[OSGeo Oceania] new board starting soon and other personal considerations
John Bryant
johnwbryant at gmail.com
Mon Dec 2 17:43:51 PST 2024
Sorry - let me make it super clear that I'm not saying you've been an evil
board! I am totally sure that everyone has acted in good faith. I'm only
presenting it as a hypothetical reason why boards shouldn't be able to
impose eligibility requirements that aren't in the constitution. So please
understand, this isn't a criticism.
John
On Tue, 3 Dec 2024 at 09:31, eli <elipuccioni at gmail.com> wrote:
> As far as I understand, it is by law not possible anymore to be elected as
> director on a board in an Australian based company if the person doesn't
> have a valid director ID. They state explicitly that you must have a valid
> director id before being appointed. The person risks a fine of thousands
> (and the organisation too), and it's a risk we cannot take, or at least the
> majority of the board didn't want to take this year. We did in the past, as
> the law is from 2022 and we were still adjusting to it, but we need a good
> practice in place now, in my opinion. And moreover, we do have to follow
> the rules, not great if we try to cut corners! When the constitution was
> written, this requirement wasn't in place, that's why it hasn't been
> included, I think? But it's now quite an important rule and we need to come
> up with better solutions, but take it in consideration.
>
> I don't feel like we have been an 'evil' board trying to stop non
> Australian people to get aboard by putting an arbitrary requirement here,
> we just didn't realise in time how onerous - and expensive! - it is to even
> start the process in a tight timeframe. We need to do better, with timing
> and funding, but we cannot avoid this requirement.
>
> I have no idea what rescheduling an election would cost to the board
> operations, as it would need to be rescheduled in at least a couple or
> three months time, to give the people who failed to start the application
> the time and support to get their ID sorted. I am personally happy to take
> it in consideration, and I know a few other board members would agree, but
> it feels to me not fair for the people that have applied and have fulfilled
> all the steps. I think we need to address this very urgently, but for me it
> would be fairer for everyone, and more open and transparent, to fix it for
> next year and see if it improves participation from other countries than
> Australia.
>
> Il giorno mar 3 dic 2024 alle ore 14:06 John Bryant <johnwbryant at gmail.com>
> ha scritto:
>
>> Thanks Elisa & Alex, I appreciate your candour. I agree there are things
>> OO can do to make it easier. It's upsetting to learn three people agreed to
>> be nominated to work on behalf of our community, but weren't able to. I
>> understand everyone has acted in good faith with the best of intentions.
>>
>> I think there is a significant problem that needs to be addressed with
>> some urgency, that is whether the board actually has the right to impose
>> new eligibility requirements for nominations. The constitution basically
>> says that members are eligible for appointment if they are a member of OO
>> (s74), and that any member may nominate an eligible person (s79.3).
>>
>> The board is responsible for laying out and executing the process, but I
>> don't believe the board has the right to impose additional eligibility
>> requirements as part of this process. This makes sense, because an evil
>> board could impose arbitrary requirements to entrench themselves, by
>> excluding people they don't like (obviously not the intent here!).
>>
>> This very issue came up in the 2020 OO election
>> <https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/oceania/2020-September/002342.html>,
>> it was generally agreed that the board couldn't impose new eligibility
>> restrictions above what's in the constitution, and the suggested
>> restrictions were removed.
>>
>> If it were a moot point, it could be something to work on for next year,
>> but the apparent outcome is that 1) three people have been unable to
>> exercise their right to be nominated (assuming they're otherwise eligible),
>> and 2) the membership is unable to exercise its right to vote on legitimate
>> nominees.
>>
>> Perhaps one way to resolve this is to retrospectively strike the
>> eligibility requirement, accept the nominations, and reschedule an election.
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 3 Dec 2024 at 04:23, Alex Leith <alexgleith at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi John
>>>
>>> I agree with your interpretation, in that you only need to have applied
>>> for a director ID, not that you must hold one.
>>>
>>> We had three applicants from overseas, and none of the three were able
>>> to tell us that they had applied by the cutoff date in time, so the
>>> returning officer ruled them ineligible.
>>>
>>> For what it's worth, we discussed this at length, and thought about
>>> allowing them into the pool anyway, but it was voted on, and it was decided
>>> to take the recommendation of the returning officer, so we didn't need an
>>> election, since we had six candidates and six places.
>>>
>>> We discussed what to do differently next time, and there was a
>>> suggestion to have the election further after the conference, since we have
>>> a big push at the conference. And we talked about supporting potential
>>> candidates in their applications for a director ID, by offering to cover
>>> the costs of postage and possibly translation of documents.
>>>
>>> I think we need to do more to make it easier for a non-Australian to be
>>> on our Board, and I think our recommendations will go into the process
>>> documents for the next election.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> On Mon, 2 Dec 2024 at 06:42, John Bryant via Oceania <
>>> oceania at lists.osgeo.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks Elisa, as I mentioned on Slack, thanks so much for your
>>>> incredible year as chair, and I really enjoyed serving alongside you.
>>>>
>>>> Re Director ID, the government website says this: "If you plan to
>>>> become a director, you must apply for a director ID before you’re
>>>> appointed." It seems you don't need to have a DID in hand to be put
>>>> forward for nomination.
>>>>
>>>> I think we've heard it's harder for non-Australians to *obtain* a DID,
>>>> but the obligation is apparently only to *apply* before being
>>>> appointed. Also it doesn't sound like the obligation is on OO, but on the
>>>> individual.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe it would be more inclusive to leave it to people to apply only
>>>> *after* they have been elected (and before they are appointed), rather
>>>> than putting up a roadblock that may be unnecessary.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, 2 Dec 2024 at 06:32, eli via Oceania <oceania at lists.osgeo.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Dear all,
>>>>>
>>>>> As you have read in our secretary Renee’s email on Friday, we didn’t
>>>>> need elections this year as we received 6 amazing nominations for 6
>>>>> available vacancies in the Board. I would like to share with you all some
>>>>> very personal considerations about this (be aware: if it’s going to be a
>>>>> long email!)
>>>>>
>>>>> It’s great for me to see we have a full board for next year. I’m very
>>>>> happy to see both familiar faces and new people stepping up and deciding to
>>>>> sacrifice a bit of their time and energy to help grow our community.
>>>>> I personally want to thank Ponsyano and Renee for taking excellent
>>>>> care of this year’s nominations and election process, especially
>>>>> considering it was their first ride with it!
>>>>>
>>>>> My bestest wishes to Ana, Dani, and Nick for their first term as board
>>>>> members—I’m really looking forward to working with you! Also, thanks again
>>>>> to Alex, Ewen and Jonah for deciding to stick around for another term. Your
>>>>> work in the community is incredibly important, and we’re all glad you’ll be
>>>>> with us next year too.
>>>>>
>>>>> It has been a pleasure—and a challenge! —being the chair this year.
>>>>> Thanks for the trust you have given me and for the many supportive and
>>>>> encouraging messages you’ve sent: it feels great to know that you all care
>>>>> about the work we’re trying to do! Please don’t ever stop sending any kind
>>>>> of feedback; we can only learn from our errors if we are aware of them.
>>>>>
>>>>> Speaking of things that still don’t work, I want to address one that
>>>>> still worries me: the ASIC Director ID requirement for new directors. For
>>>>> those who aren’t aware, Australian rules require everyone applying for a
>>>>> director position to obtain a specific Director ID. This process is very
>>>>> easy, quick and straightforward for Australian citizens but lengthy and
>>>>> expensive for everyone else.
>>>>>
>>>>> As the current chair, I feel I have failed to find a viable solution
>>>>> for this year’s elections, which meant only Australian candidates could be
>>>>> successfully nominated. While I’m excited to work with the new board
>>>>> members, who are amazing and dedicated to the community, I feel that not
>>>>> making the process easier for people outside Australia has failed our
>>>>> founding principles of equality and diversification and it really upsets
>>>>> me. Oceania is full of incredibly rich culture, and an almost only
>>>>> Australian board is by far not a full representation of it, in my opinion.
>>>>>
>>>>> For this reason, I promise we will work harder to find a better
>>>>> solution or at least a workaround for next year. The resigning board has
>>>>> already started brainstorming interesting ideas, including opening
>>>>> nominations months before the elections and helping non-Australian
>>>>> candidates with the process, both through mentoring and covering any
>>>>> related expenses. You can get a better idea of what we’ve discussed in the
>>>>> last meeting’s minutes, which will be uploaded to the wiki this week.
>>>>>
>>>>> We still need to work on improving the process as much as possible,
>>>>> but rest assured we’re taking it very seriously. Of course, I am very
>>>>> interested in hearing any feedback or ideas you might have on this matter.
>>>>> I personally hope that those who couldn’t complete their nomination
>>>>> applications due to the strict timeline we imposed (and I deeply apologize
>>>>> for this) and the complexity of the ID process will still be interested in
>>>>> supporting us and trying again next year, as well as all the other
>>>>> non-Australian members who were put off by the process. We need all of
>>>>> Oceania to make OSGeo Oceania work!
>>>>>
>>>>> Have a lovely end of the year, enjoy the well-deserved holiday break,
>>>>> and to the new members, welcome aboard! I’m looking forward to our first
>>>>> board meeting together on Friday, December 13th!
>>>>>
>>>>> Ciao, Elisa
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Oceania mailing list
>>>>> Oceania at lists.osgeo.org
>>>>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/oceania
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Oceania mailing list
>>>> Oceania at lists.osgeo.org
>>>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/oceania
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> *Alex Leith*
>>> m: +61 419 189 050
>>> https://auspatious.com
>>>
>>
>
> --
> Potrebbe andar peggio...potrebbe piovere!
>
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