk, I spend most of my working
>> hours using Autodesk products, and without these products I'm not  
>> sure
>> what I would have been doing in the last 5 years.
>> But they need to be kept under control.  Want another example on a
>> different topic?
>> ... At that same conference, my coworker was shocked to find that
>> sensitive data from one of our clients was being used as lesson
>> material in a short-course, without our permission, without even
>> removing his name or our company's logo from the map.  This was data
>> sent in confidence to Autodesk to help us overcome an issue with  
>> using
>> the software.   The sad thing is that the solution they demonstrated
>> in the course never was sent to us to fix our problem.  Hopefully no
>> one else recognized the data, it was for a very important client  
>> to us
>> whom we do not want to loose.
>> Don't let the Gorilla step on us ... It's welcome in the zoo, but not
>> in the same cage.
>> Happy Holidays,
>> Ken Lord
>> Vancouver BC
>> On 12/21/05, Tyler Mitchell <tylermitchell at shaw.ca> wrote:
>>> At Gary's request, I've posted another poll to the MapServer  
>>> website to help capture how the community feels about the naming  
>>> of Autodesk's web mapping product.
>>>
>>> Please take the time to login and answer this poll:
>>> http://mapserver.gis.umn.edu/community/polls/autodesk_name/
>>>
>>> Tyler
>>>
>

-- 
Allan Doyle
+1.781.433.2695
adoyle at eogeo.org