[Oceania-Board] 2024-2025 budget
John Bryant
johnwbryant at gmail.com
Tue Apr 23 19:16:06 PDT 2024
I think it's a good idea to model a pessimistic scenario, but the $4k
surplus isn't that pessimistic - it's based on a conference surplus that's
more than double Auckland's surplus.
A moderately pessimistic scenario would have to contain the possibility the
2024 conference surplus is similar to 2023, ie ~13k. I'm optimistic too,
but given that Auckland is a much bigger market than Hobart, and cost of
living pressures are making people very cautious about discretionary
spending, I think we have to consider it within the realm of possibility.
I've done a moderately pessimistic "scenario 2" in the simplified sheet
that includes this contingency. It puts the TGP at $15k, reduces other
community investment (grants, sponsorship, WGs) by $5k, and it puts us at a
loss of ~$12k. Hopefully very unlikely, but at this stage we just don't
know - our most recent experience indicates that it's possible.
I don't think we're in a financial position right now to allocate more than
we've ever spent on TGP, at a point when we're at maximum uncertainty about
conference income. Our past experience has shown us we can approach it
progressively - allocate a modest amount now, and increase it when we
become more confident we have the surplus to support it.
I guess what I'm saying is that I think we should start small, and grow it
when we hit sponsorship and registration targets, otherwise we run the risk
we 1) make a large loss again next year and/or 2) have to cut
other community investments.
Cheers
John
On Wed, 24 Apr 2024 at 07:24, Alex Leith <alexgleith at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi John
>
> I think targeting a $4 k surplus is ok in the pessimistic scenario.
>
> I really hope that we can deliver something like a $60 k surplus from the
> conference, like we did in Melbourne and Wellington. I'm always fairly
> optimistic, but I have had a lot of people say that they're excited to come
> to Hobart, and we can handle a pretty big crowd... so maybe we'll exceed
> expectations.
>
> I'm ok with starting the budget with a modest TGP allocation of $15 k
> including the OSGeo cash and increasing if we can.
>
> Cheers,
>
> On Tue, 23 Apr 2024 at 19:32, John Bryant <johnwbryant at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Thanks Elisa, that's really helpful input. I had a rough idea of what had
>> happened, but I didn't know we hadn't actually planned to do PGRSC as part
>> of the program. So this year, should we proactively include other events in
>> our TGP budget?
>>
>> Let me ask everyone... what if we zoom out for a moment, simplify, and
>> think of the budget as having 3 major components:
>>
>> - *Conference surplus*: Virtually all of our income is derived from
>> this one source, and needs to pay for everything else, so this is crucial;
>> but it's handled in detail by another budget - we can provide oversight
>> using that budget.
>> - *Operational expenses*: These are relatively predictable and fixed;
>> we can fiddle with them a bit, but it looks like they'll be somewhere in
>> the range of $6000-10000.
>> - *Community Investment expenses*: This is where we have the most
>> discretion. For the current financial year we're on target to spend around
>> $20k.
>>
>> *So.... what if we figure out the total amount we can afford to spend in
>> the Community Investment category, and then allocate that into TGP, Grants,
>> Sponsorship, and Committees/WGs?* The benefit of this approach is 1) we
>> spend what we can afford and 2) we consider the relative impact where
>> we invest. We have a finite amount of money - if we spend $10k on X, we
>> can't spend it on Y or Z, even if Y or Z might actually have a bigger
>> impact.
>>
>> It forces us to contend with the question: If our total community
>> investment spend is $25k, and we spend $15k on the TGP, do we cut back on
>> other grants and sponsorship?
>>
>> I've added a "simple" version to this tab of the budget sheet
>> <https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gRWZXt1bZqTqNMf5sr7Ff5dH4Sp_Nabe4QoZHPPPpmw/edit#gid=1487652216>
>> to make it a little easier to reason with, and I've adjusted a couple of
>> numbers based on Alex's suggestions. Even with ops costs cut right back,
>> and "only" 10k allocated to TGP, it leaves us with a relatively modest
>> surplus of $4300. Increase the TGP to 15k and we're in the red - would need
>> to cut it from somewhere else (or ensure we have a bigger conference
>> surplus).
>>
>> John
>>
>> On Tue, 23 Apr 2024 at 15:47, eli <elipuccioni at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Actually I have an input re:TGP:
>>> The higher budget we had for Auckland and (hopefully) we will have for
>>> Hobart is aiming to enable more participation from the pacific. We have
>>> noticed that smaller grants cut the majority of the pacific applicants off,
>>> due to the cost of traveling. So I’m in full support of this higher
>>> spending on TGP (no surprises here!).
>>> Moreover, because of the problems with NZ immigration last year, we
>>> “moved” people from Auckland to Suva, so PGRSC grantees were actually
>>> FOSS4G winners, we didn’t have a separate budget and program for that
>>> conference. That said, one of my personal goals would be extending the TGP
>>> to relevant conferences in the Pacific, especially the PGRSC, but I
>>> understand that might not be possible to implement every year and will
>>> depend on our finances.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Elisa
>>>
>>> Potrebbe andar peggio...potrebbe piovere!
>>>
>>>
>>> Il giorno mar 23 apr 2024 alle 19:36 eli <elipuccioni at gmail.com> ha
>>> scritto:
>>>
>>>> Thanks both Alex and John for this and support of I’m not adding much
>>>> input in this. As Jonah said, I am too learning from your expertise and
>>>> feel I still have a bit of learning to do before contributing more actively!
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Elisa
>>>>
>>>> Potrebbe andar peggio...potrebbe piovere!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Il giorno mar 23 apr 2024 alle 18:40 John Bryant via Oceania-Board <
>>>> oceania-board at lists.osgeo.org> ha scritto:
>>>>
>>>>> Thanks Alex, I've made a few modifications to the sheet based on your
>>>>> suggestions:
>>>>>
>>>>> - split event income & expenses (I used the Hobart budget middle
>>>>> scenario for these amounts, ex GST)
>>>>> - split the single conference line into separate lines for each
>>>>> event
>>>>> - put OSGeo TGP grant into 2024 projected rather than 2025 budgeted
>>>>>
>>>>> Having the conference items separated out like that is a bit more
>>>>> complex, but I like the extra detail. The big thing that jumps out at me,
>>>>> though, is the need to refine the conference estimates as early as we can.
>>>>>
>>>>> Re: TGP, I'm certainly open to the suggestion of increasing it (if we
>>>>> have good reason), I think it's an important part of what we do.
>>>>>
>>>>> It would be great to have more insight into how much money we actually
>>>>> need, and what we're aiming for. By my calculations, this is what we've
>>>>> spent over the years:
>>>>>
>>>>> - Melbourne 2018: $4650 for 7 people
>>>>> - Wellington 2019: $9000 for 14 people
>>>>> - Auckland 2023: $6400 for 5 people
>>>>> - PGRSC 2023: $5100 for 3 people
>>>>>
>>>>> Would the Hobart TGP be significantly different from Auckland? Should
>>>>> we include other events this year (eg PGRSC) in our budget?
>>>>>
>>>>> One other thought - in 2018 and 2019, we started off with a modest
>>>>> budget for the TGP and increased it as we became more confident we had the
>>>>> funds. Could this approach work for us this year as well?
>>>>>
>>>>> By the way, everyone, Alex and I are engaging in this, but he's right,
>>>>> all board members should be thinking about our finances and providing their
>>>>> input (please).
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers
>>>>> John
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 22 Apr 2024 at 18:32, Alex Leith <alexgleith at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Ok, so here's the notes from the march minutes
>>>>>> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LMz-7ENIqbuE-QGhqB6ryO9bDRYFS0E4bxZMgjJQb2w/edit>
>>>>>> :
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Intent to allocate 10k to TGP (pending FY24/25 budget
>>>>>> discussion and approval)
>>>>>> - Planning to request USD5k from OSGeo (Dorothy will write it up)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's a little ambiguous, but I'd like to request that we allocate $10
>>>>>> k from the OO budget plus the $5 k (AUD) from OSGeo.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We've kicked off the TGP early, and I'm hoping we can spend our
>>>>>> allocation and bring as many people as we can along to the event in Hobart,
>>>>>> so if we're as successful as we have been in past years, I'd love to
>>>>>> increase the amount that's available too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If we have a starting point of $15 k, that will set Dorothy up nicely
>>>>>> to start planning.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, 22 Apr 2024 at 19:44, John Bryant <johnwbryant at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thinking a bit more about TGP...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I suggest this:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - we allocate $10k to TGP (including OSGeo $5000)
>>>>>>> - if the OSGeo request is declined, we reconsider our allocation
>>>>>>> - if/when conference sponsors provide extra TGP funds, we
>>>>>>> increase the amount accordingly
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In total, this would be roughly in line with how much we spent last
>>>>>>> year, and should be enough for the 10 TGP registrations allocated in the
>>>>>>> conference budget, potentially with money left over for other events.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, 22 Apr 2024 at 15:28, John Bryant <johnwbryant at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I wasn't at the March meeting, but it sounded like the outcome was
>>>>>>>> that the discussion would happen later when we talked about the budget. I
>>>>>>>> don't think we've had any other discussions about it?
>>>>>>>> So I reckon this is the budget discussion where we should make that
>>>>>>>> decision.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> These seem like relevant points:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - the Hobart conf budget accounts for 10 TGP regos
>>>>>>>> - this year we spent ~12k including the OSGeo $5k
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I haven't seen an accounting of last year's TGP (number and amount
>>>>>>>> of grants) but it would be useful, if anyone knows about it?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, 22 Apr 2024 at 15:12, Alex Leith <alexgleith at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Oh, I thought we agreed on $20 k like last year?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Apologies if I remembered wrong.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Was the $10 k you thought we agreed including the OSGeo money?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *Alex Leith*
>>>>>>>>> m: +61 419 189 050
>>>>>>>>> https://auspatious.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 22 Apr 2024 at 5:11 PM, John Bryant <johnwbryant at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks everyone, great comments so far.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Alex, one question, you said "We have earmarked $20 k for the TGP
>>>>>>>>>> for the Hobart conference"... all I'm aware of is a discussion at the March
>>>>>>>>>> board meeting where the outcome was: "Intent to allocate 10k to TGP
>>>>>>>>>> (pending FY24/25 budget discussion and approval)"
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Where does the $20k figure come from?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 22 Apr 2024 at 09:04, Jonah Sullivan <
>>>>>>>>>> jonahsullivan79 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I'm really glad to see Alex and John engaging on the very
>>>>>>>>>>> important topic of financial probity. I probably shouldn't have raised my
>>>>>>>>>>> hand as treasurer, considering my lack of experience and annoying work
>>>>>>>>>>> commitments, but I'm glad to be more involved in the process - I'm learning
>>>>>>>>>>> a lot already.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 22 Apr 2024, 08:53 Alex Leith via Oceania-Board, <
>>>>>>>>>>> oceania-board at lists.osgeo.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi John
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> For this FY, here's some comments:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> - I requested travel grant funding from OSGeo a week ago
>>>>>>>>>>>> for $3,500 USD. That should be received this FY, I expect.
>>>>>>>>>>>> - The other hard to forecast difference is sponsorship and
>>>>>>>>>>>> ticket sales for the conference, which should start happening this FY. I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>> hoping to start reaching out to potential sponsors, and some organisations
>>>>>>>>>>>> like spending money in the current FY. I expect to have some money flowing
>>>>>>>>>>>> in soon.
>>>>>>>>>>>> - I want to note that since our term deposits matured in
>>>>>>>>>>>> December, and we received ~$1,800, we haven't now got any cash earning
>>>>>>>>>>>> interest. I think it would be a good idea to put money away in a 12 month
>>>>>>>>>>>> term deposit, as we can now achieve 4.75% interest, so on $50 k, that's
>>>>>>>>>>>> over $2,000 of free money!
>>>>>>>>>>>> - We perhaps need a budget line for conference 2024, since
>>>>>>>>>>>> we have paid the deposit for the venue at $14 k.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> For the 2025 budget:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> - The $25 k surplus is quite conservative. I think we'll do
>>>>>>>>>>>> better than that for the conference, but it's nice to be conservative in
>>>>>>>>>>>> budgeting!
>>>>>>>>>>>> - We have earmarked $20 k for the TGP for the Hobart
>>>>>>>>>>>> conference. With $5 k coming from OSGeo, that leaves a worst case of $15 k
>>>>>>>>>>>> from OO. (This will be topped up by the conference with a portion of
>>>>>>>>>>>> sponsorship going to TGP.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> And just a note that we should be doing budgeting with the
>>>>>>>>>>>> balance sheet in mind too. We currently have $60 k in the bank, which is
>>>>>>>>>>>> unusually low, mostly because we have started paying expenses for the 2024
>>>>>>>>>>>> conference, but haven't got any income yet.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Now it's a fairly minor thing, but I would prefer to have a
>>>>>>>>>>>> separate line for conference income and conference expenses. We sometimes
>>>>>>>>>>>> have smaller regional events, and it's good to see the difference in
>>>>>>>>>>>> expense/income per event.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> And one of those boring reminders too that as Board Directors,
>>>>>>>>>>>> we need to remember that we are all individually accountable for the
>>>>>>>>>>>> financial health of the organisation, we can't delegate that responsibility
>>>>>>>>>>>> to others, so please engage with this important work and make sure you
>>>>>>>>>>>> understand it!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Alex
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> [image: image.png]
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 21 Apr 2024 at 12:58, John Bryant via Oceania-Board <
>>>>>>>>>>>> oceania-board at lists.osgeo.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi board,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The 2024-2025 financial year (FY25) begins on 1 July.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It would be good to move the FY25 budget forward, ideally we
>>>>>>>>>>>>> can approve it in May but I'm sure there will be some discussion required.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps we can discuss in this thread over the next couple of weeks and put
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it on the agenda for further discussion at the May board meeting?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> My ambition with this is to:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> - come up with a realistic set of numbers we can use to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> guide spending decisions in the upcoming financial year
>>>>>>>>>>>>> - set targets for income, community investment, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ultimately, a surplus to help keep us solvent
>>>>>>>>>>>>> - provide clear and visible financial targets and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> priorities to the community
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can you please review the attached PDF and/or the Google Sheet
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gRWZXt1bZqTqNMf5sr7Ff5dH4Sp_Nabe4QoZHPPPpmw/edit#gid=61568483>?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've listed several questions that I hope will help us move it forward.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your comments and questions please!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 29 Mar 2024 at 16:15, John Bryant <
>>>>>>>>>>>>> johnwbryant at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We discussed at the February board meeting that we should get
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> moving on a budget for next year. I want to kick off a discussion towards
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hopefully having a first draft within the next few weeks, and a final draft
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for approval in May.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have a sheet here
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gRWZXt1bZqTqNMf5sr7Ff5dH4Sp_Nabe4QoZHPPPpmw/edit#gid=0> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the current year projected and actual amounts for context.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For now, do you have any specific items on your wish list for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> next year?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have a few suggestions and questions:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - *Distinct "Operational" & "Community Investment"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> expense categories*. By doing this, we make sure we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> allocate enough to keep the lights on, and then we have better sight of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what we can afford to invest in community programs.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - *Separate grants and sponsorship*. They're accounted
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for separately in Xero and I think it caused some confusion this year when
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we overspent on the combined item. We ultimately increased the budget
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> amount but for a time the Grants committee was unsure if they should hit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pause. By separating these, I think we add clarity.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - *Remove "Special Interest Groups"?* We don't really
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have any SIGs (OSM SIG has never been active, QGIS SIG wound up in June
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2022). I still think we should make these kinds of investments in OSM and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> QGIS community groups of course, but maybe we do it under sponsorship and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grants line items?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - *TGP:* At the last board meeting there was talk of ~10k
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for the Travel Grant Program, is this the right amount? It sounds like the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hobart conference may have about $5000 to add to this, depending on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sponsorship (Alex correct me if I've got this wrong!).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also I think we'll need to make a projection on the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conference surplus, perhaps this is an item for discussion at the next
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> board meeting on the 3rd.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your thoughts?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oceania-Board mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oceania-Board at lists.osgeo.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/oceania-board
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> *Alex Leith*
>>>>>>>>>>>> m: +61 419 189 050
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://auspatious.com
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> Oceania-Board mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> Oceania-Board at lists.osgeo.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/oceania-board
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> *Alex Leith*
>>>>>> m: +61 419 189 050
>>>>>> https://auspatious.com
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Oceania-Board mailing list
>>>>> Oceania-Board at lists.osgeo.org
>>>>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/oceania-board
>>>>>
>>>>
>
> --
> *Alex Leith*
> m: +61 419 189 050
> https://auspatious.com
>
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