[postgis-users] Question

Tue Oct 13 18:11:40 PDT 2009

Niklaus,

I have found, over the years, that the Oracle Spatial team is less willing to listen to small users than its own internal business units or large corporate customers.

For example, the performance of the Oracle Spatial geoprocessing functions has been poor for years (and of course I have said so both publicly and privately to members of the development team) but nothing gets done. Now that is not the case for PostGIS though I suspect Paul would have liked the new STRTree based
ST_Union aggregate operator had come out years ago (I would kill for that speed in the relevant Oracle aggregate operators eg SDO_AGGR_UNION). From my perspective this new function responds directly to user needs and helps users, consultants and developers by giving them the in-database tools they can choose to use (or not) to implement solutions.

This sort of responsiveness is part and parcel of the open source model.

regards
Simon
On Tue, 13 Oct 2009 19:48:10 +1100, <nicklas.aven at jordogskog.no> wrote:

> Simon Great, just a complementing comment.What I mean is that those examples shows in a good way that the transparancy open source gives, means a lot in itself.
> It gives the possibility of new users to contribute with ideas from looking at the code and it makes it easier for postgresql-postgis to get a good interaction. As I imagine the road from a problem in postgis to a solution i postgresql would have been quite long and windling in a closed source environment where Paul and Tom would have to hide their codes from each other, only discussing the API:s. In that case Oracle would have a great point in controling the whole chain. But that benefit is not that clear when comparing to an open source system chain. I guess this is all worn out arguments in the open source world, but important to remember I think. The open source in it self gives a strength to the system and contributes to a more flexible and exciting development (development in a wider perspective). /Nicklas
> 2009-10-13 Simon Greener wrote:
>
> Niklaus,
>>
>> Thanks for your observations and comments.
>>
>> There are a few things in your email but the main thing I take home, as I have done via my interaction with this list, is that the developers of the product (PostGIS) are more involved in the user community than the Oracle equivalents specifically in being able to do something - directly - about the problems presented (not that PostGIS is not an official part of PostgreSQL as against Oracle). It is not that I say the Oracle team are not involved in their own forum, it is just that, I think, there is a tangible difference between what they can or are willing to do than their open source competitors.
>>
>> I will say so in a slide or two but it will be a minor aspect of my talk.
>>
>> Again, thanks very much for taking the time ot comment.
>>
>> regards
>> Simon
>> On Tue, 13 Oct 2009 17:52:23 +1100,wrote:
>>
>>> Hallo I think it couldn't be held high enough in this comparasion that postgis is an open source project (and I guess that's what they want to hear at FOSS4G :-) ). two examples The 13 of aug Jose Carlos asked a question about strange performance when using indexes in a particular situation.http://postgis.refractions.net/pipermail/postgis-users/2009-August/024238.html After that we can all follow the discussions on the users and development lists and I realise myself that this is a problem I have had too without seeing it. Paul Ramsey and Tom Lane finds how to solve the problem in postgresql and 2009-09-09 the solution is released in postgresql 8.4.1. I think that is very impressive. A problem occurs in postgis and less than a month later the solution is released in postgresql. Even if the release of 8.4.1 wouldn't have been that close, Tom committed the solution about one week Ithink after Jose Carlos first message. So from that day it was possible for anyone to use it.
>> I!
>>> guess this was a special case, but worth mentioning. the second example is about my own experiance with postgis.In january I asked about the same question on this list as Juergen Lorenz Simon did yesterday. the post from january:http://postgis.refractions.net/pipermail/postgis-users/2009-February/022699.html I had about the same answer of solution then as Regina now suggests for postgis 1.4http://postgis.refractions.net/pipermail/postgis-users/2009-October/024838.html Since this is an open source project I downloaded the source and gave it a try. With some quite small modifications I could get the functionality I requested with great help and peptalk from the community (read Regina). And as the GPL license request I am happy to deliver it back as a suggestion for the future release.It was no big or advanced modification but it meant a lot to me, both for functionality and for thesatisfaction of having managed it. ThanksNicklas
>>> 2009-10-13 Simon Greener wrote:
>>>
>>> Folks,
>>>>
>>>> I am giving a talk at FOSS4G in Sydney next week. That talk's title and abstract are:
>>>>
>>>> ==================================================================
>>>> Title: PostGIS and Oracle Spatial
>>>> Abstract:
>>>> Oracle Spatial and PostGIS are two of the most mature implementations of a spatial type system for their relevant host databases.
>>>>
>>>> With Postgres increasing in strength, and offshoot EnterpriseDB aiming to convert businesses running Oracle to EnterpriseDB/Postgres, the question of the relative merits of each of the spatial implementations arises.
>>>>
>>>> This talk will attempt to provide the audience with an understanding of the relative strengths and weaknesses of the two implementations so that they can feel they have some useful information which might aid decision making for new installations or conversions.
>>>> ==================================================================
>>>>
>>>> While I already have quite a bit of material I thought I would ask the PostGIS community for suggestions as to what they would like covered if they were attending FOSS4G. Nothing worse than attending a presentation and, at the end, saying to youself that it was not what you expected and that nothing much was of use.
>>>>
>>>> So, what sorts of things do you think should be covered?
>>>>
>>>> regards
>>>> SImon
>>>> --
>>>> SpatialDB Advice and Design, Solutions Architecture and Programming,
>>>> Oracle Database 10g Administrator Certified Associate; Oracle Database 10g SQL Certified Professional
>>>> Oracle Spatial, SQL Server, PostGIS, MySQL, ArcSDE, Manifold GIS, FME, Radius Topology and Studio Specialist.
>>>> 39 Cliff View Drive, Allens Rivulet, 7150, Tasmania, Australia.
>>>> Website: www.spatialdbadvisor.com
>>>> Email: simon at spatialdbadvisor.com
>>>> Voice: +61 362 396397
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>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> SpatialDB Advice and Design, Solutions Architecture and Programming,
>> Oracle Database 10g Administrator Certified Associate; Oracle Database 10g SQL Certified Professional
>> Oracle Spatial, SQL Server, PostGIS, MySQL, ArcSDE, Manifold GIS, FME, Radius Topology and Studio Specialist.
>> 39 Cliff View Drive, Allens Rivulet, 7150, Tasmania, Australia.
>> Website: www.spatialdbadvisor.com
>> Email: simon at spatialdbadvisor.com
>> Voice: +61 362 396397
>> Mobile: +61 418 396391
>> Skype: sggreener
>> Longitude: 147.20515 (147° 12' 18" E)
>> Latitude: -43.01530 (43° 00' 55" S)
>> GeoHash: r22em9r98wg
>> NAC:W80CK 7SWP3
>> _______________________________________________
>> postgis-users mailing list
>> postgis-users at postgis.refractions.net
>> http://postgis.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/postgis-users
>>
>>

-- 
SpatialDB Advice and Design, Solutions Architecture and Programming,
Oracle Database 10g Administrator Certified Associate; Oracle Database 10g SQL Certified Professional
Oracle Spatial, SQL Server, PostGIS, MySQL, ArcSDE, Manifold GIS, FME, Radius Topology and Studio Specialist.
39 Cliff View Drive, Allens Rivulet, 7150, Tasmania, Australia.
Website: www.spatialdbadvisor.com
   Email: simon at spatialdbadvisor.com
   Voice: +61 362 396397
Mobile: +61 418 396391
Skype: sggreener
Longitude: 147.20515 (147° 12' 18" E)
Latitude: -43.01530 (43° 00' 55" S)
GeoHash: r22em9r98wg
NAC:W80CK 7SWP3