[Qgis-user] Re: [Qgis-developer] Sponsoring Development.

Sun Jun 19 00:05:01 PDT 2011

hi all, i remember having coming across a website where you could say "i
pledge to give x money if other x peoples do the same". Unfortunately i
can't remember the url, but it might be an idea to solve the cost sharing
problem.
Ciao

Marco
www.bernawebdesign.ch
(sent from my mobile)
On 18 Jun 2011 15:13, "Carson Farmer" <carson.farmer at gmail.com> wrote:
> Just a quick thought, which is sort of based on the 'groupon' concept
> that appears to be quite popular at the moment:
>
> Say a user/group/company wants a feature/bug fix/whatever; they could
> nominate this work on the QGIS website, where developers could take a
> look (perhaps there could also be an automated email to the developers
> list or a separate list so developers don't have to manually check the
> page all the time). If a developer decided it was something they might
> like to work on, they could provide an estimate of cost, including the
> cost of a proper estimate. This would then be added to the nominated
> task on the website, and would open up the task for 'bidding', such
> that any similarly interested groups could offer up as much as they
> were wiling to offer (perhaps some minimum here could be established).
> Eventually, if the task was popular enough, the suggested cost would
> be reached, and at that stage the developer could begin development.
> If the minimum cost was not reached (perhaps within a certain time
> limit), then the task would be dropped from the page, and all parties
> who had initially 'bid' on the task would get their 'bid' back. This
> whole process is then quite open and transparent, and if users see
> that a task it close to reaching the desired cost, they might be more
> inclined to put forward that final bid to get it started!
> This suggestion still doesn't really address the issue of an initial
> estimate, but perhaps the initial estimate cost could be shouldered by
> the original nominating group/user?
>
> Just a thought,
>
> Carson
>
> On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 1:53 PM, Ramon Andinach <custard at westnet.com.au>
wrote:
>> Hello all (developers and non-developers both),
>> Consider this a reaction to "have you considered sponsoring development".
>From a non-developer. Who is still trying to understand how the sponsoring
development idea works.
>>
>> It is likely to be a bit long. If you have time, I'd appreciate it if you
could read and comment on the long version. If not, this is a short version:
>> 1. For me it would be easier to sponsor development, if I knew what it
would cost.
>> 2. Numbers of people are asking for the same features, and numbers of
people are saying they're small and can't afford development.
>>
>> I've had a bit of a conversation with Paolo, and now realise that 1. is a
chicken and egg situation, and hence awkward, but 2. could be helped by
making groups of people who want a feature to sponsor it.
>>
>> So I'm wondering, from those who've had experience;
>> a.) how does one get around, the "I'd like a cost estimate but the cost
estimate takes time and about half the work" problem?
>> b.) has anyone tried putting groups of sponsors together? If so, how did
it go?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----
>> This is the long version.
>> It's mostly what I'd been through with Paolo, but expanded a bit more so
my thought process is (hopefully) a bit clearer.[*]
>>
>> I'm attached to one of the many small companies that make use of QGIS. I
had thought that it would be good to provide support to QGIS, and I had been
thinking in the form of sponsoring development to go after either a few
annoying bugs or one or two features that I'd like. While I was thinking
about this a few thoughts occurred.
>> 1. For me, and I suspect many others, it would be very useful to be able
to go my boss and say, "I'd like us to support QGIS develop <a useful
feature>, and it will cost this much." ie, have a good estimate.[!]
>> 2. I'm also noticing;
>>  a. a number of features have been requested by a number of different
people. A good example of this is multi-column legends in the composer.[@]
>>  b. a number of different people have (essentially) said, "we're really
small and can't afford to sponsor development."
>>
>> I remember reading on one of the QGIS lists that many feature
developments were not as expensive as most people thought, I recall €2-300
being mentioned.[#]
>>
>> Somehow I've put these together and bits together and realised that if
there were 10 users who wanted <a useful feature> then suddenly they only
need to provide €20-30, which is much more manageable.
>>
>> I've asked Paolo for some thoughts and Paolo pointed out that:
>> 3. There have previously been problems with payment after the development
was done, and
>> 4. To get a really good estimate, this often costs about half the total
cost of the project so they may unwilling to work through to that point with
out some certainty of payment.
>>
>> ----
>> So from my non-developer stand point this makes 1. and 4. a problem. But
for the purposes of going forward, there are two ways of short-circuiting
this that might work:
>> 5. Developer takes initiative - to attract development, features wanting
sponsorship get worked to a point where an estimate of total cost can be
made. (Probably not viable - see [%])
>> 6. Users take initiative - For the purposes of getting a group of
sponsors running, start with an assumed cost, which can be refined later.
>>
>>
>> So, from the User Initiative end (6.) a work-flow might work like this:
>> 7. A feature is nominated for work. A bunch of people that want that
feature get together and work out the following:
>>  a. A minimal set of things the feature must do.
>>  b. A nominated lead for the group.
>>  c. A contribution that each member of the group makes, based on an
assumed cost. (Say €300).
>>  d. Decide on what to do if the development cost more than expected.
>>  e. Decide on what to do if the development costs less than expected.
>>
>> 8. Find a willing developer.
>>  a. Sound developer out on scope, and adjust according to what is
actually achievable.
>>
>> 9. Once, we have developer available and willing, then each member of the
group contributes at least half of their total commitment to a nominated
place. No development until money in bank.
>>  So, hypothetically, if there was a group with 10 members and a €300
project, then each contributes €15 now. This should be enough to make people
feel committed to seeing something out of the development.
>>
>> 10. From there, the group would need to be able to see progress. In my
industry it is normal to see weekly status reports from contractors doing
projects over more than a couple of weeks, and I'd like to see that happen.
Nothing fancy, just "this is what I did this week, this is what I'm going to
do next week, this is what's left to do," style of thing.
>>
>> 11. Then I suppose the group would need something they could test.
>>
>>
>> ----
>> If we can get to a point where there's a process that people thing might
work, then yes, I'm prepared to help trial it.
>>
>> Any thoughts?
>> Particularly I'm curious if there are thoughts on:
>> 1. Getting around the "a cost estimate makes it easier for me to get
funds" against "a good cost estimate is most of the work" problem.
>> 2. Viability of this idea.
>> 3. Thoughts on managing groups of sponsors.
>>
>>
>> -ramon.
>>
>> ______
>> [*] For the record, I was asking for advice, and we rapidly got to the
point where it was getting complex (as you can see) and Paolo suggested that
it be brought out on the the mailing list. Please don't think that this is a
final-ish suggestion.
>> [!] In my industry a good estimate is within about 10%. So, I'm not
expecting dollar perfect.
>> [@] I had heard that some of the Swiss users might be getting together on
this one, so this is just an example. On that thought, big swiss users or
little swiss users?
>> [#] but I can't find it, so I could be hallucinating. Either way, I'll
run with these numbers.
>> [%] Yes I do know there are a limited number of developers, who are
already over-loaded. If this way did happen, then the cost estimate would
include work to the point of estimate, work to finish (and I think it would
also be reasonable to include an "I'm taking the initiative" fee here too).
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> Carson J. Q. Farmer
> ISSP Doctoral Fellow
> National Centre for Geocomputation
> National University of Ireland, Maynooth,
> http://www.carsonfarmer.com/
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