[Oceania-Board] 2024-2025 budget

Sat May 4 02:53:14 PDT 2024

Hi Alex,

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you all.

It's unfortunate that we won't be receiving funding from TGP this year. We'll need to cover expenses ourselves for now. Considering this, we may need to reassess our budget and possibly reduce the number of TGP grants we can offer this year?

Eli, Let me know your thoughts on this.

Best regards,
Dorothy

Dorothy D.Pion
Senior Cartographer
Mineral Resources Authority | PO Box 1906, Port Moresby 121, Papua New Guinea | P: (675) 2072250 | F: | E: ddpion at mra.gov.pg<mailto:ddpion at mra.gov.pg>  | W: www.mra.gov.pg<https://www.mra.gov.pg>

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________________________________
From: Oceania-Board <oceania-board-bounces at lists.osgeo.org> on behalf of Alex Leith via Oceania-Board <oceania-board at lists.osgeo.org>
Sent: Saturday, May 4, 2024 9:01 AM
To: John Bryant <johnwbryant at gmail.com>
Cc: OSGeo Oceania Board <oceania-board at lists.osgeo.org>
Subject: Re: [Oceania-Board] 2024-2025 budget

HEre's what Angelos said:

Unfortunately the TGP budget is out for this year :(
The financial year starts Jan 1st.

Amending the budget is a possibility if we get funding during the year.

So, I guess we won't get cash from them this time, unfortunately.

On Thu, 2 May 2024 at 13:04, Alex Leith <alexgleith at gmail.com<mailto:alexgleith at gmail.com>> wrote:
Yeah, ok. I guess we'll need to cover it ourselves then... will need to re-assess.

I'll let you all know if I hear anything different from Angelos.

On Thu, 2 May 2024 at 08:01, John Bryant <johnwbryant at gmail.com<mailto:johnwbryant at gmail.com>> wrote:
I'm not 100% sure but I think it's Apr-Mar.

This was approved in February<https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Board_Meeting_2024-02-06#OSGeo_Budget_2024> (amounts in USD):

 *   Travel Grant Program: 10k $ to be approved. The direction is to use 7k for global FOSS4G and 3k for local events.

So our request was for their entire local event TGP budget, probably we're asking for far too much.

Cheers
John

On Thu, 2 May 2024 at 05:54, Alex Leith <alexgleith at gmail.com<mailto:alexgleith at gmail.com>> wrote:
What is their financial year?

I'll ask Angelos if we can request again for the next FY.

On Thu, 2 May 2024 at 07:18, eli via Oceania-Board <oceania-board at lists.osgeo.org<mailto:oceania-board at lists.osgeo.org>> wrote:
oh that's not nice. I suppose the lesson is learned, we need to apply for the TGP as soon as OSGeo plan their budget next time.

Il giorno gio 2 mag 2024 alle ore 09:15 John Bryant via Oceania-Board <oceania-board at lists.osgeo.org<mailto:oceania-board at lists.osgeo.org>> ha scritto:
Hi all, FYI:

Unfortunately our request for TGP funding from OSGeo was not approved, see meeting minutes<https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Board_Meeting_2024-04-30#FOSS4G_SotM_Oceania_TGP_Request>. The OSGeo TGP budget has already been spent for this year.

John

On Wed, 24 Apr 2024 at 10:16, John Bryant <johnwbryant at gmail.com<mailto:johnwbryant at gmail.com>> wrote:
I think it's a good idea to model a pessimistic scenario, but the $4k surplus isn't that pessimistic - it's based on a conference surplus that's more than double Auckland's surplus.

A moderately pessimistic scenario would have to contain the possibility the 2024 conference surplus is similar to 2023, ie ~13k. I'm optimistic too, but given that Auckland is a much bigger market than Hobart, and cost of living pressures are making people very cautious about discretionary spending, I think we have to consider it within the realm of possibility.

I've done a moderately pessimistic "scenario 2" in the simplified sheet that includes this contingency. It puts the TGP at $15k, reduces other community investment (grants, sponsorship, WGs) by $5k, and it puts us at a loss of ~$12k. Hopefully very unlikely, but at this stage we just don't know - our most recent experience indicates that it's possible.

I don't think we're in a financial position right now to allocate more than we've ever spent on TGP, at a point when we're at maximum uncertainty about conference income. Our past experience has shown us we can approach it progressively - allocate a modest amount now, and increase it when we become more confident we have the surplus to support it.

I guess what I'm saying is that I think we should start small, and grow it when we hit sponsorship and registration targets, otherwise we run the risk we 1) make a large loss again next year and/or 2) have to cut other community investments.

Cheers
John

On Wed, 24 Apr 2024 at 07:24, Alex Leith <alexgleith at gmail.com<mailto:alexgleith at gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi John

I think targeting a $4 k surplus is ok in the pessimistic scenario.

I really hope that we can deliver something like a $60 k surplus from the conference, like we did in Melbourne and Wellington. I'm always fairly optimistic, but I have had a lot of people say that they're excited to come to Hobart, and we can handle a pretty big crowd... so maybe we'll exceed expectations.

I'm ok with starting the budget with a modest TGP allocation of $15 k including the OSGeo cash and increasing if we can.

Cheers,

On Tue, 23 Apr 2024 at 19:32, John Bryant <johnwbryant at gmail.com<mailto:johnwbryant at gmail.com>> wrote:
Thanks Elisa, that's really helpful input. I had a rough idea of what had happened, but I didn't know we hadn't actually planned to do PGRSC as part of the program. So this year, should we proactively include other events in our TGP budget?

Let me ask everyone... what if we zoom out for a moment, simplify, and think of the budget as having 3 major components:

 *   Conference surplus: Virtually all of our income is derived from this one source, and needs to pay for everything else, so this is crucial; but it's handled in detail by another budget - we can provide oversight using that budget.
 *   Operational expenses: These are relatively predictable and fixed; we can fiddle with them a bit, but it looks like they'll be somewhere in the range of $6000-10000.
 *   Community Investment expenses: This is where we have the most discretion. For the current financial year we're on target to spend around $20k.

So.... what if we figure out the total amount we can afford to spend in the Community Investment category, and then allocate that into TGP, Grants, Sponsorship, and Committees/WGs? The benefit of this approach is 1) we spend what we can afford and 2) we consider the relative impact where we invest. We have a finite amount of money - if we spend $10k on X, we can't spend it on Y or Z, even if Y or Z might actually have a bigger impact.

It forces us to contend with the question: If our total community investment spend is $25k, and we spend $15k on the TGP, do we cut back on other grants and sponsorship?

I've added a "simple" version to this tab of the budget sheet<https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gRWZXt1bZqTqNMf5sr7Ff5dH4Sp_Nabe4QoZHPPPpmw/edit#gid=1487652216> to make it a little easier to reason with, and I've adjusted a couple of numbers based on Alex's suggestions. Even with ops costs cut right back, and "only" 10k allocated to TGP, it leaves us with a relatively modest surplus of $4300. Increase the TGP to 15k and we're in the red - would need to cut it from somewhere else (or ensure we have a bigger conference surplus).

John

On Tue, 23 Apr 2024 at 15:47, eli <elipuccioni at gmail.com<mailto:elipuccioni at gmail.com>> wrote:
Actually I have an input re:TGP:
The higher budget we had for Auckland and (hopefully) we will have for Hobart is aiming to enable more participation from the pacific. We have noticed that smaller grants cut the majority of the pacific applicants off, due to the cost of traveling. So I’m in full support of this higher spending on TGP (no surprises here!).
Moreover, because of the problems with NZ immigration last year, we “moved” people from Auckland to Suva, so PGRSC grantees were actually FOSS4G winners, we didn’t have a separate budget and program for that conference. That said, one of my personal goals would be extending the TGP to relevant conferences in the Pacific, especially the PGRSC, but I understand that might not be possible to implement every year and will depend on our finances.

Cheers,
Elisa

Potrebbe andar peggio...potrebbe piovere!

Il giorno mar 23 apr 2024 alle 19:36 eli <elipuccioni at gmail.com<mailto:elipuccioni at gmail.com>> ha scritto:
Thanks both Alex and John for this and support of I’m not adding much input in this. As Jonah said, I am too learning from your expertise and feel I still have a bit of learning to do before contributing more actively!

Cheers,
Elisa

Potrebbe andar peggio...potrebbe piovere!

Il giorno mar 23 apr 2024 alle 18:40 John Bryant via Oceania-Board <oceania-board at lists.osgeo.org<mailto:oceania-board at lists.osgeo.org>> ha scritto:
Thanks Alex, I've made a few modifications to the sheet based on your suggestions:

 *   split event income & expenses (I used the Hobart budget middle scenario for these amounts, ex GST)
 *   split the single conference line into separate lines for each event
 *   put OSGeo TGP grant into 2024 projected rather than 2025 budgeted

Having the conference items separated out like that is a bit more complex, but I like the extra detail. The big thing that jumps out at me, though, is the need to refine the conference estimates as early as we can.

Re: TGP, I'm certainly open to the suggestion of increasing it (if we have good reason), I think it's an important part of what we do.

It would be great to have more insight into how much money we actually need, and what we're aiming for. By my calculations, this is what we've spent over the years:

 *   Melbourne 2018: $4650 for 7 people
 *   Wellington 2019: $9000 for 14 people
 *   Auckland 2023: $6400 for 5 people
 *   PGRSC 2023: $5100 for 3 people

Would the Hobart TGP be significantly different from Auckland? Should we include other events this year (eg PGRSC) in our budget?

One other thought - in 2018 and 2019, we started off with a modest budget for the TGP and increased it as we became more confident we had the funds. Could this approach work for us this year as well?

By the way, everyone, Alex and I are engaging in this, but he's right, all board members should be thinking about our finances and providing their input (please).

Cheers
John

On Mon, 22 Apr 2024 at 18:32, Alex Leith <alexgleith at gmail.com<mailto:alexgleith at gmail.com>> wrote:
Ok, so here's the notes from the march minutes<https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LMz-7ENIqbuE-QGhqB6ryO9bDRYFS0E4bxZMgjJQb2w/edit>:

 *   Intent to allocate 10k to TGP (pending FY24/25 budget discussion and approval)
 *   Planning to request USD5k from OSGeo (Dorothy will write it up)

It's a little ambiguous, but I'd like to request that we allocate $10 k from the OO budget plus the $5 k (AUD) from OSGeo.

We've kicked off the TGP early, and I'm hoping we can spend our allocation and bring as many people as we can along to the event in Hobart, so if we're as successful as we have been in past years, I'd love to increase the amount that's available too.

If we have a starting point of $15 k, that will set Dorothy up nicely to start planning.

On Mon, 22 Apr 2024 at 19:44, John Bryant <johnwbryant at gmail.com<mailto:johnwbryant at gmail.com>> wrote:
Thinking a bit more about TGP...

I suggest this:

 *   we allocate $10k to TGP (including OSGeo $5000)
 *   if the OSGeo request is declined, we reconsider our allocation
 *   if/when conference sponsors provide extra TGP funds, we increase the amount accordingly

In total, this would be roughly in line with how much we spent last year, and should be enough for the 10 TGP registrations allocated in the conference budget, potentially with money left over for other events.

Cheers
John

On Mon, 22 Apr 2024 at 15:28, John Bryant <johnwbryant at gmail.com<mailto:johnwbryant at gmail.com>> wrote:
I wasn't at the March meeting, but it sounded like the outcome was that the discussion would happen later when we talked about the budget. I don't think we've had any other discussions about it?
So I reckon this is the budget discussion where we should make that decision.

These seem like relevant points:

 *   the Hobart conf budget accounts for 10 TGP regos
 *   this year we spent ~12k including the OSGeo $5k

I haven't seen an accounting of last year's TGP (number and amount of grants) but it would be useful, if anyone knows about it?

Cheers
John

On Mon, 22 Apr 2024 at 15:12, Alex Leith <alexgleith at gmail.com<mailto:alexgleith at gmail.com>> wrote:
Oh, I thought we agreed on $20 k like last year?

Apologies if I remembered wrong.

Was the $10 k you thought we agreed including the OSGeo money?

Alex Leith
m: +61 419 189 050
https://auspatious.com

On Mon, 22 Apr 2024 at 5:11 PM, John Bryant <johnwbryant at gmail.com<mailto:johnwbryant at gmail.com>> wrote:
Thanks everyone, great comments so far.

Alex, one question, you said "We have earmarked $20 k for the TGP for the Hobart conference"... all I'm aware of is a discussion at the March board meeting where the outcome was: "Intent to allocate 10k to TGP (pending FY24/25 budget discussion and approval)"

Where does the $20k figure come from?

Cheers
John

On Mon, 22 Apr 2024 at 09:04, Jonah Sullivan <jonahsullivan79 at gmail.com<mailto:jonahsullivan79 at gmail.com>> wrote:
I'm really glad to see Alex and John engaging on the very important topic of financial probity. I probably shouldn't have raised my hand as treasurer, considering my lack of experience and annoying work commitments, but I'm glad to be more involved in the process - I'm learning a lot already.

On Mon, 22 Apr 2024, 08:53 Alex Leith via Oceania-Board, <oceania-board at lists.osgeo.org<mailto:oceania-board at lists.osgeo.org>> wrote:
Hi John

For this FY, here's some comments:

 *   I requested travel grant funding from OSGeo a week ago for $3,500 USD. That should be received this FY, I expect.
 *   The other hard to forecast difference is sponsorship and ticket sales for the conference, which should start happening this FY. I'm hoping to start reaching out to potential sponsors, and some organisations like spending money in the current FY. I expect to have some money flowing in soon.
 *   I want to note that since our term deposits matured in December, and we received ~$1,800, we haven't now got any cash earning interest. I think it would be a good idea to put money away in a 12 month term deposit, as we can now achieve 4.75% interest, so on $50 k, that's over $2,000 of free money!
 *   We perhaps need a budget line for conference 2024, since we have paid the deposit for the venue at $14 k.

For the 2025 budget:

 *   The $25 k surplus is quite conservative. I think we'll do better than that for the conference, but it's nice to be conservative in budgeting!
 *   We have earmarked $20 k for the TGP for the Hobart conference. With $5 k coming from OSGeo, that leaves a worst case of $15 k from OO. (This will be topped up by the conference with a portion of sponsorship going to TGP.)

And just a note that we should be doing budgeting with the balance sheet in mind too. We currently have $60 k in the bank, which is unusually low, mostly because we have started paying expenses for the 2024 conference, but haven't got any income yet.

Now it's a fairly minor thing, but I would prefer to have a separate line for conference income and conference expenses. We sometimes have smaller regional events, and it's good to see the difference in expense/income per event.

And one of those boring reminders too that as Board Directors, we need to remember that we are all individually accountable for the financial health of the organisation, we can't delegate that responsibility to others, so please engage with this important work and make sure you understand it!

Cheers,

Alex

[cid:ii_lva8qhzh1]

Cheers,

On Sun, 21 Apr 2024 at 12:58, John Bryant via Oceania-Board <oceania-board at lists.osgeo.org<mailto:oceania-board at lists.osgeo.org>> wrote:
Hi board,

The 2024-2025 financial year (FY25) begins on 1 July.

It would be good to move the FY25 budget forward, ideally we can approve it in May but I'm sure there will be some discussion required. Perhaps we can discuss in this thread over the next couple of weeks and put it on the agenda for further discussion at the May board meeting?

My ambition with this is to:

 *   come up with a realistic set of numbers we can use to guide spending decisions in the upcoming financial year
 *   set targets for income, community investment, and ultimately, a surplus to help keep us solvent
 *   provide clear and visible financial targets and priorities to the community

Can you please review the attached PDF and/or the Google Sheet<https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gRWZXt1bZqTqNMf5sr7Ff5dH4Sp_Nabe4QoZHPPPpmw/edit#gid=61568483>? I've listed several questions that I hope will help us move it forward.

Your comments and questions please!

Thanks
John

On Fri, 29 Mar 2024 at 16:15, John Bryant <johnwbryant at gmail.com<mailto:johnwbryant at gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi all,

We discussed at the February board meeting that we should get moving on a budget for next year. I want to kick off a discussion towards hopefully having a first draft within the next few weeks, and a final draft for approval in May.

I have a sheet here<https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gRWZXt1bZqTqNMf5sr7Ff5dH4Sp_Nabe4QoZHPPPpmw/edit#gid=0> with the current year projected and actual amounts for context.

For now, do you have any specific items on your wish list for next year?

I have a few suggestions and questions:

 *   Distinct "Operational" & "Community Investment" expense categories. By doing this, we make sure we allocate enough to keep the lights on, and then we have better sight of what we can afford to invest in community programs.
 *   Separate grants and sponsorship. They're accounted for separately in Xero and I think it caused some confusion this year when we overspent on the combined item. We ultimately increased the budget amount but for a time the Grants committee was unsure if they should hit pause. By separating these, I think we add clarity.
 *   Remove "Special Interest Groups"? We don't really have any SIGs (OSM SIG has never been active, QGIS SIG wound up in June 2022). I still think we should make these kinds of investments in OSM and QGIS community groups of course, but maybe we do it under sponsorship and grants line items?
 *   TGP: At the last board meeting there was talk of ~10k for the Travel Grant Program, is this the right amount? It sounds like the Hobart conference may have about $5000 to add to this, depending on sponsorship (Alex correct me if I've got this wrong!).

Also I think we'll need to make a projection on the conference surplus, perhaps this is an item for discussion at the next board meeting on the 3rd.

Your thoughts?

Cheers
John

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Potrebbe andar peggio...potrebbe piovere!
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m: +61 419 189 050
https://auspatious.com

--
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m: +61 419 189 050
https://auspatious.com

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m: +61 419 189 050
https://auspatious.com
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