[OSGeo Oceania] [Aus-NZ-QGIS-group] Community consultation: OO Org QGIS Special Interest Group Charter

Wed Dec 23 02:55:18 PST 2020

Hi All
For our first meeting, I propose the week starting 10th January. Can you
please fill in your preference for meeting times in this doodle poll.
https://doodle.com/poll/e4iv56ra4u657eug?utm_source=poll&utm_medium=link

Also, please send me any items for an agenda.
Once I have a draft I will send through the link.

Thanks
Em

On Wed, Dec 23, 2020 at 11:01 AM Emma Hain <emmahain at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hey all can we set up a meeting?
> Do we want to do it after Xmas and before new year or in new year - i am
> back on deck on 10th Jan
>
> On Mon, Dec 21, 2020 at 6:42 PM Andrew Jeffrey <aljeffrey83 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi John,
>>
>> Thanks for the comments.
>>
>> I see what you mean about appearing to be the "go-to" group without
>> engagement from the whole community.
>>
>> The SIG does not necessarily have to be the QGIS user group for the whole
>> Oceania region, it is expressed that way in the charter but if it doesn't
>> work then it doesn't need to stay that way. The QGIS user groups have a
>> model where the user group can be regional or national -
>> https://www.qgis.org/en/site/forusers/usergroups.html - The UK, for
>> example, has three representing different parts of the UK. There is no
>> reason why Oceania couldn't have multiple independent QGIS user groups like
>> Oceania (Australia), Oceania (Aotearoa), Oceania (Fiji) etc. I do, however,
>> see all of these user groups within Oceania having the same problem that
>> the Australian QGIS group experienced regarding the running of our own
>> events, as described before the OO org and SIG concept provide a framework
>> to address that.
>>
>> So, I don't see the SIG standing in the way of local initiatives, but we
>> do have responsibility to engage with the Oceania community and let them
>> know that this SIG and its resources are not exclusive to the Australian
>> QGIS users.
>>
>> Also, I was going to message you this and ask for advice but it's
>> probably best out in the open for other people to throw around suggestions.
>> I have struggled with how to best interact with parts/regions of the OO
>> community. I've included the Australian QGIS list along the way because it
>> is the only user group in Oceania registered on the QGIS site and the OO
>> mailing list because we want to form a SIG within that community. However,
>> if there are other user groups out there and people know of them i'd
>> appreciate it if you could put me in touch.
>>
>> My preference at the moment with the engagement we have is to push on as
>> defined in the charter. The charter is able to be altered in the future, so
>> if something just doesn't work or turns out to inadvertently be prohibitive
>> then we have the opportunity to correct it. I know the people involved at
>> the moment have the communities best interest in mind (and I understand no
>> one is suggesting otherwise), and I am confident that the OO board will
>> hold us to account. I think if we can address these engagement issues as we
>> go, this could be a good example for other SIGs starting out.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Andrew
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 18, 2020 at 1:35 PM John Bryant <johnwbryant at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks Andrew, I'm definitely on board with being inclusive and I think
>>> Oceania-wide is great. My concern is about the SIG being seen as the
>>> "go-to" representative of the whole region's QGIS community, before this
>>> reach is genuinely established, and inadvertently standing in the way of
>>> local leadership & initiatives. This is why I wonder whether we see this as
>>> an expansion of the QGIS Australia User Group, or if they're kept as
>>> distinct groups. I'd personally lean toward making the geographic scope
>>> large, and the operational scope small (to begin with).
>>>
>>> Related, the OSMF made OSGeo Oceania's OpenStreetMap local chapter
>>> status conditional on making it clear that country-based groups were
>>> entitled to form their own local chapters (see wiki entry
>>> <https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Oceania#OpenStreetMap_Oceania>).
>>>
>>> Anyway, I don't think this concern is a blocker, more a note of caution.
>>> Hopefully Pacific and NZ people are interested and will join in, the SIG
>>> could encourage this by being proactive about supporting users there.
>>> Looking forward to helping!
>>>
>>> On Tue, 15 Dec 2020 at 14:12, Andrew Jeffrey <aljeffrey83 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi John,
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the comments, I'll check them out. As for the questions you
>>>> raise, they haven't been discussed yet and happy to discuss them here.
>>>>
>>>> *Geographic Scope of the Special Interest Group (SIG) - * As per the OSGeo
>>>> Oceania SIG guidelines
>>>> <https://drive.google.com/file/d/1U3R3wSHR9jo9VgywmAQqKswrylwjxw9-/edit>,
>>>> it would be available to all OSGeo Oceania org (OO org) members so that
>>>> would be the geographic area that OO org represents. Emma was also very
>>>> passionate from the start that this is available to all Oceania and not
>>>> just Australia. However, I do take on board your observation about the
>>>> comments / feedback / input being very much Australian focused, in fact, I
>>>> would go one step further and say that it has primarily been from the
>>>> regular posters of the OO mailing list
>>>> <https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/oceania/>. Would yourself or Emma
>>>> have suggestions on how we could broaden the reach and improve the
>>>> community input? Are there other channels that this should be made
>>>> available on?
>>>>
>>>> *Which List - *My intention was that "the open mailing list" will be
>>>> the OO mailing list <https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/oceania/>, so I
>>>> do apologise for the ambiguity here and I can clear that up in the charter.
>>>> As this is a Special Interest Group within the OO org, I believe that would
>>>> be the best place for it. But that is only my opinion, happy for others to
>>>> share their point of view and reach an outcome that we are all happy with.
>>>>
>>>> I have been cross-posting the charter and progress on the QGIS
>>>> Australia User Group mailing list
>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/australian-qgis-user-group> for those who
>>>> may be interested (I now recognise that this may have caused more confusion
>>>> than necessary). A number of members in the QGIS Australia User group
>>>> (myself included) wanted to form something like this SIG after the
>>>> successful 2017 user meetup in Sydney, it ultimately failed because we
>>>> didn't have the capacity to handle funds, and something much better came
>>>> along in the local FOSS4G conference and the OO org because it addresses
>>>> this challenge for all FOSS4G projects in the region. The development of
>>>> this SIG will build on the QGIS community interest that we demonstrated
>>>> exists in 2017, this time around we have the structure of the OO org to
>>>> help us progress funding initiatives to drive investment in the community.
>>>>
>>>> Hope that helps,
>>>> Thanks
>>>>
>>>> Andrew
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 2:54 PM John Bryant <johnwbryant at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Andrew, awesome work! I've added a few small comments in the doc
>>>>> and want to bring up a couple of thoughts. Apologies if I'm raising
>>>>> questions that have already been answered.
>>>>>
>>>>> *Geographic scope of the SIG*. In the doc it's called the Oceania
>>>>> QGIS SIG. I know we've talked about inclusivity, and welcoming
>>>>> participation from the whole region, in keeping with the ethos of FOSS4G
>>>>> SotM Oceania and OSGeo Oceania. But I'm noticing that so far, (I think) the
>>>>> discussion has only drawn comments and contributions from people in
>>>>> Australia. I guess this is partly because the QGIS Australia community is
>>>>> pretty well established, with a recognised QGIS user group and a mailing
>>>>> list dating back nearly 10 years. But I'm wondering if we need to do more
>>>>> work to make sure people in other countries welcome this representation.
>>>>> Does the lack of participation to date reflect that the message isn't
>>>>> getting through, or that only Australians are interested in this SIG? Or is
>>>>> it just that the Australia QGIS community is leading the conversation
>>>>> because it's more established, and maybe the rest of the region is watching
>>>>> & listening with interest, and will join in later?
>>>>>
>>>>> *Which list?* There are a couple of references to "the open mailing
>>>>> list", it might be good for us to clarify which list. The existing QGIS
>>>>> Australia User Group mailing list
>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/australian-qgis-user-group>, or the
>>>>> Oceania list, or another? I think it could be helpful to make this
>>>>> unambiguous so that people know where to post, and which list to follow to
>>>>> stay up to date. This might be part of a larger question of whether this
>>>>> SIG is distinct from the QGIS Australia User Group, or is the same group in
>>>>> a new form.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>> John
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 at 13:42, Andrew Jeffrey <aljeffrey83 at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for the discussion on the QGIS SIG proposed charter so far.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have worked in the comments on dealing with a conflict of interest,
>>>>>> voting (minimum number of voters), and membership tiers. Also a few
>>>>>> formatting changes e.g. I moved the membership section higher up in the
>>>>>> document.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I suspect the membership tiers may need some further discussion,
>>>>>> these were the tiers loosely discussed by our SIG proposers very early on
>>>>>> (not the price but the distinction - prices are placeholders at the
>>>>>> moment), we could also look at the pricing of the Swiss User group
>>>>>> for guidance
>>>>>> <https://www.qgis.ch/en/association/membership-application>.
>>>>>> However, again this is all open for your input and feedback.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1lrewntrC0N1r6mfZdo1AdPhe2qTEaN5hDA2pcL0mrvI/edit?usp=sharing
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>> Andrew
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Dec 2, 2020 at 8:20 AM Andrew Jeffrey <aljeffrey83 at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks for the discussion and input so far.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I see there are some comments on the charter itself as well which is
>>>>>>> great, we'll try and address each of those in the document and I believe
>>>>>>> you can see the history/resoltion of these in the "comment history" in the
>>>>>>> doc itself. What I can see from the initial feedback is that the
>>>>>>> "membership" or definition of needs more detail and we need to address the
>>>>>>> potential for "conflicts of interest" when raising and voting on motions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> @adam - if you don't mind I will add your example text for dealing
>>>>>>> with conflicts of interest from the previous email verbatim as a starting
>>>>>>> point and evolve it from there.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Also, remember if you want to have some editing input on the charter
>>>>>>> reach out and I can add you as an editor to the document.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>> Andrew
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Nov 30, 2020 at 9:48 PM Emma Hain <emmahain at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Emma Hain
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 30 Nov 2020, at 17:03, Phil Wyatt <phil at wyatt-family.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.qgis.ch/en/association/membership-application
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cheers - Phil,
>>>>>>>> On the road with his iPad
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 30 Nov 2020, at 5:30 pm, Emma Hain <emmahain at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hey All
>>>>>>>> I’m with the essence of what Martin put forward as well as Nathan.
>>>>>>>> If those that can do pool together funds under the SIG then we can get the
>>>>>>>> tools that Oceania needs.
>>>>>>>> Is there a link to the Swiss Qgis funding model?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Emma Hain
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 30 Nov 2020, at 13:51, Martin Tomko <tomkom at unimelb.edu.au>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dear all,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I just chip in, to elaborate on what I was thinking about when
>>>>>>>> drafting the SIG guidelines.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The overall model, for me, was that of the ACM SIGs, which work
>>>>>>>> well ( some), or less well ( others), but do not impact on each other. An
>>>>>>>> OO member can be member of multiple SIGs, or none. Some may organise
>>>>>>>> hackatons, mapping parties, microconferences, some may not. Some may even
>>>>>>>> propose ( and successfully populate and run) a stream at a FOSS4G SOTM
>>>>>>>> conference (that would be awesome). They may help set the program for the
>>>>>>>> conference, etc, etc.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The level of activity, and the financial resources they may have
>>>>>>>> available will differ, and it is not up to the OO (board) to dictate, as
>>>>>>>> long as they do not encroach on the freedom of others to have their own
>>>>>>>> activities, do not place undue burden on the OO itself (run by volunteers,
>>>>>>>> you do not want to process hundreds of micro payments, etc, I would say),
>>>>>>>> or have multiple SIGs overlapping in scope.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Re fees. I would have assumed that most will be free, BUT the
>>>>>>>> ability to levy a membership[ fee was left there exactly to satisfy the
>>>>>>>> need for supporting a more intensive activity that is not “event” based.
>>>>>>>> So, if the QGIS SIG decides to print a monthly SIG magazine and provide it
>>>>>>>> as a membership service to the SIG, sure, why not, levy a membership fee.
>>>>>>>> Or a website, online course, or similar.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Broader membership by organisations is starting to go borderline,
>>>>>>>> to what Adam noted. Is this something where the overall interests of the
>>>>>>>> organisation clash with the SIG? I would suggest let’s try this, and
>>>>>>>> decide, as we go. If the burden by SIGS or the internal competition is too
>>>>>>>> much ( we lose FOS4G SOTM sponsors to the SIG), then this will need to be
>>>>>>>> addressed. This is I believe the main concern, but we are not there.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Martin
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *From: *Oceania <oceania-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>
>>>>>>>> *Date: *Monday, 30 November 2020 at 1:51 pm
>>>>>>>> *To: *Cameron Shorter <cameron.shorter at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> *Cc: *QGIS Australia User Group <
>>>>>>>> australian-qgis-user-group at googlegroups.com>, OSgeo - Oceania <
>>>>>>>> oceania at lists.osgeo.org>
>>>>>>>> *Subject: *Re: [OSGeo Oceania] [Aus-NZ-QGIS-group] Community
>>>>>>>> consultation: OO Org QGIS Special Interest Group Charter
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hey Cameron
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The issue of membership fees is only for the QGIS special interest
>>>>>>>> group. The OSGeo Oceania membership will always be zero, or near zero cost.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'll let the QGIS folks speak for themselves, but they're talking
>>>>>>>> about being able to pool money to fund specific activities, and if people
>>>>>>>> are willing to pay for a subscription to regularly contribute, and they
>>>>>>>> call it a membership of that QGIS SIG, that's all good, I say!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Alex
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 at 13:33, Cameron Shorter <
>>>>>>>> cameron.shorter at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The question of membership fees pops up every few years with
>>>>>>>> arguments for and against.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I summarized a bunch of threads in the OSGeo community back when I
>>>>>>>> was on the OSGeo board in:
>>>>>>>> http://cameronshorter.blogspot.com/2013/03/osgeo-board-priorities.html
>>>>>>>> .There may be some points in there which you can reuse.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> OSGeo as a low capital, volunteer focused organisation
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Should OSGeo act as a high capital or low capital organisation?
>>>>>>>> I.e., should OSGeo dedicate energy to collecting sponsorship and then
>>>>>>>> passing out these funds to worthy OSGeo causes.
>>>>>>>> While initially it seems attractive to have OSGeo woo sponsors,
>>>>>>>> because we would all love to have more money to throw at worthy OSGeo
>>>>>>>> goals, the reality is that chasing money is hard work. And someone who can
>>>>>>>> chase OSGeo sponsorship is likely conflicted with chasing sponsorship for
>>>>>>>> their particular workplace. So in practice, to be effective in chasing
>>>>>>>> sponsorship, OSGeo will probably need to hire someone specifically for the
>>>>>>>> role. OSGeo would then need to raise at least enough to cover wages, and
>>>>>>>> then quite a bit more if the sponsorship path is to create extra value.
>>>>>>>> This high capital path is how the Eclipse foundation is set up, and
>>>>>>>> how LocationTech propose to organise themselves. It is the path that OSGeo
>>>>>>>> started following when founded under the umbrella of Autodesk.
>>>>>>>> However, over the last seven years, OSGeo has slowly evolved toward
>>>>>>>> a low capital volunteer focused organisation. Our overheads are very low,
>>>>>>>> which means we waste very little of our volunteer labour and capital on the
>>>>>>>> time consuming task of chasing and managing money. Consequently, any money
>>>>>>>> we do receive (from conference windfalls or sponsorship) goes a long way -
>>>>>>>> as it doesn't get eaten up by high overheads. As discussed and agreed by
>>>>>>>> the board, this low capital path is something that is working very well for
>>>>>>>> us, and is the path we should continue to follow.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 at 05:21, Adam Steer <adam.d.steer at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi all
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks Andrew for addressing all the questions people have.
>>>>>>>> Responding
>>>>>>>> to your reply to my questions:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - OK about sponsorships and so on, I can see that the QGIS SIG could
>>>>>>>> choose to align events with FOSS4G SotM Oceania editions, thereby
>>>>>>>> really streamlining logistics and effort and working with the whole
>>>>>>>> community
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - conflict of interest: really hard in a community where everyone
>>>>>>>> knows each other - my science community is the same, anonymous
>>>>>>>> reviews
>>>>>>>> are almost impossible! I think yes, recusing people from decision
>>>>>>>> making is a great step. I also think it's unrealistic to make a
>>>>>>>> blanket statement that fits all cases. I think the best approach
>>>>>>>> might
>>>>>>>> be to handle each case as it comes, and do it transparently. To
>>>>>>>> make a
>>>>>>>> concrete suggestion - and feel free to disagree - the charter could
>>>>>>>> contain a statement  like 'Conflicts of interest, real or perceived,
>>>>>>>> will be handled in accordance with our code of conduct. This means
>>>>>>>> recusing relevant parties from decision making as early as possible
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> the process, and discussing the matter openly with our community. In
>>>>>>>> some cases, we may have to proceed by funding people who make
>>>>>>>> decisions about where to apply funds. This is a function of a small
>>>>>>>> and close knit community, and will always be discussed openly with
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> community first.'
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There are probably heaps of loopholes in that, and impossible to
>>>>>>>> close
>>>>>>>> them all - so the short version is to write exactly what you wrote
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> reply: 'we will be ethical, and will resist being a funding pipeline
>>>>>>>> to particular people or companies'. The community has to step up to
>>>>>>>> make that always true.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have no thoughts to add to John's about SIG membership, except I
>>>>>>>> really like that you're thinking about how to manage it in an
>>>>>>>> inclusive fashion.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I do have an opinion about creating sub-SIGS though - in my science
>>>>>>>> career I've seen multiple disciplines discover the same tooling a
>>>>>>>> few
>>>>>>>> times. So my hot take is 'avoid having discipline-specific
>>>>>>>> subgroups',
>>>>>>>> way better to let disciplinary cross-fertilisation happen ;)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Adam
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 29 Nov 2020 at 09:39, Andrew Jeffrey <aljeffrey83 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > Hi,
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > No problems, with everything going on post conference, elections,
>>>>>>>> and the upcoming holiday period we may need to leave this open for comment
>>>>>>>> for a little longer than normal. Happy to go with what people feel is
>>>>>>>> needed here.
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > John, regarding your thoughts on the membership I agree 100%, the
>>>>>>>> charter at the moment has a sentence stating the SIG should be "providing
>>>>>>>> membership avenues for people that may not be in a financial position to
>>>>>>>> pay a fee" perhaps we need more clarity around membership and what it
>>>>>>>> involves in the charter? To be clear, my thoughts are that keeping in the
>>>>>>>> spirit of OO the SIG should be available to everyone and no one should be
>>>>>>>> excluded from participating, on reflection the term "membership" might come
>>>>>>>> across as prohibitive. I'm sure we'll come up with something acceptable
>>>>>>>> through conversation here.
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > For context though it may be helpful to explain the intent behind
>>>>>>>> the idea of a "membership". The issues it aims to address are below:
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > There is some difficulty associated with organisations giving a
>>>>>>>> "donation", but purchasing something like a "membership" to a professional
>>>>>>>> user group seems to be acceptable and is easier justified in some
>>>>>>>> procurement processes.
>>>>>>>> > For individuals donating to QGIS helps the project but has little
>>>>>>>> influence on their QGIS experience, also individuals on the QGIS list have
>>>>>>>> indicated trouble participating in crowdfunding campaigns due to high
>>>>>>>> minimum pledges.
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > A QGIS SIG would allow us to receive money from interested
>>>>>>>> parties wanting to support QGIS in our region, pool the funds and then
>>>>>>>> spend as the SIG sees fit. The best part is the money will be spent on the
>>>>>>>> items scoped in our charter which is again relevant to users in our region.
>>>>>>>> For lack of a better term think of it as a "co-op" for the donations alot
>>>>>>>> of us already make on an ad-hoc basis. Ideally we would be looking to get a
>>>>>>>> majority of the membership from organisations that we know use QGIS to
>>>>>>>> support a bulk of this activity, and then people willing to make a personal
>>>>>>>> contribution would then add to that. Then if people can't make a personal
>>>>>>>> contribution that is also fine because they can assist in other ways.
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > That was the idea in justifying a membership fee. We will need to
>>>>>>>> offer something in return, for individuals that will be the professional
>>>>>>>> network and for organisations that will be recognition at this early stage
>>>>>>>> but as we progress this may evolve.
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > Thanks
>>>>>>>> > Andrew
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > On Sat, Nov 28, 2020 at 3:57 PM John Bryant <
>>>>>>>> johnwbryant at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> Andrew, thanks a lot for continuing to push this forward. It has
>>>>>>>> been a couple of months since I last looked at this, and I haven't really
>>>>>>>> had a detailed look at the SIG concept yet.
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> I'm 'out of the office' for the next few days, but would be
>>>>>>>> happy to join in this discussion when I get back, and have a proper chance
>>>>>>>> to refresh my memory and get up to speed on SIGs.
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> One brief thought, it feels like it would be good to consider a
>>>>>>>> free (or very inexpensive) tier of membership. I suspect many of us can't
>>>>>>>> justify (or can't afford) to spend much, but could contribute in other ways.
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> Cheers
>>>>>>>> >> John
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> On Fri, 27 Nov 2020, 9:46 am Andrew Jeffrey, <
>>>>>>>> aljeffrey83 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>> >>> Hi Adam,
>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>> >>> Thanks for the feedback.
>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>> >>> I agree the SIG shouldn't bring about any duplication of the
>>>>>>>> processes that the OO currently does. A SIG as defined in the guidelines
>>>>>>>> should be "enabling OSGeo Oceania members to interact, share knowledge,
>>>>>>>> organise events, and collaborate on a selected, targeted topic within the
>>>>>>>> scope of OSGeo Oceania". So a SIG should be complementary to the OO
>>>>>>>> function and allow the interested community members to drive engagement in
>>>>>>>> that area without the OO board having to do it all. Like you say though,
>>>>>>>> open communication between the SIG and the OO board is key in making sure
>>>>>>>> there is no overlap being introduced. Also to be clear the SIG isn’t
>>>>>>>> seeking “sponsorship” as such but we do want to be able to collect a
>>>>>>>> membership fee for people/orgs wanting to be involved, allowing them to
>>>>>>>> fund items that maybe other OO members don’t see as important. I don’t see
>>>>>>>> this taking away from conference sponsorship and this idea will ultimately
>>>>>>>> sink or swim depending on whether the SIG members have an appetite to fund
>>>>>>>> the items in our scope.
>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>> >>> As for the conflict of interest, to be honest I don't know the
>>>>>>>> answer in regards to how that should be dealt with. I think we need to add
>>>>>>>> something in the charter, would removing those people from the proposal and
>>>>>>>> voting process be enough? How does OO deal with this? I don’t want to rule
>>>>>>>> local devs out of working on this because they belong to the group, but we
>>>>>>>> also don’t want to become the entry point to company XYZ.
>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>> >>> Thanks for the feedback.
>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>> >>> Andrew
>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>> >>> On Fri, Nov 27, 2020 at 7:35 AM Adam Steer <
>>>>>>>> adam.d.steer at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>> Hey Andrew and all the QGIS SIG proposers
>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>> Thanks, I think this is a perfect use of OSGeo Oceania as a
>>>>>>>> backing
>>>>>>>> >>>> organisation :)
>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>> My only reservation with any SIG proposal is that effort isn't
>>>>>>>> >>>> duplicated about events and marketing, and also that a funding
>>>>>>>> from a
>>>>>>>> >>>> small pool of interested parties (relative to other parts of
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> >>>> world) is able to be effectively spread among the whole
>>>>>>>> community. For
>>>>>>>> >>>> an example it would be a bit awry to see a SIG gather a heap of
>>>>>>>> >>>> funding at the expense of conference sponsorships. I guess in
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> >>>> case the SIG could also sponsor conferences? This goes the
>>>>>>>> other way
>>>>>>>> >>>> too - the existence of a well connected SIG makes it easier
>>>>>>>> for OO to
>>>>>>>> >>>> fund a QGIS feature (for example) if it decides to do so.
>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>> I think clear, constant and open communication between OO and
>>>>>>>> the SIG
>>>>>>>> >>>> will make those concerns go away.
>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>> In writing this I did work my thoughts through to  a serious
>>>>>>>> question:
>>>>>>>> >>>> How will the SIG deal with conflicts of interest? A stated aim
>>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>>> >>>> SIG is to fund development, what will the SIG do if all the
>>>>>>>> key QGIS
>>>>>>>> >>>> developers in the region are also in the group of people making
>>>>>>>> >>>> decisions about buying developer time?
>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>> My only comment on the charter itself is that if you want, you
>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>> >>>> link to the existing Berlin Code of Conduct:
>>>>>>>> >>>> https://berlincodeofconduct.org/ - with which the upcoming OO
>>>>>>>> CoC
>>>>>>>> >>>> should be 100% compatible.
>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>> Adam
>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>> On Thu, 26 Nov 2020 at 04:37, Andrew Jeffrey <
>>>>>>>> aljeffrey83 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> >>>> >
>>>>>>>> >>>> > Hi All,
>>>>>>>> >>>> >
>>>>>>>> >>>> > The OSGeo Oceania board has approved an initiative for
>>>>>>>> members to form Special Interest Groups (SIGs) within the OO community.
>>>>>>>> >>>> >
>>>>>>>> >>>> > A SIG is a way for community members to collaborate around
>>>>>>>> common interests which in this case is QGIS.
>>>>>>>> >>>> >
>>>>>>>> >>>> > In establishing a SIG, the OO board requires that the group
>>>>>>>> proposing the SIG put forward a charter which outlines the Aim and Scope
>>>>>>>> under which the SIG will operate.
>>>>>>>> >>>> >
>>>>>>>> >>>> > Myself, Emma Hain, John Bryant, Nathan Woodrow and Nyall
>>>>>>>> Dawson would like to start a QGIS SIG which can be used to benefit QGIS
>>>>>>>> users in our community. To get things started we have come up with a
>>>>>>>> charter that we would like to make available for community consultation. As
>>>>>>>> this charter currently reflects our input we would like to put this out for
>>>>>>>> discussion to see if what we are proposing is on the right path for the
>>>>>>>> community. At the moment everyone with the link below has "comment"
>>>>>>>> permissions, but "edit" permissions can be granted on request if you would
>>>>>>>> like to get more involved and you're welcome to do so.
>>>>>>>> >>>> >
>>>>>>>> >>>> >
>>>>>>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1lrewntrC0N1r6mfZdo1AdPhe2qTEaN5hDA2pcL0mrvI/edit?usp=sharing
>>>>>>>> >>>> >
>>>>>>>> >>>> > I also just want to be upfront that this SIG is proposing
>>>>>>>> that there be a membership fee associated with the group. The funds raised
>>>>>>>> by the membership will be stored with the OO org and then used by the SIG
>>>>>>>> on items as scoped out in the charter. The idea with the membership is not
>>>>>>>> to "make money" but to pool our small contributions to give us better
>>>>>>>> "buying power" for lack of a better term. As a SIG within the OO org we can
>>>>>>>> participate in crowdfunding campaigns, engage a dev to develop a feature
>>>>>>>> important to us but might not be recognised as important to the larger QGIS
>>>>>>>> project, or engage a trainer to provide professional development via Zoom,
>>>>>>>> the types of things that are hard to do as individuals or as a user group
>>>>>>>> with no funds etc. The membership arrangement also allows us to offer
>>>>>>>> membership to organisations which will become a way for them to support
>>>>>>>> QGIS and their local QGIS community. Ideally, this is where a majority of
>>>>>>>> the funds would come from as we don't want an individual to be excluded due
>>>>>>>> to a "fee", which is also covered in the charter. I'm available as I'm sure
>>>>>>>> the other proposers are to discuss the intention of this further and in the
>>>>>>>> open on this list.
>>>>>>>> >>>> >
>>>>>>>> >>>> > Any questions feel free to ask or if you prefer to comment
>>>>>>>> on the charter that is fine too.
>>>>>>>> >>>> >
>>>>>>>> >>>> > I look forward to discussing this with you.
>>>>>>>> >>>> >
>>>>>>>> >>>> > Thanks
>>>>>>>> >>>> > Andrew
>>>>>>>> >>>> >
>>>>>>>> >>>> >
>>>>>>>> >>>> >
>>>>>>>> >>>> >
>>>>>>>> >>>> > --
>>>>>>>> >>>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the
>>>>>>>> Google Groups "QGIS Australia User Group" group.
>>>>>>>> >>>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails
>>>>>>>> from it, send an email to
>>>>>>>> australian-qgis-user-group+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>>>>>>>> >>>> > To view this discussion on the web, visit
>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/australian-qgis-user-group/CADTxF6bV6OicKcLveZsexfQ_gLULoFTpATV3iyjxWBswRyM_iA%40mail.gmail.com
>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>> --
>>>>>>>> >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the
>>>>>>>> Google Groups "QGIS Australia User Group" group.
>>>>>>>> >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from
>>>>>>>> it, send an email to
>>>>>>>> australian-qgis-user-group+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>>>>>>>> >>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit
>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/australian-qgis-user-group/CAFORoyh3xiAcvRrAWbNK%3DrH%2B0-DUhq1GZnVp08t8HX90R9tdKA%40mail.gmail.com
>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>> >>> --
>>>>>>>> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the
>>>>>>>> Google Groups "QGIS Australia User Group" group.
>>>>>>>> >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from
>>>>>>>> it, send an email to
>>>>>>>> australian-qgis-user-group+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>>>>>>>> >>> To view this discussion on the web, visit
>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/australian-qgis-user-group/CADTxF6ZUvSgCSuzn-ikrGNAKBmaQ5Mc84uCTbOeLSLqRtjfzew%40mail.gmail.com
>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> --
>>>>>>>> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the
>>>>>>>> Google Groups "QGIS Australia User Group" group.
>>>>>>>> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from
>>>>>>>> it, send an email to
>>>>>>>> australian-qgis-user-group+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>>>>>>>> >> To view this discussion on the web, visit
>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/australian-qgis-user-group/CAHY5hn8OAzyneschpsBa2XwifpKo47mFrWfwGafoDAOJjFir1Q%40mail.gmail.com
>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > --
>>>>>>>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the
>>>>>>>> Google Groups "QGIS Australia User Group" group.
>>>>>>>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>>>>>>>> send an email to
>>>>>>>> australian-qgis-user-group+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>>>>>>>> > To view this discussion on the web, visit
>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/australian-qgis-user-group/CADTxF6b8jpUOK8EeMyUnd3rYG9N_EAKtU%3D%2Bwao1ZZUHBHUw9aQ%40mail.gmail.com
>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>>>>>> Groups "QGIS Australia User Group" group.
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>>>>>>>> send an email to
>>>>>>>> australian-qgis-user-group+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit
>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/australian-qgis-user-group/CAFORoyiDubVGZybpYo_uQs_8m%2BF9-LKcKTWHtrNG41vT8Mf%2BmA%40mail.gmail.com
>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cameron Shorter
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Technical Writer, Google
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Oceania mailing list
>>>>>>>> Oceania at lists.osgeo.org
>>>>>>>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/oceania
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Alex Leith
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> m: 0419189050
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Oceania mailing list
>>>>>>>> Oceania at lists.osgeo.org
>>>>>>>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/oceania
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>>>>>> Groups "QGIS Australia User Group" group.
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>>>>>>>> send an email to
>>>>>>>> australian-qgis-user-group+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit
>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/australian-qgis-user-group/5BAC325B-3737-48E0-8BB3-DEA443E3AD37%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/australian-qgis-user-group/5BAC325B-3737-48E0-8BB3-DEA443E3AD37%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Oceania mailing list
>>>>>>>> Oceania at lists.osgeo.org
>>>>>>>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/oceania
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>>>>>> Groups "QGIS Australia User Group" group.
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>>>>>>>> send an email to
>>>>>>>> australian-qgis-user-group+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit
>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/australian-qgis-user-group/8A38D2B4-7014-4F98-96B7-F1C51FD5ADF2%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/australian-qgis-user-group/8A38D2B4-7014-4F98-96B7-F1C51FD5ADF2%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>>>> Groups "QGIS Australia User Group" group.
>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>>>>>> send an email to
>>>>>> australian-qgis-user-group+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit
>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/australian-qgis-user-group/CADTxF6Z4oWBv0P6arOBQHGc9_p%2BzXaZp4K3yWZ1%3DQGxyoZmKew%40mail.gmail.com
>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/australian-qgis-user-group/CADTxF6Z4oWBv0P6arOBQHGc9_p%2BzXaZp4K3yWZ1%3DQGxyoZmKew%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>>>> .
>>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>>> Groups "QGIS Australia User Group" group.
>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>>>> an email to australian-qgis-user-group+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>>>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit
>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/australian-qgis-user-group/CAHY5hn82AdqbF59EcXsoc-A-SWKK4GZkoMkL0NGpgmzbCHpF5Q%40mail.gmail.com
>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/australian-qgis-user-group/CAHY5hn82AdqbF59EcXsoc-A-SWKK4GZkoMkL0NGpgmzbCHpF5Q%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>>> .
>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>> Groups "QGIS Australia User Group" group.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>>> an email to australian-qgis-user-group+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit
>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/australian-qgis-user-group/CADTxF6YwH9ruDY%3DuF7aOvK7XffLs%2B89ZWfJnf84XUrrs90a74Q%40mail.gmail.com
>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/australian-qgis-user-group/CADTxF6YwH9ruDY%3DuF7aOvK7XffLs%2B89ZWfJnf84XUrrs90a74Q%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>> .
>>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "QGIS Australia User Group" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to australian-qgis-user-group+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/australian-qgis-user-group/CAHY5hn95pONHc1dyzGZThfhMs6iQFzab6VdR4ZO8ToSkbYrwAQ%40mail.gmail.com
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/australian-qgis-user-group/CAHY5hn95pONHc1dyzGZThfhMs6iQFzab6VdR4ZO8ToSkbYrwAQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>> .
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Oceania mailing list
>> Oceania at lists.osgeo.org
>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/oceania
>>
>
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