[Qgis-developer] 'File' versus 'Project'

Wed Apr 24 09:18:23 PDT 2013

Hi Nathan,

Here are both of your example programs on OS X. You will see that the menu observes the OS X HIGs with a File and Edit menu item in the main menubar of the OS for both of these applications.

http://imgur.com/NaxyYMi

Adding changes to Edit to the list of desired updates to the GUI takes this even further afield from standard interface design for OS X. I think you will be disenfranchising one of the supported operating systems with these changes and that it will make more sense to keep the File and Edit layout, in addition to cleaning up some of the other OS X gui issues, like having the "Analysis" menu item from plugins showing up between the Window and Help menu items.

Regards,
John

On Apr 24, 2013, at 8:24 AM, Nathan Woodrow <madmanwoo at gmail.com> wrote:

> William,
> 
> I can understand the concern, it was the same thing that went though my mind when I change the composer menu. In the end most people didn't care, or adapted.   There are a lot of applications that don't use a file menu and work quite well, I would say better in fact.
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/t0QZeJK.png Chrome and Firefox
> http://images.autodesk.com/adsk/images/autocad_context_sensitive_presspull_large_900x577.jpg AutoCAD
> 
> Regarding the Edit menu, you will notice that the tools in there are not related to text or documents they only refer to the current feature, or selection of features.  If you have a dialog open you can't use that menu, unless the dialog is non model and in that case still doesn't help you as there are no tools to use on text.
> 
> If the Edit menu is to stay, that is fine however I would suggest a new menu called Feature/s which houses all the current tools in the edit menu minus the Undo/Redo and Copy/Paste Feature.
> 
> Regards,
> Nathan
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 12:17 AM, William Kyngesburye <woklist at kyngchaos.com> wrote:
> Well, my original reaction when I saw the File->Project change was that it's very non-standard, and may cause more cofusion than it's worth.  Certainly on OS X, maybe on other systems.
> 
> People know what the "File" menu means, even if the main object of an application is a "project", or video or email or whatever.
> 
> Same goes for the "Edit" menu.  And it's standard position is right next to the File menu.  Undo, Redo, Cut, Copy and Paste are the basics for the edit menu, and should work in dialog text boxes for copying and pasting text, as well as whatever document editing they may do.  Do not move Undo/Redo, more confusion.
> 
> I realize that this may be Mac-centric, but the OS X HI Guidelines seem to be generally followed or adapted on other systems, and these File and Edit menu changes are a bit radical.
> 
> On Apr 24, 2013, at 6:07 AM, Nathan Woodrow wrote:
> 
> > Ramon,
> >
> > I would agree with those points. In fact I think the menu structure as is doesn't make much sense and the Edit menu should be renamed to Feature/s.
> >
> > What does Edit mean:
> >
> >  - Edit Layer
> >  - Edit Feature
> >  - Edit Project
> >
> > If you look at all the tools in the Edit menu they are all related to the current feature or features.  The undo and redo actions should be moved to the layer menu.
> >
> > Here are my thoughts on the Layer menu:
> >
> > http://i.imgur.com/oYO55Qz.png
> >
> > Moving the Add xxx Layer to the project menu would mean you follow these actions when creating a new project:
> >
> > Project -> New
> > Project -> Add xxx Layer
> >
> > Change the style
> >
> > Layer -> Properties
> >
> > That is a more logical flow IMO then currently what is there.
> >
> > Thoughts?
> >
> > - Nathan
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 8:21 PM, Ramon Andiñach <custard at westnet.com.au> wrote:
> >
> > On 24/04/2013, at 05:55 , Ramon Andiñach wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > On 24/04/2013, at 04:28 , John C. Tull wrote:
> > >
> > >> Hi all,
> > >>
> > >> I was having some discussion on IRC today with Tim and Larry about the recent change to the menu in trunk. Before, the menu used "File" and that was changed to "Project". My position is that it does not seem Mac-like, whether or not a QGIS document resides in the filesystem as a .qgs file or if your "Project" is fed from a database, something apparently planned for the future of QGIS.
> > >>
> > >> I'd be interested in feedback from other Mac users on this. I'm flexible to the change, but wanted to vet this and see if anyone else had a strong opinion one way or the other. Please make it clear if you are a Mac OS X user or not.
> > >>
> > >> Thanks,
> > >> John
> > >
> > > Interesting. I'd say this is going to look as odd at home on my mac as at work on their windows box. No file menu - that's going to look very unfamiliar.
> > >
> > > That said, it's a good name. It does describe what's in there - those commands work on the project-file not a layer-file.
> > >
> > > -ramon.
> >
> > Ok. I've been standing at the bottom of a large-ish hole today, so if this sounds like a dumb idea that's my excuse.
> >
> > Could we move Layer across next to Project?
> >
> >
> > Some reasoning.
> > 1. If we're abandoning File in favour of Project, then there's possibly no reason to retain Edit next to it either. Other than historical ones.
> > 2. Project and Layer are largely about opening, closing, saving (and other similar things) files. Project files in one menu and Layers (vectors, rasters, DB, etc) in the other.
> > 3. Then you have a more logical progression from left to right about how to use QGIS. (Open stuff, change stuff)
> >
> > -ramon.
> > (OK, 1. is not so good, but it does open the door to ask questions!)
> >
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> -----
> William Kyngesburye <kyngchaos*at*kyngchaos*dot*com>
> http://www.kyngchaos.com/
> 
> "Mon Dieu! but they are all alike.  Cheating, murdering, lying, fighting, and all for things that the beasts of the jungle would not deign to possess - money to purchase the effeminate pleasures of weaklings.  And yet withal bound down by silly customs that make them slaves to their unhappy lot while firm in the belief that they be the lords of creation enjoying the only real pleasures of existence....
> 
> - the wisdom of Tarzan
> 
> 
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