Google Maps as Mapserver Layer

Thu Mar 1 21:30:57 PST 2007

On 3/1/07, Ed McNierney <ed at topozone.com> wrote:
> Puneet -
>
> The chief difficulty is when cash-strapped state and local governments
> eagerly provide data to Google (much as was done with Microsoft
> TerraServer) and then think they've "solved the problem" because "look
> how everyone can get it in Google Earth!".  That can make it hard to get
> funding for a state GIS program to, for example, properly set up and
> operate a WMS service for access to the same data - the budget-cutter
> wonder why they should pay for something they "already have for free".
> There's no problem with states providing data to any private firm.  The
> problem is when the providing organization misunderstands what it has
> accomplished.

Ed, I totally agree with you. My only concern is that we have to be
cautious as to what problem we focus on and try to solve. As you note
above, this is not Google's fault. They are doing what any law-abiding
business will do to maximize its raison d'etre. If anyone's it is very
much the fault of the States.

But, let's also look at it from the State's point of view. They are
cash strapped and they can't cook up the resources to make the data
easily available to everyone. Google comes by and offers them a
solution, for free. They sell their soul (figuratively... before
anyone pounces on me for saying that ;-), and they reap some positive
and some negative. In their position, I probably would do the same
unless I could be shown better alternatives. C'est la vie.

In my world-view, it is not an "open source" vs. "proprietary" fight.
I very much see a coexistence of both. I do believe strongly in open
access to intellectual property collected with public funds which, in
this case, happens to be orthos. As you mention below, some are
beginning to learn, and that is where we come in. We give them
reasonable, level-headed solutions that can demonstrate working
together with a multitude of technologies and choices while ensuring
that everyone gets a fair crack at what belong to everyone.

Google Earth and Maps are "cool tools" not because Google made them,
but simply because they indeed are cool. I do not know of any mapping
site or application that so quickly, easily, and impressively soaked
into public consciousness as Google's apps did. And not just with
Slashdot-reading geeks, but even with normal ma and pa. Google just
happens to have a collection of extremely smart programmers who also
created extremely usable tools that popularized mapping. What ESRI, or
even Mapquest and Vicinity, etc., couldn't achieve in years, even
decades, Google did in such a short time that it truly is
breathtaking. Hats off to them. And, the fact is, they could have kept
it all to themselves, but no, they opened it. This not only enriched
the user experience around their own tools, but also forced other
companies and organizations to open up and learn from them. Our own
open source tools learned from them... apps like Ka-map and Open
Layers probably owe a lot of inspiration to Google apps.

Anyway, enough on this. Thanks for listening.

>
> The USGS learned a few lessons in the TerraServer experience; I expect
> other organizations are simply beginning the process of re-learning some
> of those lessons all over again.
>
>         - Ed
>
> Ed McNierney
> President and Chief Mapmaker
> TopoZone.com / Maps a la carte, Inc.
> 73 Princeton Street, Suite 305
> North Chelmsford, MA  01863
> Phone: +1 (978) 251-4242
> Fax: +1 (978) 251-1396
> ed at topozone.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: UMN MapServer Users List [mailto:MAPSERVER-USERS at LISTS.UMN.EDU] On
> Behalf Of P Kishor
> Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 5:35 PM
> To: MAPSERVER-USERS at LISTS.UMN.EDU
> Subject: Re: [UMN_MAPSERVER-USERS] Google Maps as Mapserver Layer
>
> this is getting quite OT for MapServer, but what the heck --
>
> On 3/1/07, percy <percyd at pdx.edu> wrote:
> > I have been told directly by colleagues at both the Pennsylvania and
> > Indiana geological surveys about "giving away" the data. Google seems
> > to have feelers out for whenever new data are acquired by state
> agencies...
> >
> > I agree, it's not sinister! But it would be nice to have access to
> > those tiles :-)
>
> but, you do have access to the data. I just checked the Arkansas site
> that Paul provided below, and besides a bunch of innocuous factual
> errors, they clearly point to the repository where all that data are
> still available for anyone to use. Of course, the linked site
> <http://www.rgis.cast.uark.edu/> is non-functional, so I guess I am
> better off using Google Maps ;-)
>
> Think of it this way... the US has a long history of offering publicly
> collected data to anyone for no or minimal cost, and that anyone has the
> freedom to do anything they want to with that data, including selling it
> back to the US! I, for one, am very happy of this policy.
>
> And, so are the mapping companies, for this is what they have made their
> empires out of. The nice thing with Google is, they are giving it back,
> just doing so on their own terms. Given that they are not charging
> anything for it, at least I can live with those terms. If I don't like
> those terms, the original data, the one that Google took, are still
> there for me to take.
>
> I see absolutely no problem with this. If there is any, I would love to
> be educated.
>
>
> >
> > Paul Ramsey wrote:
> > > Puneet,
> > >
> > > Sorry, don't have any particular details, just lots of anecdotal
> > > reports of public agencies giving their data to Google in order to
> > > achieve the holy grail of seeing "their data in Google Earth".
> > >
> > >   http://dailyheadlines.uark.edu/7507.htm
> > >
> > > This is not uncommon, and it is not particularly sinister from a
> > > "business" point of view, since the givers are receiving what they
> > > want (access in a kewl tewl) and the givees are receiving what they
> > > want (data they can add to Google Earth for free).
> >
> > --
> > David Percy
> > Geospatial Data Manager
> > Geology Department
> > Portland State University
> > http://gisgeek.pdx.edu
> > 503-725-3373
> >
>

-- 
Puneet Kishor http://punkish.eidesis.org/
Nelson Inst. for Env. Studies, UW-Madison http://www.nelson.wisc.edu/
Open Source Geospatial Foundation http://www.osgeo.org/education/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
collaborate, communicate, compete
=====================================================================