[postgis-users] A bit off topic, but FOSS GIS clients...

Thu Jan 3 01:51:58 PST 2008

dnrg schreef:
> This is off-topic. But since many use
> PostGIS/PostgreSQL as a spatial database backend, I
> thought people here may be best equipped to comment. I
> couldn't be the only one wondering about this.
>
> Quantum GIS is painfully slow rendering and searching
> through data in moderately sized, and evidently even
> tiny, shapefiles. That's *with* scale-dependent
> display set to reasonable values.
>   
I disagree on this. For us QGIS works at acceptable speed, even when the 
tables in postGIS are in edit mode. The safety of multi-user is a big 
plus compared to working with shapefiles directly. If you optimize your 
tables, the SRID and the server itself, you might get acceptable results.
> Seems QGIS is a decade or more behind even ArcView 3.2
> (still a great product after all these years) with
> regard to performance and basic (non-OGC and web)
> functionality.
>   
This I agree, but it is a matter of what you want to do. A lot of the 
arcView functionallity is also available on postGIS directly through 
spatial functions. It takes knowledge of the functions and has no 
graphical interface, but for us it often does the trick. What we cannot 
achieve through qGIS, we build into the database.
> Will importing the shapefiles into PostgreSQL solve
> the data access speed issues? Is the rendering engine
> itself problematic, or is the slowness a function of
> its inability to work efficiently with shapefiles?
>   
That might be one solution. Another thing you might consider is using 
qGIS in conjunction with OpenJump. Both work differently with postGIS 
databases and both have their pro's and cons. When it comes to editing 
feature geometry with snap functions, we often use openJump.
> I find QGIS simply unusable when working with
> shapefiles. Considering many GIS novices still work
> with shapefiles, I'm guessing the lack of
> an efficient FOSS GIS client will stall wider adoption
> of FOSS GIS.
>   
Try OpenJump, their geometry functions are indeed better then the ones 
in qGIS.
> Am I mistaken, or is FOSS GIS weakest when it comes to
> the non-web based GIS client arena?
>   
I think you are. Knowing what you want to achieve is essential and 
sometimes it is a matter of compromise. The dynamic character of FOSS 
GIS gives you the wonderful option to have your wishes implemented at 
low cost. Try contacting the developers and clearly state your wishes. 
You might be suprized at the speed at which your wish gets implemented! 
This is a big plus compared to the stirdyness off getting your wishes 
into the ESRI products..
> I seriously want to like QGIS, but am having a tough
> time of that presently. Are there other FOSS GIS
> clients that can access, search through, and render
> shapefile data better than QGIS? I'm presuming,
> perhaps falsely, that uDig is no better in
> non-RDBMS-based spatial data access/render
> performance.
>   
gvSIG, OpenJump, uDig, MapWindow
> Finally, have the QGIS, uDig, and other folks
> considered joining forces to create a killer GIS
> client? I find it depressing to see many different
> fiefdoms in the FOSS community generally. If several
> projects merged, it could lead to one heck of a FOSS
> software product rather than, perhaps, several
> marginal ones.
>   
This is indeed an excellent point! I have often wondered about this 
myself! Since it is all open, it would indeed be better to join forces, 
halt projects with less success and create one big killer GIS engine!
> One of the beauties of FOSS is that anyone with a
> vision can start a project and attempt to create
> something better than already exists. However, that
> vision may be realized, if ever, at a glacial pace. I
> myself am impatient, and am not a software developer.
> But if I was a developer, I would want to find the
> best FOSS GIS client out there and focus efforts on
> it.
>   
Sometimes it is better to invest in existing projects rather than start 
a new one. I always choose that road. Try to get functionallity adapted 
in existing projects.
> Seems to me if people joined forces more often and
> consolidated projects, QGIS, for instance, might not
> still be choking trying to access, search, and render
> moderately sized shapefiles after 5 years of
> development.
>
> So what gives? At conferences like FOSS4G, is there
> ever talk of project consolidation? If not, why not? I
> tend to think of all the development hours spent on,
> say, 8 FOSS GIS clients, wasted, when, if
> there was focus, 1 or 2 FOSS GIS clients could really
> kick some butt and give commercial products real
> competition.
>
> Why doesn't project consolidation happen often--or not
> often enough? Hurt feelings? Unwillingness to judge
> one product over another?
>
> Have there been no systematic attempts by the
> community to seriously assess what projects are out
> there, find 1 or 2 best of breeds, then encourage the
> focus of development on those?
>
> I appreciate all the work that's been done on QGIS,
> uDig, and others. But I personally would love to see
> more consolidation so we make larger, quicker strides.
>   
I strongly agree. Don't forget that FOSS GIS is still young! We have to 
nurse our "babies" instead of creating new ones. FOSS GIS needs 
ambassadors that are patient enough to understand that things take time 
and strive to join forces.
> Final question--if I import large shapefiles into
> PostgreSQL/PostGIS, and use QGIS or uDig, will my
> speed  and usability gripes be extinguished? Honestly
> can't ever imagine using the latest QGIS with
> shapefiles for more than 10 minutes without wanting
> immediately to uninstall it.
>   
A simple sample: we have a large parcel table (10.000 records) that is 
continuously updated from smaller child tables that are geographically 
appart (about 500 records each). So, one small table per community for 
editing, one big country-wide table for viewing through webclients. A 
construction of triggers responds to updates, delete and new records and 
checks restrictions. Indices and mapserver make the big table very fast!

And the smaller table are extremely flexible and fast when editing.
>
>
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>   

-- 

Milo van der Linden
skype: milovanderlinden <skype:milovanderlinden?add>
mlinden at zeelandnet.nl <mailto:mlinden at zeelandnet.nl>
milovanderlinden at gmail.com <mailto:milovanderlinden at gmail.com>
milo at 3dsite.nl <mailto:milo at 3dsite.nl>
http://www.3dsite.nl

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