[postgis-users] RE: zigGIS Usage Experiences

Wed Nov 29 07:11:05 PST 2006

zigGIS in fact is not a custom layer.  It's an entirely new
FeatureClass with it's on FeatureWorkspace and all the other classes
necessary to do this.  This was done so that I COULD allow for
editing.  For whatever reason, though, ArcGIS always complains when I
start an edit sessions on the PostGisWorkspace.  I spent probably a
month and a half trying to find what exactly it was that ArcGIS was
looking for to consider my PostGisWorkspace as editable.  You might
even find an EDN question I posted about it and it garnered no useful
feedback.

Because of that problem, indeed, my intention was to do a sorta hybrid
that you mention.  The user would initiate a check-out of the shapes
about to be edited.  Those would quickly be exported as a true
shapefile, shipped across the network, and stored to a temp location
on the editor's machine.  Once the edits were done, the shapefile
would be shipped back across the network and imported in an
intelligent way.  The nice thing about this approach is the editing is
occurring on a native shapefile with, obviously, native support.

But I came on hard times and had to get a full time job and drop my
consulting business.  It sucks, but that's life.  I would be happier
than a clam if I could get zigGIS work funded!

-Abe

On 11/29/06, Paolo Corti <pcorti at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hello Abe
> I would with pleasure continue your work, but if -like it seems- there is
> not chance from your custom layer implementation to get access to the ArcMap
> editor tools (I also disagree with writing custom tools) why not to try the
> other approach with OLE DB that -according to Esri- should let full
> read/write environment (there is a sample OLE DB OGIS for personal GDB)?
> Another approach could be to write an hybrid ZigGis/PgArc software: read
> PostGis with ZigGis approach, and editing data with PgArc approach, in a
> proxy shapefile fashion.
> What I want to say i point maybe better with a sample: the user reads data
> as a custom layer, when he decide to edit data, on the background, a
> shapefile is created and the user can edit this proxy shape and then check
> in the edit changes to PostGis when is over.
> Let me know if you are interested in contributing with me to let ZigGis to
> also write PostGis data
> best regards
> Paolo
>
>
> Abe Gillespie wrote:
> >
> > Right, and one of my goals was to use the built-in ArcGIS editor since
> > it has all the functionality needed AND is already familiar to the
> > ESRI crowd.
> >
> > As far as the OLE DB provider ... I'm almost positive you can write a
> > provider in C#.  The main interop layer that ArcGIS uses is COM and C#
> > speaks it fluently.  It's just a matter of using the various .Net COM
> > class attributes.  However, there was some reason I discounted the OLE
> > DB provider.
> >
> > Besides ... why not just piggy back on all the work that has already been
> > done?
> >
> > -Abe
> >
> > On 11/29/06, Paolo Corti <pcorti at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Yes looks like a limit of custom layers, according to Esri docs
> >>
> >> If you want to implement edit for custom layer looks like you have to
> >> implement custom edit tool, there is a sample with xy file custom layer
> >> on
> >> ArcObjects on line for implementing custom layer editing tool. Having
> >> said
> >> that, from the other2 approaches: Plug in data source is read-only, so
> >> the
> >> only viable solution would remain OGIS OLE DB Providers, but looks like
> >> it
> >> is developable only with ATL c++
> >>
> >> I recall the approaches here:
> >> 1) Custom Layers
> >> 2) Plug in data sources
> >> 3) OGIS compliant OLE DB providers
> >>
> >> best regards
> >> Paolo Corti
> >> http://www.paolocorti.net
> >>
> >>
> >> Abe Gillespie wrote:
> >> >
> >> > I agree.  And I even initially went down the route of a custom layer.
> >> > I think it fell short right about when I started exploring editing
> >> > capabilities ... IIRC it's not possible with a custom layer.  I also
> >> > explored the OLEDB data source and that had its restrictions somewhere
> >> > too.
> >> >
> >> > -Abe
> >> >
> >> > On 11/28/06, joshua.uyehara at syngenta.com <joshua.uyehara at syngenta.com>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >> Of all of the approaches so far, ZigGIS is the conceptually the
> >> >> 'cleanest', as it is going the route of a full feature class adapter
> >> >> implementation (the custom layer approach), but it also requires the
> >> >> greatest amount of work, as you have to eventually implement the
> >> >> functionality exposed by about a dozen interfaces.
> >> >>
> >> >> pgArc is great for single users, but you run into problems when you
> >> need
> >> >> concurrent access, or relationships with other tables in your
> >> database.
> >> >> The same problems would plague the toolbox approach (which I assume
> >> >> would basically be a front-end to shp2pgsql and pgsql2shp).
> >> >>
> >> >> That's not to say that the pgArc or toolbox approaches aren't worth
> >> >> pursuing.  They can probably meet some specific needs much faster than
> >> >> ZigGIS will be able to.
> >> >>
> >> >> Joshua Uyehara
> >> >> joshua.uyehara at syngenta.com
> >> >> Office: +1 808 337 1408 ext 34
> >> >> Cell: +1 808 346 5185
> >> >>
> >> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> >> From: postgis-users-bounces at postgis.refractions.net
> >> >> [mailto:postgis-users-bounces at postgis.refractions.net] On Behalf Of
> >> >> Bruce Rindahl
> >> >> Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 9:34 AM
> >> >> To: 'PostGIS Users Discussion'
> >> >> Cc: 'Shaun Kolomeitz'; 'Tyler Mitchell'
> >> >> Subject: RE: [postgis-users] RE: zigGIS Usage Experiences
> >> >>
> >> >> General discussion :)
> >> >>
> >> >> I am using pgArc for my PostGIS/ArcMap connection.  It does both
> >> >> read/write with some bugs.  I hope to post the changes to 9.x soon on
> >> >> the pgArc site.
> >> >>
> >> >> There is also another effort at:
> >> >> http://datashare.gis.unbc.ca/transhape/
> >> >> that uses a different approach.
> >> >>
> >> >> I looked at zigGIS and passed only because I don't program in C#.
> >> >>
> >> >> Finally, Would there be any interest in a ArcToolbox version of
> >> >> PostGIS/ArcMap ??  I have done a lot of work on toolboxes and think I
> >> >> could get a proof of concept going pretty soon.  Advantages would be
> >> >> Python as a scripting language, the GUI is drag and drop and the tools
> >> >> could be modular (One for read, one for append, one for update, etc).
> >> >> No compiling would be necessary and the scripts could be used in Model
> >> >> Builder.  Comments??
> >> >>
> >> >> Bruce Rindahl
> >> >>
> >> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> >> From: postgis-users-bounces at postgis.refractions.net
> >> >> [mailto:postgis-users-bounces at postgis.refractions.net] On Behalf Of
> >> >> Paolo Corti
> >> >> Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 12:02 PM
> >> >> To: postgis-users at postgis.refractions.net
> >> >> Subject: Re: [postgis-users] RE: zigGIS Usage Experiences
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Yes Abe
> >> >> I have seen your 3ed at support.esri.com no one seemed to help you I
> >> am
> >> >> sorry
> >> >>
> >> >> Have you checked out these 3 alternatives at ArcObjects help (under
> >> >> extending arcobjects)?
> >> >> 1) Custom Layers
> >> >> 2) Plug in data sources
> >> >> 3) OGIS compliant OLE DB providers
> >> >>
> >> >> Plug in is not applicable (it is read only), but the other 2 are
> >> viable
> >> >> Custom Layers also from .NET I was investigating if also OGIS OLE DB
> >> >> could be developed in .NET (in the Help is written only VC++ realistic
> >> >> for implementation, but maybe this comment is obsolete now)
> >> >>
> >> >> in any case,
> >> >> congratulations for your great job, even if ZigGis do not write ;-)
> >> >>
> >> >> Paolo
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Abe Gillespie wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Sorry, zigGIS does not write.  That, of course, is the "Holy Grail"
> >> of
> >> >>
> >> >> > these efforts.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > -Abe
> >> >> >
> >> >> > On 11/28/06, Paolo Corti <pcorti at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Hello Joshua
> >> >> >> and thanks for the workaround, I will test it as ASAP It is very
> >> >> >> possibly that we could join to make some modification at ZigGis, as
> >> >> >> far as I would like in my spare time to write a connector for
> >> PostGis
> >> >>
> >> >> >> for ArcMap.
> >> >> >> First I was looking at PgArc (I also migrated that at ArcObjects
> >> 9),
> >> >> >> but I think the best approach is like ZigGis does, without a proxy
> >> >> >> shapefile, but directly reading the data.
> >> >> >> I have one more question, before going on.
> >> >> >> In this mailing list it was claimed, I think just from Abe, that
> >> >> >> ZigGis can read and also WRITE PostGis data. Is this correct?
> >> Because
> >> >>
> >> >> >> from what you are writing seems that ZigGis can just read and not
> >> >> >> write, and maybe I could be not interested in continuing using
> >> >> >> ZigGis.
> >> >> >> In fact I have decided to write in my spare time a full Read/Write
> >> >> >> PostGis connector for ArcMap. But before doing that I would like to
> >> >> >> deeply investigate if ZigGis already does the job.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Best regards
> >> >> >> Paolo Corti
> >> >> >> http://www.paolocorti.net
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> joshua.uyehara wrote:
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Hey Paolo,
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Abe isn't working on it anymore, but I have been occasionally
> >> >> >> > plugging away at it myself.  The problem with adding the layer in
> >> >> >> > ArcMap is due to a minor bug.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > ZigGIS pulls the geometry column data from PostGIS in its native
> >> >> >> > binary format and passes it to ArcMap.  Unfortunately, PostGIS'
> >> >> >> > internal
> >> >> >> binary
> >> >> >> > format is not identical to the expected wkb format, so ArcMap
> >> >> >> > silently ignores it and basically treats the table as a
> >> >> >> > feature-less object class.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > One quick workaround is to create a view of the table that
> >> converts
> >> >>
> >> >> >> > the geometry column with asbinary(), and then manually add the
> >> >> >> > necessary entry to the geometry_columns table.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > E.g.,
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > CREATE VIEW geom_table_view AS SELECT asbinary(geom_column) as
> >> >> >> > geom_column, column2, column3, FROM geom_table; INSERT INTO
> >> >> >> > geometry_columns (f_table_schema, f_table_name,
> >> f_geometry_column,
> >> >> >> > coord_dimension, srid, type) VALUES
> >> >> >> >       ('public', 'geom_table_view', 'geom_column', 2, -1,
> >> >> >> > 'MULTIPOLYGON');
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Change schema, table, column names, srid, etc. to match your
> >> table,
> >> >> >> then
> >> >> >> > specify the view as the table to be opened with ZigGIS.  It's an
> >> >> >> > ugly kludge, but I haven't had the time to fix the problem in
> >> >> >> > ZigGIS itself yet.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Many of the feature class functionality hasn't been implemented
> >> >> >> > yet, so you can't do much besides display the features.  I'm
> >> >> >> > planning to add features to ZigGIS as I need them for work, but I
> >> >> >> > can't give you any timelines on it, as I'm swamped with other
> >> stuff
> >> >> at the moment.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Hope that helped,
> >> >> >> > Joshua Uyehara
> >> >> >> > joshua.uyehara at syngenta.com
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> >> >> > From: postgis-users-bounces at postgis.refractions.net
> >> >> >> > [mailto:postgis-users-bounces at postgis.refractions.net] On Behalf
> >> Of
> >> >>
> >> >> >> > Paolo Corti
> >> >> >> > Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 6:46 AM
> >> >> >> > To: postgis-users at postgis.refractions.net
> >> >> >> > Subject: Re: [postgis-users] zigGIS Usage Experiences
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Hello Abe
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > you made a great job with your ZigGis! The ArcObjects code is
> >> >> amazing!
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > maybe you can give me a help
> >> >> >> > I compiled your code for using it with ArcGis 9 (i made some
> >> little
> >> >>
> >> >> >> > modifications at the code to get this) and .NET 2.0 It compiled
> >> >> >> > fine, but when I start ArcMap and I add a PostGIS layer, it adds
> >> >> >> > the layer on the TOC but nothing is showed/drawed on the map.
> >> >> >> > Looks like geometries are not read from the shape column.
> >> >> >> > I am wondering if you are still on this project, and maybe you
> >> >> >> > could give me some help, or if I am on my own and must deeply
> >> >> >> > investigate/debug myself the code in order to find what is not
> >> >> >> > going properly
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > best regards
> >> >> >> > Paolo Corti
> >> >> >> > GIS Developer
> >> >> >> > http://www.paolocorti.net
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Abe Gillespie wrote:
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> Sorry for the cross post, but the zigGIS list only has 9
> >> >> >> >> subscribers with a ton more downloads than that.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> I'm curious about any experiences people are having using or
> >> even
> >> >> >> >> *trying* to use zigGIS.  Is it working?  Anyone need any help?
> >> >> >> >> Any constructive criticism?  ... I haven't heard a peep yet.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> Thanks.
> >> >> >> >> -Abe
> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> >> >> postgis-users mailing list
> >> >> >> >> postgis-users at postgis.refractions.net
> >> >> >> >> http://postgis.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/postgis-users
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > --
> >> >> >> > View this message in context:
> >> >> >> >
> >> http://www.nabble.com/zigGIS-Usage-Experiences-tf696976.html#a75632
> >> >> >> > 76 Sent from the PostGIS - User mailing list archive at
> >> Nabble.com.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> >> >> > postgis-users mailing list
> >> >> >> > postgis-users at postgis.refractions.net
> >> >> >> > http://postgis.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/postgis-users
> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> >> >> > postgis-users mailing list
> >> >> >> > postgis-users at postgis.refractions.net
> >> >> >> > http://postgis.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/postgis-users
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> --
> >> >> >> View this message in context:
> >> >> >>
> >> http://www.nabble.com/zigGIS-Usage-Experiences-tf696976.html#a7585042
> >> >> >> Sent from the PostGIS - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> >> postgis-users mailing list
> >> >> >> postgis-users at postgis.refractions.net
> >> >> >> http://postgis.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/postgis-users
> >> >> >>
> >> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> >> > postgis-users mailing list
> >> >> > postgis-users at postgis.refractions.net
> >> >> > http://postgis.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/postgis-users
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> View this message in context:
> >> >> http://www.nabble.com/zigGIS-Usage-Experiences-tf696976.html#a7585331
> >> >> Sent from the PostGIS - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> postgis-users mailing list
> >> >> postgis-users at postgis.refractions.net
> >> >> http://postgis.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/postgis-users
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> postgis-users mailing list
> >> >> postgis-users at postgis.refractions.net
> >> >> http://postgis.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/postgis-users
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> postgis-users mailing list
> >> >> postgis-users at postgis.refractions.net
> >> >> http://postgis.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/postgis-users
> >> >>
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > postgis-users mailing list
> >> > postgis-users at postgis.refractions.net
> >> > http://postgis.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/postgis-users
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> --
> >> View this message in context:
> >> http://www.nabble.com/zigGIS-Usage-Experiences-tf696976.html#a7595753
> >> Sent from the PostGIS - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> postgis-users mailing list
> >> postgis-users at postgis.refractions.net
> >> http://postgis.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/postgis-users
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > postgis-users mailing list
> > postgis-users at postgis.refractions.net
> > http://postgis.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/postgis-users
> >
> >
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/zigGIS-Usage-Experiences-tf696976.html#a7600741
> Sent from the PostGIS - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> postgis-users mailing list
> postgis-users at postgis.refractions.net
> http://postgis.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/postgis-users
>