[OSGeo Oceania] FOSS4G Hobart - Elephant in the room ESRI

Wed Nov 20 17:07:51 PST 2024

Hi all,

Even though I did not attend the conference this year I was definitely a
bit taken aback when I saw ESRI as a sponsor and completely understand the
feelings of those who have been burned not only by regional distributors,
but also strong ESRI advocates. However, I believe our community
(especially young and recent graduates) is made up of many 'converted' ESRI
users, and in some cases we're basically preaching to the choir. I see this
as a positive step, where it opens the opportunity to build a bridge to
many individuals on the other side who are just as passionate about their
work and looking to belong to a community as awesome as ours. At the end of
the day, we all utilise what works for us, whether open or commercial. I
definitely sound naive, but as Eli has mentioned, I've also learned to
value and trust individuals over large (and sometimes scary) organisations,
and I think it would be a step back to close our community off to
organisations such as ESRI, which could also make individuals associated
feel unwelcome.

This discussion is incredibly valuable, and I hope it continues as it would
be useful for the organising committee for next year's global FOSS4G in
Auckland!

Vinaka,
Carrol

On Thu, 21 Nov 2024 at 11:12, eli via Oceania <oceania at lists.osgeo.org>
wrote:

> Thanks to Andrew and everyone else who has contributed to this discussion.
> It seems to have stirred quite a reaction in the community, and it’s
> important to address it.
>
> As Alex pointed out, the committee's decisions are somewhat separate from
> the board. That said, I personally supported this initiative. Like many of
> you, I’ve been ‘burned’ by ESRI regional distributors, who in some
> countries actively try (and sometimes succeed) to poach potential clients.
> This creates significant damage to small companies like mine, all for a few
> thousand dollars that likely don’t even cover their Christmas party
> expenses.
>
> However, I was thrilled to have Kate Fickas as one of our (all female)
> keynote speakers. In my opinion, she’s an amazing person who genuinely
> cares about community building, as demonstrated through her Ladies of
> Landsat group and her ongoing activism on social media. She’s also a
> long-time friend of FOSS4G OO, having been a keynote speaker at our online
> 2021 conference, waking up at an ungodly hour to help us deliver quality
> content during a challenging time. It’s also worth noting that she was
> selected and agreed to be a keynote speaker for the Hobar conference before
> anyone considered having ESRI as a sponsor.
>
> From what I understand, Kate played a pivotal role in encouraging ESRI to
> sponsor the conference, as one of her roles is community building. I
> recognise that some may view this as an attempt from ESRI to interfere in
> our community, and I don’t want to be naïve and discard that possibility.
> Nevertheless, I tend to value and trust individuals over large
> organizations. My experience has shown that we shouldn’t judge people’s
> intentions and behaviour based solely on the companies they work for.
>
> We have talented, passionate members in our community who work for
> ‘questionable’ big companies, and we embrace them. If we cut off ESRI,
> should we also discuss those other companies? Perhaps, and I’d be happy to
> contribute to that conversation. But if we accept contributions from other
> companies, why not try to build a bridge with ESRI, which is undeniably
> doing good things with GDAL and in the OSM world? Additionally, having ESRI
> at our conference could attract to the OS world people and countries that
> primarily use ESRI software, like the Cook Islands.
>
> For these reasons, I was pleased that the committee decided to explore
> this bridge-building opportunity at the conference. I thoroughly enjoyed
> Kate’s keynote address and our discussions, as she had many interesting and
> practical ideas for empowering specific members of our community, including
> women and non-native English speakers.
>
> That said, what matters most to me is our community. I want it to thrive,
> grow, and feel comfortable and safe above all else. I’m more than willing
> to advocate against ESRI sponsorship in the future if the majority feels
> it’s a threat rather than an opportunity. OO exists because of all of you,
> and your needs always come first in our decisions. Let’s continue this
> discussion and see where it leads us.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Elisa
>
>
> Il giorno gio 21 nov 2024 alle ore 10:32 Alex Leith via Oceania <
> oceania at lists.osgeo.org> ha scritto:
>
>> Hi Andrew
>>
>> Thanks for raising this, and I'm glad we're having the discussion.
>>
>> The local organising committee for FOSS4G SotM Oceania operates
>> independently of the Board, even though some on the committee may be Board
>> members. And as a committee, we talked a lot about decisions on keynotes,
>> making sure we were bringing the right influence to the event, the right
>> "vibe". We talked less about sponsors, really, and that was mostly
>> delegated to the sponsorship team (which was mostly Nick Forbes-Smith and
>> me).
>>
>> So, there are two separate items here, as you note. Kate Fickas was
>> invited as a keynote speaker because she's been an incredible advocate for
>> women and I think her keynote was really good. She spoke about specific
>> initiatives, like how she worked with others in the USGS to get Virginia T.
>> Norwood recognition as the person who actually invented Landsat!
>>
>> The Esri sponsorship came up separately, though I think Kate may have
>> encouraged it. And Esri were able to justify their sponsorship internally
>> due to their support for the SotM component of our conference. Kate
>> acknowledged in her keynote that Esri uses open source software in their
>> applications. It's worth noting that Esri supported the GDAL Barnraising
>> efforts in a significant way (https://gdalbarn.com/.)
>>
>> Now, I know that some have been burned by Esri resellers doing things
>> that are not good, and there's a lot of hard feelings around. I don't
>> discount that at all. But I feel as a community we should keep the gate
>> open. We need support from business to make the conference happen, and
>> we'll need it for the global event next year in a big way. Other
>> organisations that may sponsor may or may have imperfect reputations in
>> some areas, but good people work in all of these organisations. I believe
>> it’s reasonable to welcome sponsorship from any organisation, provided they
>> agree to our code of conduct and other reasonable conditions set by the
>> community.
>>
>> My honest personal take is that we should expect sponsors to not be
>> anti-open source and not be anti-competitive. But I think we should hold
>> ourselves to similar standards. The era of militant anti-proprietary
>> software movements has largely passed, and in many ways, we’ve already won.
>> As I mentioned during the “pitch a future” session at the conference, the
>> open movement feels inevitable. Microsoft’s journey from labeling open
>> source a “virus” to embracing it wholeheartedly is a prime example. Should
>> we have rejected Microsoft's contributions to past events?
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> On Thu, 21 Nov 2024 at 02:53, Andrew Jeffrey via Oceania <
>> oceania at lists.osgeo.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> I hope everyone that was able to attend the FOSS4G SOTM Oceania Hobart
>>> conference had a great time. I'm still very much bummed that I wasn't able
>>> to make it down there and my only start at the OO conference remains
>>> Melbourne in 2018. I plan on improving my numbers as best I can into the
>>> future, but from the outside looking in, it looked like all those that
>>> attended had a blast - well done conference committee and OO board.
>>>
>>> I am writing to the list because I have a question that has been bugging
>>> me ever since I talked to a colleague who attended the event. That question
>>> is "What's the deal with ESRI being a sponsor?". I have genuine
>>> curiosity when it comes to the decision process in having them on board. I
>>> understand these things take money to put on and the conference needs to
>>> turn a profit, a healthy conference makes for a healthy OO which allows the
>>> organisation to do many of the great things that they do. However, I think
>>> this sponsorship from ESRI should be reconsidered in the future.
>>>
>>> Just to be clear, I am not opposed to speakers who work for ESRI coming
>>> and talking, from all reports the keynote from Kate Fickas was amazing (as
>>> were all the keynotes from what I hear) and these are the industry people
>>> that we all crave to hear from - top job in landing that line up! But as
>>> for sponsorship I feel that ESRI is putting their brand on a community that
>>> a lot of us turned to when looking for refuge from them.
>>>
>>> I acknowledge that my opinion on this is biased as a QGIS advocate and
>>> trainer. But something about this just feels off! I don't see what's in it
>>> for the FOSS4G community having ESRI involved in our conferences, to me it
>>> looks more of a cheap way for them to buy some good news without doing
>>> anything to improve the relationship with the FOSS4G community.
>>>
>>> However, I know I wasn't there, and I could be wrong about the whole
>>> thing. Maybe the overwhelming opinion is that it's a good thing and this is
>>> a step in the right direction? I would be interested in hearing what people
>>> think and even hearing from someone on the conference organising committee
>>> that has more knowledge about this. Is this something the conference would
>>> do again? Is there a limit to their involvement? What would have happened
>>> if they were a platinum sponsor and got the primary logo placement + verbal
>>> mention at opening and closing of the event?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Andrew
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Oceania mailing list
>>> Oceania at lists.osgeo.org
>>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/oceania
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *Alex Leith*
>> m: +61 419 189 050
>> https://auspatious.com
>> _______________________________________________
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>> Oceania at lists.osgeo.org
>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/oceania
>>
>
>
> --
> Potrebbe andar peggio...potrebbe piovere!
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