[Qgis-community-team] [Qgis-tr] Issues with translation

Wed Mar 30 08:09:45 PDT 2022

Hi Harrissou,

I haven't replied yet, so thank you very much for your detailed answers!

Some things were new to me and will help us in our work. But it has also 
become clear that the causes of problems can be very different and that 
the best way is to report them or ask for help.

It has also become clear that more support is needed, not only with 
translations, but also with english documentation ...

I hope to be able to come to the Contributor Meeting in 
's-Hertogenbosch, when it takes place. Documentation is supposed to be a 
topic there and improvements can be discussed.

Greetings,
Jörn

Am 14.03.2022 um 12:05 schrieb DelazJ:
> Hi Jörn,
> Thanks for the compilation. My reply below is a mix of
> translator/transifex manager/doc coordinator hat so bear with me if I
> don't directly provide tips you expect or I instead move the question
> to another level. Some issues are indeed inherent to Transifex (or at
> least to its free version we are using) and others are QGIS
> community/organization's. It's also not always clear to me whether the
> issue you report concerns docs or desktop so a mix of replies.
>
> Le 7 mars 2022 14:47:30 GMT+01:00, "Jörn Gutzeit"
> <j.gutzeit at umwelt-it.de> a écrit :
>> Transifex Webtranslation page for QGIS is on https://www.transifex.com/qgis/
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> as written [1], I did a small survey of german translators and there
>> problems. It refers not only to Transifex but also to other processes
>> and structures. We hope that perhaps other translator groups can help us
>> with experience and tips:
>>
>>
>> - Some people find it difficult to get started with Transifex. Is there
>> any experience if workshops can help to get started? Is there perhaps
>> already a video tutorial (that could be translated or subtitled)?
>>
> I don't know but maybe their doc can be a starting point [0]?
> What I personally miss is a visible place where we can actually
> instruct people how to do translations, to avoid build issues, the
> rules to respect (which at some point may depend on languages but
> ...).
>
>> - It is not possible to preview the translation, e.g. to identify errors
>> in the formatting syntax. Is there an editor or another way to do this?
>> Building the doc on their own system does not seem to be an option for
>> everyone.
>>
> No editor I'm aware of. Transifex provides a "Transifex Live" service
> to translate directly in the HTML build docs interface, allowing to
> preview/apply directly, in live. I tested it last year for docs and it
> looked quite complicated to setup (a lot of manual work for
> administrators afaics) and it turned out to be a paid service. Can't
> understand how I could have access to it :D.
> And no, unlike weblate e.g., Transifex does not provide advanced
> checks on translated strings. You have parenthesis count or numeric
> value missing checks but not many more.
>
>> - It happens that "dead" or duplicate resources appear in Transifex, so
>> it is sometimes unclear what actually needs to be translated. How can
>> you find out what actually appears in the manual, what needs to be
>> translated?
>>
> Is this about the docs or the code? Do you have any examples, please?
>
> Speaking of the docs, we translate one version at a time and
> archived/closed the previous so they wouldn't interfere with the new
> release. Furthermore, since 3.16, we are relying on a transifex/github
> action [1] [2] that every Wednesday pushes English string to
> transifex.
>
> About QGIS Desktop translation, the process is a bit different. But as
> long as someone reports that there is an old release resource still
> ON, it gets shut quickly afaics. So it's also up to translators to
> report to admins (that may forget these manual steps).
> BTW, @Jürgen E. Fischer can you please remove 3.16 and 3.20 resources
> from the Desktop project? Thanks.
>
>> - You have to keep the structure of the english original, even if it is
>> incomplete or out of date, so you cannot delete or add a paragraph. Are
>> there any ideas on how to solve this?
>>
> I don't think these are all impossible... But the solution I can
> suggest is "Fix it in the source!". That is the most sustainable
> solution. It works for you and for the rest of the community.
> <mylife>I started contributing to QGIS as translator, and was
> regularly reporting issues I found in original strings, as a Transifex
> comment in the right side panel. The recurring reply I got from our
> coordinator (hello Yves) was "Thanks. But report in docs/code repo". I
> followed his advice and got things fixed until I realized one day that
> it was easier/faster to fix some issues than reporting them.</mylife>
>
>> - We have not found a way to get a message when a translation is reset
>> to english (because there have been changes made). So you don't notice
>> that something in an already translated part is displayed in English
>> again. How do others solve this problem?
>>
> Maybe there's an individual option to get notification [3]. But would
> that not be really noisy?
> I'm not sure there's an history of each string: the new string is
> added and the no longer available one is "removed" (though kept in Tx
> memory and reused as suggestion). No inheritance between them.
> Speaking of the docs, the best way to fix this is to avoid strings
> modification after the version is open to translation. Meaning that
> the docs is complete enough at that time and no changes are allowed
> unless very buggy. I'm afraid this won't be the case for 3.22 but if
> WE manage correctly, maybe the next LTR could be fine.
>
>> - It sometimes happens that translations are not displayed at all or
>> only after a long time. A current example: 14.1 The Vector Properties
>> Dialogue: translated on 25.01.2022, not yet online. Maybe there are
>> errors, but how can you find out?
> Errors do not prevent translation display. We build and show the
> erroneous translation so that translators can fix them.
> The issue you are seeing here is due to a Transifex config we setup,
> that automatically pulls translation when it is 100% translated [4] so
> until the file is fully translated, no translation is pulled back.
> Nasty, I know. To solve this, I regularly do a manual pull and commit
> to the docs repo. And given that this is also unsustainable, I tried
> to write a github action to regularly do the pull [5], it works
> locally but not on github and none of my calls for help did get any
> attention so... until that day there's unfortunately a risk to display
> strings in English despite translated in Tx.
> Should be fixed now for most of the languages. Still faced some quirks
> with Transifex server but 3.22 docs in Tx is anyway planned for very
> soon.
>> One of the main problems seems to be that already translated paragraphs
>> are reset to English (and there is no message about it). It looks like
>> the German translation could be quite a bit further by just restoring
>> the lost translations (we had previously assumed that this only happened
>> with changes, but if I understand correctly, there are other problems as
>> well [2]).
>> Is there any idea how to solve this problem?
> Hmmm.. I'm not anymore really sure of this "pluralization"-strings
> issue you are referring to. I gave a look later to the strings and
> could find many translated strings older than the 3.24 release day
> [6]. So Transifex didn't wipe all the strings that were of
> pluralization form when the new ones were pushed in. I can't tell what
> happened that day but I'm not sure that translations just vanish from
> time to time, nor if they really vanished that day. Could there be
> that the so-called "lost" strings were duplicate strings instead? Most
> of the time, translations are lost because the English strings change.
> Duplicate text in another file also may not have the translation
> connected (hence we think they are lost - maybe there's a setting to
> activate somewhere to have it do this automatically/better?)
>
> Sorry for being long.
>
> Regards,
> Harrissou
>
> [0] https://docs.transifex.com/translation/translating-with-the-web-editor
> [1] https://github.com/qgis/QGIS-Documentation/blob/master/.github/workflows/pofiles.yml
> [2] https://github.com/qgis/QGIS-Documentation#translating
> [3] https://www.transifex.com/user/settings/notices/
> [4] https://docs.transifex.com/transifex-github-integrations/github-tx-ui#linking-a-specific-project-with-a-github-repository
> [5] https://github.com/DelazJ/QGIS-Documentation/blob/minimizeTranslations/.github/workflows/pull_minimized_translations.yml
> [6] https://www.transifex.com/qgis/QGIS/translate/#de/qgis-application/114102351?q=text%3A%25n+translated_before%3A2022-02-18
> - just replace the language code
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>> Greetings,
>> Jörn
>>
>> [1] https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/qgis-tr/2022-February/001307.html
>> [2] „Reoccuring strings“
>> https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/qgis-tr/2022-February/001299.html
>>
>> --
>> Jörn Gutzeit Umwelt IT
>> Umweltdatenbearbeitung
>> Lothringerstraße 68
>> 52070 Aachen
>> 0176 - 43 03 93 31
>> www.umwelt-it.de
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> QGIS-Translators mailing list
>> Qgis-tr at lists.osgeo.org
>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-tr

-- 
Jörn Gutzeit Umwelt IT
Umweltdatenbearbeitung
Lothringerstraße 68
52070 Aachen
0176 - 43 03 93 31
www.umwelt-it.de