[Marketing] Re: Marketing Digest, Vol 25, Issue 4
Dave McIlhagga
dmcilhagga at dmsolutions.ca
Tue Oct 20 19:26:00 EDT 2009
Hi Peter,
I think we're on the same page here -- but with so much choice in
terms of keywords to focus on - why not use more generic terms like
"web mapping software" or "download desktop GIS".
You can also work a more interoperable angle through something like
"web mapping Oracle" or "Web Mapping SDE" -- pointing to appropriate
open source offerings.
To me this just allows the organization to hold it's head a bit higher
while gaining traction and avoiding getting into the competition
trench wars that you typically find in the proprietary space.
In any case - I should mention that I think this can be a very
powerful tool when used effectively. Search Engine Marketing does work
-- and is something that doesn't require a marketing/communications
team to execute.
I'm pretty immersed in site analytics and keyword research -- so if
any brain picking is required, I would be happy to lend some advice.
Dave
On 2009-10-20, at 6:39 PM, Peter Batty wrote:
> Hi Dave,
>
> I agree with you that we do have to walk a fine line in some cases.
> And I am certainly an advocate that we should be trying to get more
> commercial companies engaged with OSGeo and open source solutions.
> As you know, my background is that I've worked for a couple of the
> largest commercial (and closed source) geospatial vendors.
>
> So to take your latest example with Autodesk, I would agree that we
> shouldn't have marketing material that suggests (explicitly or
> implicitly), "don't buy MapGuide Enterprise, use the free MapGuide
> Open Source instead!!". But at the same time, AutoDesk is not trying
> to hide the fact that there is an open source version of MapGuide,
> so general marketing to persuade the world that MapGuide in general
> is a good thing helps OSGeo and helps Autodesk. Commercial companies
> like Autodesk will typically be looking to make money in one of two
> ways - providing support or consulting services around the free open
> source software, and / or selling additional closed source products
> on top of the open source base. There are plenty of customers out
> there who see value in paying for both of these things. And in
> either case, convincing the world that the base open source product
> is a good thing helps the commercial company make the case for their
> solution.
>
> As we are exploring these sort of marketing ideas, it might be a
> good idea to talk to Autodesk and other OSGeo sponsors and get their
> thoughts - we certainly don't want to alienate them, and we may be
> able to help each other.
>
> Cheers,
> Peter.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 1:56 PM, Dave McIlhagga <dmcilhagga at dmsolutions.ca
> > wrote:
> Hi Peter,
>
> You're right - it is a tricky line. I suppose a better example would
> be MapGuide Enterprise which is a proprietary product, but developed
> with significant support from Autodesk. Is running an OSGeo adword
> targeting searches of AutoCAD Map or MapGuide Enterprise and
> promoting QGIS and MapServer (or even MapGuide Open Source)
> appropriate?
>
> All I'm saying is that it is a very fine line -- especially if you
> *do* want to attract corporate sponsors of the foundation who may
> have proprietary geospatial products built with open source
> components. ESRI, Google, Intergraph and Safe Software are all
> proprietary software providers who have open source components
> within their offerings. If we're truly open -- we should be striving
> to find better ways to work with these organizations just as we do
> with everyone else.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
> On 2009-10-20, at 2:24 PM, Peter Batty wrote:
>
>> Dave,
>>
>> The mission of OSGeo is "To support the development of open source
>> geospatial software, and promote its widespread use" (http://www.osgeo.org/content/foundation/about.html
>> ). By definition if someone is using an OSGeo product for
>> something, that is a lost opportunity for a closed source software
>> company to make some money.
>>
>> While ESRI and other closed source vendors may make use of some
>> open source code within their offerings, and as part of this they
>> may contribute, that is a very lightweight "partnership". ESRI is
>> not a sponsor of OSGeo. I have never heard of a situation where
>> ESRI has suggested the use of MapServer instead of ArcGIS Server
>> (for instance), nor would I expect them to ever do that. It is in
>> that context that I refer to ESRI as a "competitor" of OSGeo (they
>> and others may be both competitors and contributors depending on
>> the context).
>>
>> Nowhere did I suggest that you should only use open source
>> geospatial software (I happen to not believe that), and my
>> suggested wording was "reasons why you should consider an open
>> source web mapping platform", which is all pretty low key and
>> reasonable I thought.
>>
>> In short, if we can't say to someone who is interested in finding
>> out more about ESRI, "here's an open source alternative you might
>> want to consider", I'm not really sure how we can can carry out
>> OSGeo's mission to promote widespread use of open source, or why we
>> have this mailing list?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Peter.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 10:55 AM, Dave McIlhagga <dmcilhagga at dmsolutions.ca
>> > wrote:
>> The only issue with competing for Google search terms that include
>> commercial product brands is that many of these companies are
>> active adopters and contributors to OSGeo projects. Note that ESRI
>> is among this group. Competing with your partners for eyeballs is a
>> line you need to walk carefully.
>>
>> Also - I'm not sure that promoting the "us vs. them" of "open vs.
>> proprietary" is a very healthy approach for the organization.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>> Dave McIlhagga
>> www.mapsherpa.com
>> www.dmsolutions.ca
>>
>> On 2009-10-20, at 11:41 AM, Peter Batty wrote:
>>
>>> A couple of thoughts ... I think that if people are specifically
>>> looking for open source geospatial solutions, conference, etc they
>>> probably find OSGeo and FOSS4G pretty readily (and if not a bit of
>>> simple SEO tweaking should do the trick).
>>>
>>> For example, if you google for Open Source Geospatial then
>>> osgeo.org is the top hit. If you google for Open Source GIS then
>>> we move down to fifth, but still on the front page (we might want
>>> to mention the phrase open source GIS more or add it to the
>>> keywords in the page metadata if it's not there, if we think
>>> that's a phrase we want to be top for).
>>>
>>> If we are going to pay for adwords then I would vote they should
>>> be something that would not otherwise show up OSGeo sites - for
>>> example generic terms like "web mapping" or "spatial database", or
>>> names of commercial competitors like "ESRI".
>>>
>>> If I had a small budget to experiment with this, I would probably
>>> add a page to the OSGeo site focused on users of existing closed
>>> source GIS (or possibly ESRI specifically) - something pretty
>>> concise and punchy, like "top 5 reasons why you should consider an
>>> open source web mapping platform" (and perhaps "in conjunction
>>> with your existing GIS"?), and then pay to have the keyword ESRI
>>> return that page in the list. And we need to make sure we have the
>>> appropriate stats tracking to see how well it's working. Google
>>> Analytics integrates with their advertising stuff so that is
>>> probably the obvious choice.
>>>
>>> I'd be happy to volunteer a bit of time to help with this.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Peter.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 12:51 AM, daniele.ocu ocu <daniele.ocu at gmail.com
>>> > wrote:
>>> I worked with Google Adwords for a couple of years a while back, a
>>> lot has changed since then.
>>>
>>> A nice tool for getting new Keywords (apart from of corse Googles
>>> own tool) is:
>>>
>>> http://freekeywords.wordtracker.com/
>>>
>>> Another great sour of information on PayPerClick advertising is
>>> the Marketing Experiments Website. Really interesting to have a
>>> look at the Webclinics
>>>
>>> http://www.marketingexperiments.com/index.php?searchword=adwords&option=search&x=0&y=0
>>>
>>> Daniele
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 1:00 AM, <marketing-
>>> request at lists.osgeo.org> wrote:
>>> Send Marketing mailing list submissions to
>>> marketing at lists.osgeo.org
>>>
>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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>>>
>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
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>>>
>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>> than "Re: Contents of Marketing digest..."
>>>
>>>
>>> Today's Topics:
>>>
>>> 1. Re: AdWords? (Lorenzo Becchi)
>>> 2. Re: AdWords? (Alex Mandel)
>>> 3. Re: AdWords? (Tyler Mitchell)
>>> 4. Re: AdWords? (Lorenzo Becchi)
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 15:26:26 +1100
>>> From: Lorenzo Becchi <lorenzo at ominiverdi.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [Marketing] AdWords?
>>> To: "Tyler Mitchell (OSGeo)" <tmitchell at osgeo.org>
>>> Cc: marketing at lists.osgeo.org
>>> Message-ID:
>>> <58c3b9530910182126k5fbbeba8idef550befe4027e0 at mail.gmail.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>
>>> I have an idea:
>>> why not using it for FOSS4G 2010?
>>> :)
>>>
>>> suggestions for the keywords?
>>>
>>> lorenzo
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Tyler Mitchell (OSGeo) <
>>> tmitchell at osgeo.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Anyone familiar with using Google AdWords? I've received a $100
>>> voucher
>>> > for testing it out and would be glad for some guidance on
>>> testing it and
>>> > tracking its usage.
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Marketing mailing list
>>> > Marketing at lists.osgeo.org
>>> > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
>>> >
>>> >
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>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 2
>>> Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 21:43:51 -0700
>>> From: Alex Mandel <tech_dev at wildintellect.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [Marketing] AdWords?
>>> To: marketing at lists.osgeo.org
>>> Message-ID: <4ADBEE87.2090200 at wildintellect.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>>
>>> Frank and someone else, can't remember right now also offered to
>>> donate
>>> some adwords credits they had too. Should we do a donate your
>>> adwords
>>> campaign to build up a budget?
>>>
>>> Alex
>>>
>>> Lorenzo Becchi wrote:
>>> > I have an idea:
>>> > why not using it for FOSS4G 2010?
>>> > :)
>>> >
>>> > suggestions for the keywords?
>>> >
>>> > lorenzo
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Tyler Mitchell (OSGeo) <
>>> > tmitchell at osgeo.org> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Anyone familiar with using Google AdWords? I've received a
>>> $100 voucher
>>> >> for testing it out and would be glad for some guidance on
>>> testing it and
>>> >> tracking its usage.
>>> >>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 3
>>> Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 15:52:22 +1100
>>> From: Tyler Mitchell <tmitchell.osgeo at shaw.ca>
>>> Subject: Re: [Marketing] AdWords?
>>> To: tech at wildintellect.com
>>> Cc: marketing at lists.osgeo.org
>>> Message-ID: <cf8fe04f36e55.4adc8b36 at shaw.ca>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>
>>> Very nice ideas Alex and Lorenzo. Let's brainstorm some terms too
>>> so we're ready to use them :) I'm not all that familiar with the
>>> methods of using adwords well, but will help wherever I can.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Alex Mandel <tech_dev at wildintellect.com>
>>> Date: Monday, October 19, 2009 3:43 pm
>>> Subject: Re: [Marketing] AdWords?
>>> To: marketing at lists.osgeo.org
>>>
>>> > Frank and someone else, can't remember right now also offered to
>>> > donatesome adwords credits they had too. Should we do a donate
>>> > your adwords
>>> > campaign to build up a budget?
>>> >
>>> > Alex
>>> >
>>> > Lorenzo Becchi wrote:
>>> > > I have an idea:
>>> > > why not using it for FOSS4G 2010?
>>> > > :)
>>> > >
>>> > > suggestions for the keywords?
>>> > >
>>> > > lorenzo
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Tyler Mitchell (OSGeo) <
>>> > > tmitchell at osgeo.org> wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > >> Anyone familiar with using Google AdWords? I've
>>> > received a $100 voucher
>>> > >> for testing it out and would be glad for some guidance on
>>> > testing it and
>>> > >> tracking its usage.
>>> > >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Marketing mailing list
>>> > Marketing at lists.osgeo.org
>>> > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
>>> >
>>> -------------- next part --------------
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>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 4
>>> Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 16:17:59 +1100
>>> From: Lorenzo Becchi <lorenzo at ominiverdi.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [Marketing] AdWords?
>>> To: tmitchell at osgeo.org
>>> Cc: marketing at lists.osgeo.org, tech at wildintellect.com
>>> Message-ID:
>>> <58c3b9530910182217m10866929i6672f2987a229513 at mail.gmail.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>
>>> I've been using it for a while, few year ago, while still a web
>>> developer.
>>> It was very easy at the time and I suppose it's easier now.
>>> You create a project (don't know the exact term) and choose
>>> keywords for it.
>>> Then google specify the price per click for every keyword. You are
>>> able to
>>> decide which keyword activate and you always have the control over
>>> the money
>>> you've spent already and it's plenty of stats.
>>>
>>> lorenzo
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 3:52 PM, Tyler Mitchell <tmitchell.osgeo at shaw.ca
>>> >wrote:
>>>
>>> > Very nice ideas Alex and Lorenzo. Let's brainstorm some terms
>>> too so we're
>>> > ready to use them :) I'm not all that familiar with the methods
>>> of using
>>> > adwords well, but will help wherever I can.
>>> >
>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>> > From: Alex Mandel <tech_dev at wildintellect.com>
>>> > Date: Monday, October 19, 2009 3:43 pm
>>> > Subject: Re: [Marketing] AdWords?
>>> > To: marketing at lists.osgeo.org
>>> >
>>> > > Frank and someone else, can't remember right now also offered to
>>> > > donatesome adwords credits they had too. Should we do a donate
>>> > > your adwords
>>> > > campaign to build up a budget?
>>> > >
>>> > > Alex
>>> > >
>>> > > Lorenzo Becchi wrote:
>>> > > > I have an idea:
>>> > > > why not using it for FOSS4G 2010?
>>> > > > :)
>>> > > >
>>> > > > suggestions for the keywords?
>>> > > >
>>> > > > lorenzo
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > > On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Tyler Mitchell (OSGeo) <
>>> > > > tmitchell at osgeo.org> wrote:
>>> > > >
>>> > > >> Anyone familiar with using Google AdWords? I've
>>> > > received a $100 voucher
>>> > > >> for testing it out and would be glad for some guidance on
>>> > > testing it and
>>> > > >> tracking its usage.
>>> > > >>
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > _______________________________________________
>>> > > Marketing mailing list
>>> > > Marketing at lists.osgeo.org
>>> > > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Marketing mailing list
>>> > Marketing at lists.osgeo.org
>>> > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
>>> >
>>> >
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>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Marketing mailing list
>>> Marketing at lists.osgeo.org
>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
>>>
>>>
>>> End of Marketing Digest, Vol 25, Issue 4
>>> ****************************************
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Marketing mailing list
>>> Marketing at lists.osgeo.org
>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Peter Batty - President, Spatial Networking
>>> W: +1 303 339 0957 M: +1 720 346 3954
>>> Blog: http://geothought.blogspot.com
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Marketing mailing list
>>> Marketing at lists.osgeo.org
>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Peter Batty - President, Spatial Networking
>> W: +1 303 339 0957 M: +1 720 346 3954
>> Blog: http://geothought.blogspot.com
>
>
>
>
> --
> Peter Batty - President, Spatial Networking
> W: +1 303 339 0957 M: +1 720 346 3954
> Blog: http://geothought.blogspot.com
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