[Live-demo] Some rough metrics about OSGeo-Live use

Stefan Steiniger sstein at geo.uzh.ch
Sat Jan 12 11:06:30 PST 2013 

Hi all,

I am also in favour of any smaller LiveDVD version, that fits on 4GB or 
less.

I am not sure how it is for most of you, but downloading eve 2G isn't an 
easy thing. Especially if you consider countries in South America and 
Africa or South-East Asia, having a "bold" connection to download 2-4GB 
should not be seen as given. But well if this list is going to decide 
that one focuses on "Westernish" users, then so be it.

cheers, from Chile (although my home connection here is fairly good, but 
2GB makes me wait still an hour or two), and connection reliability is 
another issue)
stefan

Am 12.01.13 11:49, schrieb Jim Klassen:
> I saw this asked before, but didn't see an answer.
>
> What's the problem with using DL DVD±Rs to up the DVD size constraint?  Maybe the writers/disks are less common than I think, but nearly all of the machines near me newer than 2006 that can write a DVD±R can also write a DL DVD±R.  Now, I have seen many of the newest machines that have no optical drive at all.
>
> It certainly good to be able to hand out the DVDs at our workshop at FOSS4G in Denver.  Additionally, for a couple of local conferences, we ended up producing and handing out DVDs instead of USBs because of cost.  The DVDs attracted a lot of attention and interest, especially from people not familiar with FOSS.  However, my experience in practically trying to work from the DVD during the workshop was that it required patience.  I had previously forgotten that optical media hasn't seen the same orders of magnitude speed increases as hard-drives and SSDs (especially over many short reads with intervening seeks).
>
> Jim
>
> On Jan 12, 2013, at 12:05 AM, Cameron Shorter wrote:
>
>> There has been discussion about moving from DVD to 8 Gig USB distribution for OSGeo-Live in order to create space for extra datasets and future applications.
>>
>> I'm nervous to move away from the DVD as our primary form of distribution for at least a couple of years, as it is still by far the most used version of OSGeo-Live. This is largely due to conference organisors erring toward the cheaper option of a DVD instead of a USB.
>>
>> Here are some rough metrics, which I've derived (partly from an educated guess) from:
>> http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Live_GIS_History
>>
>> For the year of 2012:
>> * OSGeo-Live made a presence at 45 spatial events around the world.
>>
>> * Most events made use of a variant of the OSGeo-Live presentation.
>>
>> * ~ 3,000 DVDs were handed out at ~ 20 of these events, often to all participants
>>
>> * ~ 300 USBs were handed out
>>
>> * The DVD was used in ~ 20 workshops
>> * The VM was used in ~ 30 workshops
>> * The USB was used in ~ 3 workshops
>>
>>
>> On 12/01/13 05:17, Alex Mandel wrote:
>>> How common are dual layer DVD players/burners? The might work for
>>> production runs from a pro company but be almost impossible for a
>>> regular user who manages to download the file.
>>>
>>> Also, we have many users who already struggle with being able to
>>> download 3.5 GB in a reasonable amount of time.
>>>
>>> Keep the ideas coming though, we will have to make a decision about what
>>> to do at some point. Personally, I still have the goal of getting
>>> everything to debian style packaging, which means we can ship a smaller
>>> selection and give people the ability to download more stuff if they
>>> want to add on.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Alex
>>>
>>> On 01/11/2013 06:40 AM, Beccati, Alan wrote:
>>>> Hi Barend,
>>>>
>>>> Probably an uninformed question but what is wrong with 8GB DVDs?
>>>>
>>>> Alan
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________________
>>>> From:live-demo-bounces at lists.osgeo.org  [live-demo-bounces at lists.osgeo.org] on behalf ofb.j.kobben at utwente.nl  [b.j.kobben at utwente.nl]
>>>> Sent: 11 January 2013 10:13
>>>> To: Baumann, Peter;live-demo at lists.osgeo.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [Live-demo] "big" data sets on OSGeo Live
>>>>
>>>> No, I guess steve Jobs didn't like it ;-)
>>>>
>>>> But seriously, putting the LiveDVD only on a 8Gb stick would seriously
>>>> diminish its worth for people who use it in education. You want to be able
>>>> to carry something to workshops and courses that you know will start up
>>>> (almost) everywhere, and is not too costly to give away on a regular basis
>>>> to larger groups. The DVD image is great for that, and I strongly urge you
>>>> to maintain one.
>>>> Which artifact to give away at FOSS4G conferences is another story I
>>>> guess, but please make sure there is an ISO out there to make a useful
>>>> DVD.
>>>>
>>>> Barend
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 10-01-13 23:15, "Peter Baumann"<p.baumann at jacobs-university.de>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> wow, a Mac can't do that?? I don't even hcarry a DVD drive with me any
>>>>> longer on
>>>>> my Kubuntu box. Space for a second battery... :)
>>>>>
>>>>> On 01/10/2013 11:02 PM,b.j.kobben at utwente.nl  wrote:
>>>>>> But you can start up anything from a DVD and many things wont start
>>>>> >from USB (e.g. my Mac)
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Barend Köbben (Senior Lecturer)
>>>>>> ITC - University of Twente,
>>>>>> Faculty of Geo-Information Science and Earth Observation
>>>>>> PO Box 217, 7500AE Enschede (The Netherlands)
>>>>>> +31-(0)53 4874 253
>>>>>> ________________________________________
>>>>>> From:live-demo-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
>>>>>> [live-demo-bounces at lists.osgeo.org] on behalf of Peter Baumann
>>>>>> [p.baumann at jacobs-university.de]
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 22:57
>>>>>> To: Angelos Tzotsos
>>>>>> Cc:live-demo at lists.osgeo.org
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Live-demo] "big" data sets on OSGeo Live
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So making the offer official :) - rasdaman can gladly sponsor the price
>>>>>> difference between 4 and 8 GB for the 500+ sticks needed for FOSS4G.
>>>>>> -Peter
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 01/10/2013 10:53 PM, Angelos Tzotsos wrote:
>>>>>>> Another thing that was brought up was the possibility to use 8GB USB
>>>>>>> drives
>>>>>>> for FOSS4G, which would mean that the mini iso could go up to 4.4G to
>>>>>>> fit on
>>>>>>> the DVD and the full iso (with the installers) would fit on the USB
>>>>>>> drive.
>>>>>>> Can this extra cost be covered somehow?
>>>>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 01/10/2013 11:47 PM, Angelos Tzotsos wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi Peter and thanks for bringing this topic here.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It would be great to have more data space and perhaps we can save
>>>>>>>> some space
>>>>>>>> if we track which projects use non common data-sets.
>>>>>>>>   From the IRC discussion there was a thought to include a
>>>>>>>> hyperspectral
>>>>>>>> dataset so that rasdaman, OTB, OSSIM, EOxServer and GRASS to use in
>>>>>>>> common.
>>>>>>>> Any thoughts on that? Should we play safe with free MODIS dataset or
>>>>>>>> is there
>>>>>>>> another suggestion? Would it be ok if we limit this to ~50MB size or
>>>>>>>> would we
>>>>>>>> need more? I know this is not enough for a good remote sensing
>>>>>>>> dataset, but
>>>>>>>> we are short on disk space currently.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I liked the idea of using some web services for demo purposes in
>>>>>>>> addition to
>>>>>>>> data included in the disk as long as there is a notice to the user
>>>>>>>> that those
>>>>>>>> are available only with internet connection.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> About projects mentioned:
>>>>>>>> MapGuide is actually not included in the disk due to that large
>>>>>>>> footprint
>>>>>>>> (caused by mono dependency).
>>>>>>>> Marble in large because its dependencies for Qt bring in large parts
>>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>>> KDE libraries.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We definitely need to hear more from the projects on this!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>> Angelos
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi listers,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> as space is running short on the ISO we need to reconsider sizings.
>>>>>>>>> In
>>>>>>>>> today's OSGel Live chat I was tasked to initiate this discussion.
>>>>>>>>> Current
>>>>>>>>> disk footprint of each application is available from
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Al9zh8DjmU_RdGIzd0VLLTBpQ
>>>>>>>>> VJuNVlHMlBWSDhKLXc#gid=13
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Top riders currently:
>>>>>>>>> - mapguide: 550mb
>>>>>>>>> - marble: 300 mb (includes disk caching!)
>>>>>>>>> - grass >250mb
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> One way of saving space is to enlarge it (ie, go to 8 GB) which is
>>>>>>>>> unclear
>>>>>>>>> due to some unresolved questions; another one is to deflate unused
>>>>>>>>> datasets,
>>>>>>>>> a third one to share data among applications.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Can I ask all those with 3-digit disk hunger to chime into this
>>>>>>>>> discussion.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> thanks,
>>>>>>>>> Peter
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Dr. Peter Baumann
>>>>>>     - Professor of Computer Science, Jacobs University Bremen
>>>>>>       www.faculty.jacobs-university.de/pbaumann
>>>>>>       mail:p.baumann at jacobs-university.de
>>>>>>       tel: +49-421-200-3178, fax: +49-421-200-493178
>>>>>>     - Executive Director, rasdaman GmbH Bremen (HRB 26793)
>>>>>>       www.rasdaman.com, mail:baumann at rasdaman.com
>>>>>>       tel: 0800-rasdaman, fax: 0800-rasdafax, mobile: +49-173-5837882
>>>>>> "Si forte in alienas manus oberraverit hec peregrina epistola incertis
>>>>>> ventis dimissa, sed Deo commendata, precamur ut ei reddatur cui soli
>>>>>> destinata, nec preripiat quisquam non sibi parata." (mail disclaimer, AD
>>>>>> 1083)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Live-demo mailing list
>>>>>> Live-demo at lists.osgeo.org
>>>>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/live-demo
>>>>>> http://live.osgeo.org
>>>>>> http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Live_GIS_Disc
>>>>> --
>>>>> Dr. Peter Baumann
>>>>>   - Professor of Computer Science, Jacobs University Bremen
>>>>>     www.faculty.jacobs-university.de/pbaumann
>>>>>     mail:p.baumann at jacobs-university.de
>>>>>     tel: +49-421-200-3178, fax: +49-421-200-493178
>>>>>   - Executive Director, rasdaman GmbH Bremen (HRB 26793)
>>>>>     www.rasdaman.com, mail:baumann at rasdaman.com
>>>>>     tel: 0800-rasdaman, fax: 0800-rasdafax, mobile: +49-173-5837882
>>>>> "Si forte in alienas manus oberraverit hec peregrina epistola incertis
>>>>> ventis dimissa, sed Deo commendata, precamur ut ei reddatur cui soli
>>>>> destinata, nec preripiat quisquam non sibi parata." (mail disclaimer, AD
>>>>> 1083)
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>> http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Live_GIS_Disc
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Live-demo mailing list
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>>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/live-demo
>>>> http://live.osgeo.org
>>>> http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Live_GIS_Disc
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Live-demo mailing list
>>> Live-demo at lists.osgeo.org
>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/live-demo
>>> http://live.osgeo.org
>>> http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Live_GIS_Disc
>>
>>
>> --
>> Cameron Shorter
>> Geospatial Solutions Manager
>> Tel: +61 (0)2 8570 5050
>> Mob: +61 (0)419 142 254
>>
>> Think Globally, Fix Locally
>> Geospatial Solutions enhanced with Open Standards and Open Source
>> http://www.lisasoft.com
>>
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>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/live-demo
>> http://live.osgeo.org
>> http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Live_GIS_Disc
>
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