[OSGeo Oceania] [Aus-NZ-QGIS-group] Community consultation: OO Org QGIS Special Interest Group Charter

Tue Dec 22 17:01:02 PST 2020

Hey all can we set up a meeting?
Do we want to do it after Xmas and before new year or in new year - i am
back on deck on 10th Jan

On Mon, Dec 21, 2020 at 6:42 PM Andrew Jeffrey <aljeffrey83 at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi John,
>
> Thanks for the comments.
>
> I see what you mean about appearing to be the "go-to" group without
> engagement from the whole community.
>
> The SIG does not necessarily have to be the QGIS user group for the whole
> Oceania region, it is expressed that way in the charter but if it doesn't
> work then it doesn't need to stay that way. The QGIS user groups have a
> model where the user group can be regional or national -
> https://www.qgis.org/en/site/forusers/usergroups.html - The UK, for
> example, has three representing different parts of the UK. There is no
> reason why Oceania couldn't have multiple independent QGIS user groups like
> Oceania (Australia), Oceania (Aotearoa), Oceania (Fiji) etc. I do, however,
> see all of these user groups within Oceania having the same problem that
> the Australian QGIS group experienced regarding the running of our own
> events, as described before the OO org and SIG concept provide a framework
> to address that.
>
> So, I don't see the SIG standing in the way of local initiatives, but we
> do have responsibility to engage with the Oceania community and let them
> know that this SIG and its resources are not exclusive to the Australian
> QGIS users.
>
> Also, I was going to message you this and ask for advice but it's probably
> best out in the open for other people to throw around suggestions. I have
> struggled with how to best interact with parts/regions of the OO community.
> I've included the Australian QGIS list along the way because it is the only
> user group in Oceania registered on the QGIS site and the OO mailing list
> because we want to form a SIG within that community. However, if there are
> other user groups out there and people know of them i'd appreciate it if
> you could put me in touch.
>
> My preference at the moment with the engagement we have is to push on as
> defined in the charter. The charter is able to be altered in the future, so
> if something just doesn't work or turns out to inadvertently be prohibitive
> then we have the opportunity to correct it. I know the people involved at
> the moment have the communities best interest in mind (and I understand no
> one is suggesting otherwise), and I am confident that the OO board will
> hold us to account. I think if we can address these engagement issues as we
> go, this could be a good example for other SIGs starting out.
>
> Thanks
> Andrew
>
> On Fri, Dec 18, 2020 at 1:35 PM John Bryant <johnwbryant at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Thanks Andrew, I'm definitely on board with being inclusive and I think
>> Oceania-wide is great. My concern is about the SIG being seen as the
>> "go-to" representative of the whole region's QGIS community, before this
>> reach is genuinely established, and inadvertently standing in the way of
>> local leadership & initiatives. This is why I wonder whether we see this as
>> an expansion of the QGIS Australia User Group, or if they're kept as
>> distinct groups. I'd personally lean toward making the geographic scope
>> large, and the operational scope small (to begin with).
>>
>> Related, the OSMF made OSGeo Oceania's OpenStreetMap local chapter status
>> conditional on making it clear that country-based groups were entitled to
>> form their own local chapters (see wiki entry
>> <https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Oceania#OpenStreetMap_Oceania>).
>>
>> Anyway, I don't think this concern is a blocker, more a note of caution.
>> Hopefully Pacific and NZ people are interested and will join in, the SIG
>> could encourage this by being proactive about supporting users there.
>> Looking forward to helping!
>>
>> On Tue, 15 Dec 2020 at 14:12, Andrew Jeffrey <aljeffrey83 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi John,
>>>
>>> Thanks for the comments, I'll check them out. As for the questions you
>>> raise, they haven't been discussed yet and happy to discuss them here.
>>>
>>> *Geographic Scope of the Special Interest Group (SIG) - * As per the OSGeo
>>> Oceania SIG guidelines
>>> <https://drive.google.com/file/d/1U3R3wSHR9jo9VgywmAQqKswrylwjxw9-/edit>,
>>> it would be available to all OSGeo Oceania org (OO org) members so that
>>> would be the geographic area that OO org represents. Emma was also very
>>> passionate from the start that this is available to all Oceania and not
>>> just Australia. However, I do take on board your observation about the
>>> comments / feedback / input being very much Australian focused, in fact, I
>>> would go one step further and say that it has primarily been from the
>>> regular posters of the OO mailing list
>>> <https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/oceania/>. Would yourself or Emma
>>> have suggestions on how we could broaden the reach and improve the
>>> community input? Are there other channels that this should be made
>>> available on?
>>>
>>> *Which List - *My intention was that "the open mailing list" will be
>>> the OO mailing list <https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/oceania/>, so I
>>> do apologise for the ambiguity here and I can clear that up in the charter.
>>> As this is a Special Interest Group within the OO org, I believe that would
>>> be the best place for it. But that is only my opinion, happy for others to
>>> share their point of view and reach an outcome that we are all happy with.
>>>
>>> I have been cross-posting the charter and progress on the QGIS
>>> Australia User Group mailing list
>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/australian-qgis-user-group> for those who
>>> may be interested (I now recognise that this may have caused more confusion
>>> than necessary). A number of members in the QGIS Australia User group
>>> (myself included) wanted to form something like this SIG after the
>>> successful 2017 user meetup in Sydney, it ultimately failed because we
>>> didn't have the capacity to handle funds, and something much better came
>>> along in the local FOSS4G conference and the OO org because it addresses
>>> this challenge for all FOSS4G projects in the region. The development of
>>> this SIG will build on the QGIS community interest that we demonstrated
>>> exists in 2017, this time around we have the structure of the OO org to
>>> help us progress funding initiatives to drive investment in the community.
>>>
>>> Hope that helps,
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Andrew
>>>
>>> On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 2:54 PM John Bryant <johnwbryant at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Andrew, awesome work! I've added a few small comments in the doc and
>>>> want to bring up a couple of thoughts. Apologies if I'm raising questions
>>>> that have already been answered.
>>>>
>>>> *Geographic scope of the SIG*. In the doc it's called the Oceania QGIS
>>>> SIG. I know we've talked about inclusivity, and welcoming participation
>>>> from the whole region, in keeping with the ethos of FOSS4G SotM Oceania and
>>>> OSGeo Oceania. But I'm noticing that so far, (I think) the discussion has
>>>> only drawn comments and contributions from people in Australia. I guess
>>>> this is partly because the QGIS Australia community is pretty well
>>>> established, with a recognised QGIS user group and a mailing list dating
>>>> back nearly 10 years. But I'm wondering if we need to do more work to make
>>>> sure people in other countries welcome this representation. Does the lack
>>>> of participation to date reflect that the message isn't getting through, or
>>>> that only Australians are interested in this SIG? Or is it just that the
>>>> Australia QGIS community is leading the conversation because it's more
>>>> established, and maybe the rest of the region is watching & listening with
>>>> interest, and will join in later?
>>>>
>>>> *Which list?* There are a couple of references to "the open mailing
>>>> list", it might be good for us to clarify which list. The existing QGIS
>>>> Australia User Group mailing list
>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/australian-qgis-user-group>, or the
>>>> Oceania list, or another? I think it could be helpful to make this
>>>> unambiguous so that people know where to post, and which list to follow to
>>>> stay up to date. This might be part of a larger question of whether this
>>>> SIG is distinct from the QGIS Australia User Group, or is the same group in
>>>> a new form.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks!
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 at 13:42, Andrew Jeffrey <aljeffrey83 at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for the discussion on the QGIS SIG proposed charter so far.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have worked in the comments on dealing with a conflict of interest,
>>>>> voting (minimum number of voters), and membership tiers. Also a few
>>>>> formatting changes e.g. I moved the membership section higher up in the
>>>>> document.
>>>>>
>>>>> I suspect the membership tiers may need some further discussion, these
>>>>> were the tiers loosely discussed by our SIG proposers very early on (not
>>>>> the price but the distinction - prices are placeholders at the moment), we
>>>>> could also look at the pricing of the Swiss User group for guidance
>>>>> <https://www.qgis.ch/en/association/membership-application>. However,
>>>>> again this is all open for your input and feedback.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1lrewntrC0N1r6mfZdo1AdPhe2qTEaN5hDA2pcL0mrvI/edit?usp=sharing
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>> Andrew
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Dec 2, 2020 at 8:20 AM Andrew Jeffrey <aljeffrey83 at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for the discussion and input so far.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I see there are some comments on the charter itself as well which is
>>>>>> great, we'll try and address each of those in the document and I believe
>>>>>> you can see the history/resoltion of these in the "comment history" in the
>>>>>> doc itself. What I can see from the initial feedback is that the
>>>>>> "membership" or definition of needs more detail and we need to address the
>>>>>> potential for "conflicts of interest" when raising and voting on motions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> @adam - if you don't mind I will add your example text for dealing
>>>>>> with conflicts of interest from the previous email verbatim as a starting
>>>>>> point and evolve it from there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also, remember if you want to have some editing input on the charter
>>>>>> reach out and I can add you as an editor to the document.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>> Andrew
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Nov 30, 2020 at 9:48 PM Emma Hain <emmahain at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Emma Hain
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 30 Nov 2020, at 17:03, Phil Wyatt <phil at wyatt-family.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.qgis.ch/en/association/membership-application
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers - Phil,
>>>>>>> On the road with his iPad
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 30 Nov 2020, at 5:30 pm, Emma Hain <emmahain at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hey All
>>>>>>> I’m with the essence of what Martin put forward as well as Nathan.
>>>>>>> If those that can do pool together funds under the SIG then we can get the
>>>>>>> tools that Oceania needs.
>>>>>>> Is there a link to the Swiss Qgis funding model?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Emma Hain
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 30 Nov 2020, at 13:51, Martin Tomko <tomkom at unimelb.edu.au>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dear all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I just chip in, to elaborate on what I was thinking about when
>>>>>>> drafting the SIG guidelines.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The overall model, for me, was that of the ACM SIGs, which work well
>>>>>>> ( some), or less well ( others), but do not impact on each other. An OO
>>>>>>> member can be member of multiple SIGs, or none. Some may organise
>>>>>>> hackatons, mapping parties, microconferences, some may not. Some may even
>>>>>>> propose ( and successfully populate and run) a stream at a FOSS4G SOTM
>>>>>>> conference (that would be awesome). They may help set the program for the
>>>>>>> conference, etc, etc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The level of activity, and the financial resources they may have
>>>>>>> available will differ, and it is not up to the OO (board) to dictate, as
>>>>>>> long as they do not encroach on the freedom of others to have their own
>>>>>>> activities, do not place undue burden on the OO itself (run by volunteers,
>>>>>>> you do not want to process hundreds of micro payments, etc, I would say),
>>>>>>> or have multiple SIGs overlapping in scope.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Re fees. I would have assumed that most will be free, BUT the
>>>>>>> ability to levy a membership[ fee was left there exactly to satisfy the
>>>>>>> need for supporting a more intensive activity that is not “event” based.
>>>>>>> So, if the QGIS SIG decides to print a monthly SIG magazine and provide it
>>>>>>> as a membership service to the SIG, sure, why not, levy a membership fee.
>>>>>>> Or a website, online course, or similar.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Broader membership by organisations is starting to go borderline, to
>>>>>>> what Adam noted. Is this something where the overall interests of the
>>>>>>> organisation clash with the SIG? I would suggest let’s try this, and
>>>>>>> decide, as we go. If the burden by SIGS or the internal competition is too
>>>>>>> much ( we lose FOS4G SOTM sponsors to the SIG), then this will need to be
>>>>>>> addressed. This is I believe the main concern, but we are not there.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Martin
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *From: *Oceania <oceania-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>
>>>>>>> *Date: *Monday, 30 November 2020 at 1:51 pm
>>>>>>> *To: *Cameron Shorter <cameron.shorter at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> *Cc: *QGIS Australia User Group <
>>>>>>> australian-qgis-user-group at googlegroups.com>, OSgeo - Oceania <
>>>>>>> oceania at lists.osgeo.org>
>>>>>>> *Subject: *Re: [OSGeo Oceania] [Aus-NZ-QGIS-group] Community
>>>>>>> consultation: OO Org QGIS Special Interest Group Charter
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hey Cameron
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The issue of membership fees is only for the QGIS special interest
>>>>>>> group. The OSGeo Oceania membership will always be zero, or near zero cost.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'll let the QGIS folks speak for themselves, but they're talking
>>>>>>> about being able to pool money to fund specific activities, and if people
>>>>>>> are willing to pay for a subscription to regularly contribute, and they
>>>>>>> call it a membership of that QGIS SIG, that's all good, I say!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Alex
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 at 13:33, Cameron Shorter <
>>>>>>> cameron.shorter at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The question of membership fees pops up every few years with
>>>>>>> arguments for and against.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I summarized a bunch of threads in the OSGeo community back when I
>>>>>>> was on the OSGeo board in:
>>>>>>> http://cameronshorter.blogspot.com/2013/03/osgeo-board-priorities.html
>>>>>>> .There may be some points in there which you can reuse.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> OSGeo as a low capital, volunteer focused organisation
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Should OSGeo act as a high capital or low capital organisation?
>>>>>>> I.e., should OSGeo dedicate energy to collecting sponsorship and then
>>>>>>> passing out these funds to worthy OSGeo causes.
>>>>>>> While initially it seems attractive to have OSGeo woo sponsors,
>>>>>>> because we would all love to have more money to throw at worthy OSGeo
>>>>>>> goals, the reality is that chasing money is hard work. And someone who can
>>>>>>> chase OSGeo sponsorship is likely conflicted with chasing sponsorship for
>>>>>>> their particular workplace. So in practice, to be effective in chasing
>>>>>>> sponsorship, OSGeo will probably need to hire someone specifically for the
>>>>>>> role. OSGeo would then need to raise at least enough to cover wages, and
>>>>>>> then quite a bit more if the sponsorship path is to create extra value.
>>>>>>> This high capital path is how the Eclipse foundation is set up, and
>>>>>>> how LocationTech propose to organise themselves. It is the path that OSGeo
>>>>>>> started following when founded under the umbrella of Autodesk.
>>>>>>> However, over the last seven years, OSGeo has slowly evolved toward
>>>>>>> a low capital volunteer focused organisation. Our overheads are very low,
>>>>>>> which means we waste very little of our volunteer labour and capital on the
>>>>>>> time consuming task of chasing and managing money. Consequently, any money
>>>>>>> we do receive (from conference windfalls or sponsorship) goes a long way -
>>>>>>> as it doesn't get eaten up by high overheads. As discussed and agreed by
>>>>>>> the board, this low capital path is something that is working very well for
>>>>>>> us, and is the path we should continue to follow.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 at 05:21, Adam Steer <adam.d.steer at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi all
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks Andrew for addressing all the questions people have.
>>>>>>> Responding
>>>>>>> to your reply to my questions:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - OK about sponsorships and so on, I can see that the QGIS SIG could
>>>>>>> choose to align events with FOSS4G SotM Oceania editions, thereby
>>>>>>> really streamlining logistics and effort and working with the whole
>>>>>>> community
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - conflict of interest: really hard in a community where everyone
>>>>>>> knows each other - my science community is the same, anonymous
>>>>>>> reviews
>>>>>>> are almost impossible! I think yes, recusing people from decision
>>>>>>> making is a great step. I also think it's unrealistic to make a
>>>>>>> blanket statement that fits all cases. I think the best approach
>>>>>>> might
>>>>>>> be to handle each case as it comes, and do it transparently. To make
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> concrete suggestion - and feel free to disagree - the charter could
>>>>>>> contain a statement  like 'Conflicts of interest, real or perceived,
>>>>>>> will be handled in accordance with our code of conduct. This means
>>>>>>> recusing relevant parties from decision making as early as possible
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> the process, and discussing the matter openly with our community. In
>>>>>>> some cases, we may have to proceed by funding people who make
>>>>>>> decisions about where to apply funds. This is a function of a small
>>>>>>> and close knit community, and will always be discussed openly with
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> community first.'
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There are probably heaps of loopholes in that, and impossible to
>>>>>>> close
>>>>>>> them all - so the short version is to write exactly what you wrote in
>>>>>>> reply: 'we will be ethical, and will resist being a funding pipeline
>>>>>>> to particular people or companies'. The community has to step up to
>>>>>>> make that always true.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have no thoughts to add to John's about SIG membership, except I
>>>>>>> really like that you're thinking about how to manage it in an
>>>>>>> inclusive fashion.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I do have an opinion about creating sub-SIGS though - in my science
>>>>>>> career I've seen multiple disciplines discover the same tooling a few
>>>>>>> times. So my hot take is 'avoid having discipline-specific
>>>>>>> subgroups',
>>>>>>> way better to let disciplinary cross-fertilisation happen ;)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Adam
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, 29 Nov 2020 at 09:39, Andrew Jeffrey <aljeffrey83 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > Hi,
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > No problems, with everything going on post conference, elections,
>>>>>>> and the upcoming holiday period we may need to leave this open for comment
>>>>>>> for a little longer than normal. Happy to go with what people feel is
>>>>>>> needed here.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > John, regarding your thoughts on the membership I agree 100%, the
>>>>>>> charter at the moment has a sentence stating the SIG should be "providing
>>>>>>> membership avenues for people that may not be in a financial position to
>>>>>>> pay a fee" perhaps we need more clarity around membership and what it
>>>>>>> involves in the charter? To be clear, my thoughts are that keeping in the
>>>>>>> spirit of OO the SIG should be available to everyone and no one should be
>>>>>>> excluded from participating, on reflection the term "membership" might come
>>>>>>> across as prohibitive. I'm sure we'll come up with something acceptable
>>>>>>> through conversation here.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > For context though it may be helpful to explain the intent behind
>>>>>>> the idea of a "membership". The issues it aims to address are below:
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > There is some difficulty associated with organisations giving a
>>>>>>> "donation", but purchasing something like a "membership" to a professional
>>>>>>> user group seems to be acceptable and is easier justified in some
>>>>>>> procurement processes.
>>>>>>> > For individuals donating to QGIS helps the project but has little
>>>>>>> influence on their QGIS experience, also individuals on the QGIS list have
>>>>>>> indicated trouble participating in crowdfunding campaigns due to high
>>>>>>> minimum pledges.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > A QGIS SIG would allow us to receive money from interested parties
>>>>>>> wanting to support QGIS in our region, pool the funds and then spend as the
>>>>>>> SIG sees fit. The best part is the money will be spent on the items scoped
>>>>>>> in our charter which is again relevant to users in our region. For lack of
>>>>>>> a better term think of it as a "co-op" for the donations alot of us already
>>>>>>> make on an ad-hoc basis. Ideally we would be looking to get a majority of
>>>>>>> the membership from organisations that we know use QGIS to support a bulk
>>>>>>> of this activity, and then people willing to make a personal contribution
>>>>>>> would then add to that. Then if people can't make a personal contribution
>>>>>>> that is also fine because they can assist in other ways.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > That was the idea in justifying a membership fee. We will need to
>>>>>>> offer something in return, for individuals that will be the professional
>>>>>>> network and for organisations that will be recognition at this early stage
>>>>>>> but as we progress this may evolve.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > Thanks
>>>>>>> > Andrew
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > On Sat, Nov 28, 2020 at 3:57 PM John Bryant <johnwbryant at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> Andrew, thanks a lot for continuing to push this forward. It has
>>>>>>> been a couple of months since I last looked at this, and I haven't really
>>>>>>> had a detailed look at the SIG concept yet.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> I'm 'out of the office' for the next few days, but would be happy
>>>>>>> to join in this discussion when I get back, and have a proper chance to
>>>>>>> refresh my memory and get up to speed on SIGs.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> One brief thought, it feels like it would be good to consider a
>>>>>>> free (or very inexpensive) tier of membership. I suspect many of us can't
>>>>>>> justify (or can't afford) to spend much, but could contribute in other ways.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> Cheers
>>>>>>> >> John
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> On Fri, 27 Nov 2020, 9:46 am Andrew Jeffrey, <
>>>>>>> aljeffrey83 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>> Hi Adam,
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>> Thanks for the feedback.
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>> I agree the SIG shouldn't bring about any duplication of the
>>>>>>> processes that the OO currently does. A SIG as defined in the guidelines
>>>>>>> should be "enabling OSGeo Oceania members to interact, share knowledge,
>>>>>>> organise events, and collaborate on a selected, targeted topic within the
>>>>>>> scope of OSGeo Oceania". So a SIG should be complementary to the OO
>>>>>>> function and allow the interested community members to drive engagement in
>>>>>>> that area without the OO board having to do it all. Like you say though,
>>>>>>> open communication between the SIG and the OO board is key in making sure
>>>>>>> there is no overlap being introduced. Also to be clear the SIG isn’t
>>>>>>> seeking “sponsorship” as such but we do want to be able to collect a
>>>>>>> membership fee for people/orgs wanting to be involved, allowing them to
>>>>>>> fund items that maybe other OO members don’t see as important. I don’t see
>>>>>>> this taking away from conference sponsorship and this idea will ultimately
>>>>>>> sink or swim depending on whether the SIG members have an appetite to fund
>>>>>>> the items in our scope.
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>> As for the conflict of interest, to be honest I don't know the
>>>>>>> answer in regards to how that should be dealt with. I think we need to add
>>>>>>> something in the charter, would removing those people from the proposal and
>>>>>>> voting process be enough? How does OO deal with this? I don’t want to rule
>>>>>>> local devs out of working on this because they belong to the group, but we
>>>>>>> also don’t want to become the entry point to company XYZ.
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>> Thanks for the feedback.
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>> Andrew
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>> On Fri, Nov 27, 2020 at 7:35 AM Adam Steer <
>>>>>>> adam.d.steer at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>> >>>> Hey Andrew and all the QGIS SIG proposers
>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>> >>>> Thanks, I think this is a perfect use of OSGeo Oceania as a
>>>>>>> backing
>>>>>>> >>>> organisation :)
>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>> >>>> My only reservation with any SIG proposal is that effort isn't
>>>>>>> >>>> duplicated about events and marketing, and also that a funding
>>>>>>> from a
>>>>>>> >>>> small pool of interested parties (relative to other parts of the
>>>>>>> >>>> world) is able to be effectively spread among the whole
>>>>>>> community. For
>>>>>>> >>>> an example it would be a bit awry to see a SIG gather a heap of
>>>>>>> >>>> funding at the expense of conference sponsorships. I guess in
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> >>>> case the SIG could also sponsor conferences? This goes the
>>>>>>> other way
>>>>>>> >>>> too - the existence of a well connected SIG makes it easier for
>>>>>>> OO to
>>>>>>> >>>> fund a QGIS feature (for example) if it decides to do so.
>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>> >>>> I think clear, constant and open communication between OO and
>>>>>>> the SIG
>>>>>>> >>>> will make those concerns go away.
>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>> >>>> In writing this I did work my thoughts through to  a serious
>>>>>>> question:
>>>>>>> >>>> How will the SIG deal with conflicts of interest? A stated aim
>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>> >>>> SIG is to fund development, what will the SIG do if all the key
>>>>>>> QGIS
>>>>>>> >>>> developers in the region are also in the group of people making
>>>>>>> >>>> decisions about buying developer time?
>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>> >>>> My only comment on the charter itself is that if you want, you
>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>> >>>> link to the existing Berlin Code of Conduct:
>>>>>>> >>>> https://berlincodeofconduct.org/ - with which the upcoming OO
>>>>>>> CoC
>>>>>>> >>>> should be 100% compatible.
>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>> >>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>> >>>> Adam
>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>> >>>> On Thu, 26 Nov 2020 at 04:37, Andrew Jeffrey <
>>>>>>> aljeffrey83 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >>>> > Hi All,
>>>>>>> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >>>> > The OSGeo Oceania board has approved an initiative for
>>>>>>> members to form Special Interest Groups (SIGs) within the OO community.
>>>>>>> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >>>> > A SIG is a way for community members to collaborate around
>>>>>>> common interests which in this case is QGIS.
>>>>>>> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >>>> > In establishing a SIG, the OO board requires that the group
>>>>>>> proposing the SIG put forward a charter which outlines the Aim and Scope
>>>>>>> under which the SIG will operate.
>>>>>>> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >>>> > Myself, Emma Hain, John Bryant, Nathan Woodrow and Nyall
>>>>>>> Dawson would like to start a QGIS SIG which can be used to benefit QGIS
>>>>>>> users in our community. To get things started we have come up with a
>>>>>>> charter that we would like to make available for community consultation. As
>>>>>>> this charter currently reflects our input we would like to put this out for
>>>>>>> discussion to see if what we are proposing is on the right path for the
>>>>>>> community. At the moment everyone with the link below has "comment"
>>>>>>> permissions, but "edit" permissions can be granted on request if you would
>>>>>>> like to get more involved and you're welcome to do so.
>>>>>>> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >>>> >
>>>>>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1lrewntrC0N1r6mfZdo1AdPhe2qTEaN5hDA2pcL0mrvI/edit?usp=sharing
>>>>>>> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >>>> > I also just want to be upfront that this SIG is proposing
>>>>>>> that there be a membership fee associated with the group. The funds raised
>>>>>>> by the membership will be stored with the OO org and then used by the SIG
>>>>>>> on items as scoped out in the charter. The idea with the membership is not
>>>>>>> to "make money" but to pool our small contributions to give us better
>>>>>>> "buying power" for lack of a better term. As a SIG within the OO org we can
>>>>>>> participate in crowdfunding campaigns, engage a dev to develop a feature
>>>>>>> important to us but might not be recognised as important to the larger QGIS
>>>>>>> project, or engage a trainer to provide professional development via Zoom,
>>>>>>> the types of things that are hard to do as individuals or as a user group
>>>>>>> with no funds etc. The membership arrangement also allows us to offer
>>>>>>> membership to organisations which will become a way for them to support
>>>>>>> QGIS and their local QGIS community. Ideally, this is where a majority of
>>>>>>> the funds would come from as we don't want an individual to be excluded due
>>>>>>> to a "fee", which is also covered in the charter. I'm available as I'm sure
>>>>>>> the other proposers are to discuss the intention of this further and in the
>>>>>>> open on this list.
>>>>>>> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >>>> > Any questions feel free to ask or if you prefer to comment on
>>>>>>> the charter that is fine too.
>>>>>>> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >>>> > I look forward to discussing this with you.
>>>>>>> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >>>> > Thanks
>>>>>>> >>>> > Andrew
>>>>>>> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >>>> > --
>>>>>>> >>>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the
>>>>>>> Google Groups "QGIS Australia User Group" group.
>>>>>>> >>>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from
>>>>>>> it, send an email to
>>>>>>> australian-qgis-user-group+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>>>>>>> >>>> > To view this discussion on the web, visit
>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/australian-qgis-user-group/CADTxF6bV6OicKcLveZsexfQ_gLULoFTpATV3iyjxWBswRyM_iA%40mail.gmail.com
>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>> >>>> --
>>>>>>> >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the
>>>>>>> Google Groups "QGIS Australia User Group" group.
>>>>>>> >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from
>>>>>>> it, send an email to
>>>>>>> australian-qgis-user-group+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>>>>>>> >>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit
>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/australian-qgis-user-group/CAFORoyh3xiAcvRrAWbNK%3DrH%2B0-DUhq1GZnVp08t8HX90R9tdKA%40mail.gmail.com
>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>> --
>>>>>>> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the
>>>>>>> Google Groups "QGIS Australia User Group" group.
>>>>>>> >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from
>>>>>>> it, send an email to
>>>>>>> australian-qgis-user-group+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>>>>>>> >>> To view this discussion on the web, visit
>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/australian-qgis-user-group/CADTxF6ZUvSgCSuzn-ikrGNAKBmaQ5Mc84uCTbOeLSLqRtjfzew%40mail.gmail.com
>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> --
>>>>>>> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the
>>>>>>> Google Groups "QGIS Australia User Group" group.
>>>>>>> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>>>>>>> send an email to
>>>>>>> australian-qgis-user-group+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>>>>>>> >> To view this discussion on the web, visit
>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/australian-qgis-user-group/CAHY5hn8OAzyneschpsBa2XwifpKo47mFrWfwGafoDAOJjFir1Q%40mail.gmail.com
>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > --
>>>>>>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>>>>> Groups "QGIS Australia User Group" group.
>>>>>>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>>>>>>> send an email to
>>>>>>> australian-qgis-user-group+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>>>>>>> > To view this discussion on the web, visit
>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/australian-qgis-user-group/CADTxF6b8jpUOK8EeMyUnd3rYG9N_EAKtU%3D%2Bwao1ZZUHBHUw9aQ%40mail.gmail.com
>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>>>>> Groups "QGIS Australia User Group" group.
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>>>>>>> send an email to
>>>>>>> australian-qgis-user-group+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit
>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/australian-qgis-user-group/CAFORoyiDubVGZybpYo_uQs_8m%2BF9-LKcKTWHtrNG41vT8Mf%2BmA%40mail.gmail.com
>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cameron Shorter
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Technical Writer, Google
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Oceania mailing list
>>>>>>> Oceania at lists.osgeo.org
>>>>>>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/oceania
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Alex Leith
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> m: 0419189050
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Oceania mailing list
>>>>>>> Oceania at lists.osgeo.org
>>>>>>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/oceania
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>>>>> Groups "QGIS Australia User Group" group.
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>>>>>>> send an email to
>>>>>>> australian-qgis-user-group+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit
>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/australian-qgis-user-group/5BAC325B-3737-48E0-8BB3-DEA443E3AD37%40gmail.com
>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/australian-qgis-user-group/5BAC325B-3737-48E0-8BB3-DEA443E3AD37%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Oceania mailing list
>>>>>>> Oceania at lists.osgeo.org
>>>>>>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/oceania
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>>>>> Groups "QGIS Australia User Group" group.
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>>>>>>> send an email to
>>>>>>> australian-qgis-user-group+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit
>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/australian-qgis-user-group/8A38D2B4-7014-4F98-96B7-F1C51FD5ADF2%40gmail.com
>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/australian-qgis-user-group/8A38D2B4-7014-4F98-96B7-F1C51FD5ADF2%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>>> Groups "QGIS Australia User Group" group.
>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>>>> an email to australian-qgis-user-group+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>>>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit
>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/australian-qgis-user-group/CADTxF6Z4oWBv0P6arOBQHGc9_p%2BzXaZp4K3yWZ1%3DQGxyoZmKew%40mail.gmail.com
>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/australian-qgis-user-group/CADTxF6Z4oWBv0P6arOBQHGc9_p%2BzXaZp4K3yWZ1%3DQGxyoZmKew%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>>> .
>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>> Groups "QGIS Australia User Group" group.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>>> an email to australian-qgis-user-group+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit
>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/australian-qgis-user-group/CAHY5hn82AdqbF59EcXsoc-A-SWKK4GZkoMkL0NGpgmzbCHpF5Q%40mail.gmail.com
>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/australian-qgis-user-group/CAHY5hn82AdqbF59EcXsoc-A-SWKK4GZkoMkL0NGpgmzbCHpF5Q%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>> .
>>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "QGIS Australia User Group" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to australian-qgis-user-group+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/australian-qgis-user-group/CADTxF6YwH9ruDY%3DuF7aOvK7XffLs%2B89ZWfJnf84XUrrs90a74Q%40mail.gmail.com
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/australian-qgis-user-group/CADTxF6YwH9ruDY%3DuF7aOvK7XffLs%2B89ZWfJnf84XUrrs90a74Q%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>> .
>>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "QGIS Australia User Group" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to australian-qgis-user-group+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web, visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/australian-qgis-user-group/CAHY5hn95pONHc1dyzGZThfhMs6iQFzab6VdR4ZO8ToSkbYrwAQ%40mail.gmail.com
>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/australian-qgis-user-group/CAHY5hn95pONHc1dyzGZThfhMs6iQFzab6VdR4ZO8ToSkbYrwAQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>> .
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Oceania mailing list
> Oceania at lists.osgeo.org
> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/oceania
>
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